[Lewiss]

Originally Posted by zltm089

Were you in "M" or manual mode as they call it?

if yes, then

that's my point.....DCT doesn't provide that much control of the gears then.

interesting that it "allowed" you to cruise in 7th gear though....

in a normal auto 335i, when i select 6th gear and if the speed is not "high" enough, it will revert back to 4th or 5th.

Nope, just normal 'D' mode, heres a crappy video of it.

song choice was chance.

[zltm089]

thanks for posting!...

would be very interested to see when you're in M mode!

and also, in the video looks like you were at 40mph plus.

[Lewiss]

Originally Posted by zltm089

thanks for posting!...

would be very interested to see when you're in M mode!

and also, in the video looks like you were at 40mph plus.

I had tried it a few times between 35 and 40 to see what happens, with the same results!

I tried it in manual mode this morning, shifted up to 7th gear and put my foot down... nothing happened. I tried it a few times and still nothing happened. I tried double tapping (or double kickdown) and it shifted to 2nd like it did in standard 'D' mode.

Learn something new every day

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by ndj

Not telling you anything fella (I charge for that ), nor did I say anyone was going on about "it" here.

My point was the crap I read on car forums justifying "this or that" based on practices that should be reserved for a track, by drivers who's self image is typically greater than their driving talent.

Never driven on a track. I enjoy driving my car comfortably. Dropping the clutch without getting revs somewhat near just means horrible judder and unnecessary forces. The reason for doing it on a track is very different to doing it on the road.

Originally Posted by zltm089

thanks for posting!...

would be very interested to see when you're in M mode!

and also, in the video looks like you were at 40mph plus.

I always think the DCT loves the low revs too much. I find it strange because as a manual owner I find the inst. mpg is better @ 40mph around the 1500rpm mark in 5th than dropping into 6th. The engine feels smoother in the 1400-1600 band. I wonder if the later engines got a bit of a tweak to help them a bit lower down the revs?

I think his point was though, if you slam the throttle, surely your intent is "I want to go fast". The human controls the throttle, press down means accelerate. If you have a near instant gear change available why would you want to stay in 7th? The engine efficiency is actually quite poor for acceleration at very low revs.

[ndj]

The DCT box (in the M3 at least) has 6 selectable settings for the change-up / down and "kick-down" characteristics in Auto mode. That ranges from "lazy" in 1-2 though "increasingly urgent" in 3-4-5, to "instant" in 6.

Of course you can also switch to manual mode by pulling back on a wheel paddle at any time.

The problem with an M3 DCT in M mode (driver configurable but typically DCT-6 plus engine "power" and several other selectable options for steering and DSC) is not the reaction time to a throttle input, but how quickly you head-butt the speed limit. It's an incredible overtaking tool.

[Lewiss]

Originally Posted by ndj

The DCT box (in the M3 at least) has 6 selectable settings for the change-up / down and "kick-down" characteristics in Auto mode. That ranges from "lazy" in 1-2 though "increasingly urgent" in 3-4-5, to "instant" in 6.

I think that is the drive logic system which comes with the M3 DCT? unfortunately the 335i doesn't have that, so I imagine the transmission sits somewhere in the middle of those settings

[no1_jazz]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for your input so far. Its been a while and just a one question left on this topic of transmissions:

1: Can the DCT in a 2010 allow you to drift in any way shape or form? As you only have the brake and acceleration pedal.

I know with the traditional Manual one would hold the clutch down and hold the revs highs and then lift off from the clutch and of and away you go trying to control the rear end.

I do not plan to use this car as a drift car at all, its just something I was curious about as I do not know the answer to.
Thanks
J

[G82Dude]

It is interesting now though that BMW no longer think that their 135i/235i/335i/435i worthy (if that's the right word) of a DCT 'box set-up and opt for the extremely good ZF 8 speed. Now, that could be marketing (DCT only on M cars) or simply that DCT boxes are just a bit last year and they only now survive on more exotic models, as they can't just make manual M3/4/5/6s...

The DCT 'box when it was first introduced was supposed to be as good as a manual for driver involvement coupled with economy and emissions and with all the advantages of an automatic. Truth is, modern automatics as is, in everyday, real world driving use are better than a manual and I think DCTs have already had their day. DCTs are also a complete ball ache when they break (Google the number of Audi/VAG horror stories with their DSG boxes ~£4K to fix). I would have a DCT over a manual, not sure I would have one over a new ZF 8 speed though for everyday use...

[Boz335i]

Originally Posted by Lewiss

I think that is the drive logic system which comes with the M3 DCT? unfortunately the 335i doesn't have that, so I imagine the transmission sits somewhere in the middle of those settings

Having now owned both the 335i and now the M3 with DCT, I would say that the 335i DCT is something like the M3 set at 3.5, not as sharp as 4 but a bit faster than 3.

The M3 behaves differently in the fact that if you are in manual mode gear 7 and stopping in the 335i, it will automatically drop it down for you into Manual-2, wheareas the M3 won't drop it down and you will look like a complete muppet as you try to pull away from standstill in M7 (like I've done a couple of times and got done at the lights by a nissan micra last week )

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Boz335i

Having now owned both the 335i and now the M3 with DCT, I would say that the 335i DCT is something like the M3 set at 3.5, not as sharp as 4 but a bit faster than 3.

The M3 behaves differently in the fact that if you are in manual mode gear 7 and stopping in the 335i, it will drop it down for you into Manual-2, wheareas the M3 won't drop it down and you will look like a complete muppet as you try to pull away from standstill in M7 (like I've done a couple of times and got done at the lights by a nissan micra last week )

The DCT gearbox in the 335i and M3 is exactly the same mechanically (Getrag 7DCI600) - it's just software that gives the different "user experience".

[335ier]

Works vehicle is a dual clutch box. Wouldn't be without it.
Weekend BM is a manual box. Wouldn't be without it.

If I had to choose? Well I couldn't so I've both.

[Boz335i]

Originally Posted by uke92dude

The DCT gearbox in the 335i and M3 is exactly the same mechanically (Getrag 7DCI600) - it's just software that gives the different "user experience".

This is true, they do feel different but are the same box. Maybe there is an aftermarket flash/update that sharpens the 335i response, not that it really needs it though?

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by uke92dude

It is interesting now though that BMW no longer think that their 135i/235i/335i/435i worthy (if that's the right word) of a DCT 'box set-up and opt for the extremely good ZF 8 speed. Now, that could be marketing (DCT only on M cars) or simply that DCT boxes are just a bit last year and they only now survive on more exotic models, as they can't just make manual M3/4/5/6s...

The DCT 'box when it was first introduced was supposed to be as good as a manual for driver involvement coupled with economy and emissions and with all the advantages of an automatic. Truth is, modern automatics as is, in everyday, real world driving use are better than a manual and I think DCTs have already had their day. DCTs are also a complete ball ache when they break (Google the number of Audi/VAG horror stories with their DSG boxes ~£4K to fix). I would have a DCT over a manual, not sure I would have one over a new ZF 8 speed though for everyday use...

I think you have to look at the business side rather than the worthiness side.

• Maybe they had a good deal with the price on the boxes due to selling so many M3's and were able to get a decent discount for buying a few k more?
• The DCT also brought emissions down, that will save them a chunk of money too on emissions side of things and lower their overall lineup's emissions
• The above also brought the E93 from ~460 tax to ~270 in the UK
• The N55 wasn't ready at that point.

I think the oddest thing now is that a 435i has less power than its diesel brother and also even less than the M135i which has the same engine?!

[Sensible_]

Don't think this point has been highlighted yet...

An auto will usually wear the brakes faster due to the very small amount of engine compