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      02-19-2006, 04:14 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilbelcher
In my own opinion, I have to disagree with the earlier comment that the 330 has enough power (and I do use all the power of this type of car). It does have good HP, but no torque compared to the competition. And remember that HP is just a function of torque, and that torque is what delivers the kick in the pants at all RPMs that people crave. I currently drive the 320 td diesel (in switzerland, temporarily) which only has 125 HP, but more torque than the 330i with one less liter, at lower RPM. Of course its not directly comparable, but it does have more guts on the low end. I also had a G35 before moving to switzerland, and absolutely loved the low-end torque -- much better than the 330i. A smooth engine is wonderful when lolly-gagging through the gears on a sunday in the park, but I want low-end torque, and more of it. The BMW 3 liter engine is the best, most well-balanced engine, but why not further cement their lead by adding 50 ft/lbs of torque? Until then, I'm waiting for BMW to deliver torque that should be expected in this price range (meaning 330 price). Leave the 325 for people who don't care and don't use the power. I wish companies like Honda and BMW would stop being so conservative with their engine designs as far as torque vs HP designs. And of course BMW strives for the well-rounded, perfect driving machine (meaning great handling--and they are with no question the best), but why can't they deliver some torque to increase the fun factor??? The E90 increased the HP, but not the torque -- who are they fooling with today's competition? Bring the 335 turbo on, but don't charge more than $3k extra, or they are really pushing the value equation.

I agree 100%. There are some of us who think ther is no such thing as too much power! I for one loves the smooth BMW I-6 but it could use more torque and power. Whenever I drive my friends G35 I always whish for more torque in my car. Cant wait for the turbo. For those who hate the lag, to each his own. There will always be the 325, 328 and 330. Just dont feel bad when the 335 spools up and smoke you
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      02-19-2006, 04:15 PM   #134
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Damn it, i really wanted a DI 3.5L N/A
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      02-19-2006, 04:57 PM   #135
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Only from Hartge..


Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude
So it is for sure there will be no V8 engine for the non ///M 3ers?
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      02-19-2006, 06:26 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by amdmaxx
No doubts, Mr. Sr. Engineer..
Hemi is a pushrod, AMG engine is DOHC..

NOOOOO.....Ya think !
The blocks don't come from the same mold but but they share the same drafting tables......
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      02-19-2006, 06:48 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom
LOL..you're not serious? When you're starting in the low the 6 sec range to begin with .5 seconds is a world of difference.

Still, for those of us in the U.S., rumor is we will end up with a 3.5 liter instead of the bi-turbo 3.0.
I understand, but the 335 is needed in order to close the gap with the Lexus IS 350 and the new Infiniti (G3?) coming out this fall. Mid 5 times doesn't cut it with these cars - need to come in around 5.0 - 5.2 secs. Very disappointing.
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      02-19-2006, 06:54 PM   #138
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A mid-5 time from official BMW sources translates into low-5 time for car mags. And then there is the 335si...
I am not disappointed in the least. To the contrary, I am thrilled. Amped. Psyched.
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      02-19-2006, 06:59 PM   #139
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Stop dwelling on 0-60 times, guys. They don't mean much in the real world. A fast 0-60 time requires a hard clutch-burning, tire-smoking launch - or, in the case of automatics, a tranny fluid boiling brake-torque launch - how often do you do that to your own car?

5-60 (the "street start"), 0-100, and quarter mile trap speeds will give you a much better idea of how the car accelerates under normal conditions.

Take a look at the 80-120 km/h 5th gear pull quoted for the N54 powered car. 6.3 seconds is pretty damn fast - as fast as the E39 M5 (note that the E39 M5 is quoted at 5.4 sec for 0-100 km/h - compare to 5.7 for the 335). This thing has some serious torque and is going to be great to drive around town...it's also going to fit the definition of a "bahn burner," it'll just get better as the speeds get higher.
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      02-19-2006, 09:21 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
Stop dwelling on 0-60 times, guys. They don't mean much in the real world. A fast 0-60 time requires a hard clutch-burning, tire-smoking launch - or, in the case of automatics, a tranny fluid boiling brake-torque launch - how often do you do that to your own car?
hundreds of times
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      02-19-2006, 11:54 PM   #141
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the idea of turbo lag in a BMW even if it's 0.2 seconds turns me off of this engine, so does the idea of the "turbo" swell of power following a stomp on the gas pedal. what's the point of having such a great handling vehicle if you don't have PRECISE control over it's power. I'm so skeptical, only a test drive will change my mind.
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      02-20-2006, 12:27 AM   #142
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New 335 is 306 HP?? and Lexus IS350 is also 306? Obviously, BMW has felt the pressure from Lexus and decided to update its car and seems like this time BMW has decided to match Lexus in terms of HP. Lexus should be flattered.
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      02-20-2006, 02:13 AM   #143
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didn't SpeedFreak said something about no turbo engine?
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      02-20-2006, 05:51 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redse2000
New 335 is 306 HP?? and Lexus IS350 is also 306? Obviously, BMW has felt the pressure from Lexus and decided to update its car and seems like this time BMW has decided to match Lexus in terms of HP. Lexus should be flattered.
Just a slight correction:

BMW= 225kW / 306HP / 302hp
Lexus= 228kW / 310HP / 306hp

But mind US specific N54 engine could get different specifications - including power & torque output.
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      02-20-2006, 07:15 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redse2000
New 335 is 306 HP?? and Lexus IS350 is also 306? Obviously, BMW has felt the pressure from Lexus and decided to update its car and seems like this time BMW has decided to match Lexus in terms of HP. Lexus should be flattered.

Yeah, thats why they started developing this engine 3 years ago ...!
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      02-20-2006, 07:36 AM   #146
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....


Official & original BMW (issued by BMW australia, not BMW AG) info on Bi-Turbo engine - in English

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...ght-six-engine

Last edited by EnI; 02-20-2006 at 08:04 AM..
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      02-20-2006, 07:45 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
....


Official & original BMW info on Bi-Turbo engine - in English:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...ght-six-engine
Nice find..... my only gripe is they say it has Valvetronic and it definately does not! There is no servo in any of the pictures and the HPI press release you posted prior states there is no valvetronic!
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      02-20-2006, 08:02 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul
Nice find..... my only gripe is they say it has Valvetronic and it definately does not! There is no servo in any of the pictures and the HPI press release you posted prior states there is no valvetronic!
It's an info issued by BMW Australia.

I found that strange too. Original German info does not mention Valvetronic. Neither the English version of the original:

The highlight in BMW’s Engine Park in Geneva is a new power unit making
its world debut at the event: BMW is presenting the first straight-six power unit with biturbo technology, high-precision direct gasoline injection, and an
all-aluminium crankcase. Using this combination of cutting-edge features, BMW’s engineers are able to combine outstanding performance, exemplary running smoothness and a high standard of economy with one another
in a way never seen before. Developing maximum output of 225 kW/306 hp and peak torque of 400 Newton-metres or 295 lb-ft, this 3.0-litre power
unit is the new top-end engine within BMW’s wide range of six-cylinders.
A new top-of-the-range power unit featuring biturbo technology and direct gasoline injection will mark the highlight of BMW’s six-cylinder engine family in future. Developing maximum output of 225 kW/306 hp and peak torque of 400 Newton-metres or 295 lb-ft, this highly innovative new engine fulfils the greatest demands also in terms of spontaneous and superior power. As the first straight-six with biturbo technology, high-precision fuel injection and an all-aluminium crankcase, this new highlight in engine technology offers
a standard of responsiveness never seen before with a turbocharged engine as well as superior torque and pulling force all the way to the engine’s highest speeds. And at the same time this new turbocharged power unit comes
with the supreme smoothness and refinement so characteristic of BMW’s straight-six engines.
The particular efficiency and all-round economy combined with this supreme output and performance is attributable to BMW’s high-precision fuel injection, the latest generation of direct gasoline injection by BMW making a significant contribution to the all-round economy of this trendsetting engine.
So now, introducing this combination, BMW’s engineers are writing a new and particularly attractive chapter in the history of turbocharged power units
100 years after the invention of the turbocharged engine.
Proven foundation: the straight-six power unit.
Introducing this new turbocharger technology, BMW is meeting the demand for extra power in both a thrilling and highly efficient manner. Particularly with the concept chosen by BMW, turbocharger technology is simply ideal to maintain the proven drive qualities of the engine and open up new highlights. The foundation for all this is laid by BMW’s current generation of straight-six power units displacing 3.0 litres and developing maximum output of 195 kW/265 hp and thus offering a potential quite outstanding for a normal aspiration engine. Now, to generate even more power and, in particular, torque, BMW is adding biturbo technology to this excellent starting point. Compared with the proven 3.0-litre normal aspiration engine, biturbo technology increases overall output by approximately 15 and peak torque by an even more impressive 30 per cent.
The result is clear: maximum output of 225 kW/306 hp and peak torque of
400 Newton-metres or 295 lb-ft. which, on the road, means outstanding
thrust and driving power all the way up from low engine speeds. And what this
means in practice BMW’s engine development specialists have already

calculated, taking the BMW 3 Series Sedan as an example: The biturbo version would accelerate from 0–100 km/h more than half a second faster,
with acceleration from 80–120 km/h (50–75 mph) in the second-highest gear improving from 8.2 seconds in the most powerful normal-aspiration version, the BMW 330i, to just 6.3 seconds in such a new model.
The only way to achieve such an increase in power and performance with
a normal-aspiration engine would be to significantly increase engine size, which would also mean a corresponding increase in weight and corresponding effects on the car’s overall balance.
By contrast, the combination of turbocharger technology with high-precision gasoline injection is a particularly efficient way to meet even greater demands in terms of output and torque. And for comparison, the new straight-six biturbo weighs about 70 kilos or 158 lb less than an approximately equally powerful eight-cylinder normal-aspiration engine displacing 4.0 litres. A further essential point is that the power unit equipped with high-precision fuel injection
offers about 10 per cent lower fuel consumption than an equally powerful turbocharged engine with manifold injection.
Apart from its low weight and fuel economy quite superior in its class, the new biturbo is able to offer yet another particular quality feature so typical of a BMW straight-six: This is supreme smoothness and refinement, precisely the virtue which has made BMW’s straight-six power units the benchmark for refined drive technology acknowledged the world over. Indeed, right from the start the specific arrangement of the cylinders gives the engine perfect balance in terms of free mass forces, avoiding vibrations even at high engine speeds. A further important point is that this turbocharged version of BMW’s six-cylinder comes with the same extra-light camshafts as on the normal aspiration engine, variable, double-VANOS camshaft adjustment, as well as an electrically driven coolant pump operating only as required (that is as a function of current
cooling requirements).
The turbo “gap” – a thing of the past .
Developing this highly innovative power unit, BMW’s engineers have also succeeded in eliminating the former disadvantages of turbocharged engines attributable to their concept and design principle. Hence, BMW’s
new turbocharged six-cylinder is absolutely free of some not so desirable characteristics so typical of turbocharged engines to this very day:
There is not the slightest delay in the development of power and thrust, and at the same time the engine does not have the same high fuel consumption
as a conventional turbocharged power unit.

Particularly the biturbo concept ensures a significant improvement of spontaneous power, two smaller turbochargers each supplying three cylinders with compressed air, instead of just one big turbocharger for all cylinders together. An essential advantage of these turbochargers is their lower inertia, even the slightest pressure exerted by the driver on the gas pedal leading to
an immediate surge of power and performance. In other words, the turbo “gap” so typical of turbocharged engines so far – the time-lag until the turbocharger starts to build up power – is no longer perceptible. On the road, therefore, this new turbocharged engine has virtually the same power and performance characteristics as a much larger normal-aspiration power unit: The 3.0-litre develops its impressive torque of 400 Newton-metres or 295 lb-ft without any noticeable delay consistently all the way from 1,500–5,800 rpm. And from there the engine continues to rev up smoothly all the way to 7,000 rpm,
offering the driver a particularly superior standard of dynamic performance for accelerating all-out in superior, relaxed style.
Double progress: high power, high efficiency.
To combine a fascinating driving experience with up-to-date fuel economy, BMW has developed the world’s first straight-six gasoline engine with biturbo technology, direct gasoline injection, and an all-aluminium crankcase.
From the start, the turbochargers make an important contribution to the reduction of fuel consumption, with the turbines made of high heat-resistant special steel withstanding temperatures of up to 1,050 °C or 1,920 °F and therefore not requiring the cooling effect of extra air flow. Particularly under full load, this means a significant decrease in fuel consumption.
The key function serving to maximise fuel economy is however BMW’s high-precision fuel injection. Indeed, this new generation of direct fuel injection technology fulfils all expectations made in practice in terms of superior economy, without making any concessions in terms of dynamic performance and driving qualities. High-precision fuel injection allows even more exact dosage of fuel as well as a higher compression ratio – ideal conditions for increasing engine efficiency and significantly reducing fuel consumption.
All this is made possible by the central position of the piezo-injector between the valves. Fitted in this position, the innovative injector opening to the
outside is able to distribute fuel in a conical burst ensuring particularly smooth distribution of fuel within the combustion chamber.
Developing this new straight-six with biturbo technology, BMW is opening
up a new chapter with an engine principle basically quite old: Only recently, the turbocharged engine celebrated its 100th anniversary, with turbocharger technology registered for a patent by Swiss engineer Alfred Büchi in November

1905 having played a significant role for decades particularly in boosting the output of marine and aircraft engines. It was only much later that manufacturers started building cars with turbocharger technology, the first production car to feature this technology in Europe being the BMW 2002 turbo back in 1973.
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      02-20-2006, 09:11 AM   #149
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So,could you tell me cause I dont understand something...In press release there is only mentioned 3.0 turbo/306hp engine, there is nothing about 330hp or 3.5L, so where's the real info about that???Where did you get this???
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      02-20-2006, 09:51 AM   #150
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
.......
Ok, what are these N53??? With direct injection, but will they be sold with N52 both?? Or is it some kind of next generation of these engines???? And how many hp would it has?
sorry4myEnglish
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      02-20-2006, 10:00 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtomczak23
So,could you tell me cause I dont understand something...In press release there is only mentioned 3.0 turbo/306hp engine, there is nothing about 330hp or 3.5L, so where's the real info about that???Where did you get this???
There is no 3.5l as of yet... the badging, naming of the model has nothing to do with liters of displacement much anymore. More of a marketing technique. In the US for example the 325 and 330 both share a 3.0l displacement. Hope that Helps. It is more about model positioning.Best of luck!
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      02-20-2006, 12:28 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
the idea of turbo lag in a BMW even if it's 0.2 seconds turns me off of this engine, so does the idea of the "turbo" swell of power following a stomp on the gas pedal. what's the point of having such a great handling vehicle if you don't have PRECISE control over it's power. I'm so skeptical, only a test drive will change my mind.
dk17k, who's that girl in your signature? Mama mia... she is hot the way she bends down.
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      02-20-2006, 12:35 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
the idea of turbo lag in a BMW even if it's 0.2 seconds turns me off of this engine, so does the idea of the "turbo" swell of power following a stomp on the gas pedal. what's the point of having such a great handling vehicle if you don't have PRECISE control over it's power. I'm so skeptical, only a test drive will change my mind.
Supposedly ZERO lag...sounds like some excitable marketing dude wrote the below though...

A further traditional turbo-engine wrinkle has been ironed out by BMW engineers: turbo lag. In the new engine, this has been completely removed, thanks to low inertia turbochargers. The driver need only brush the accelerator pedal to receive an immediate surge of power and performance, as the engine delivers an electrifying response.
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      02-20-2006, 06:14 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1
Supposedly ZERO lag...sounds like some excitable marketing dude wrote the below though...

A further traditional turbo-engine wrinkle has been ironed out by BMW engineers: turbo lag. In the new engine, this has been completely removed, thanks to low inertia turbochargers. The driver need only brush the accelerator pedal to receive an immediate surge of power and performance, as the engine delivers an electrifying response.
Yep. That's an article about new engine, done by BMW Australia PR department. It's not a text issued by BMW AG.
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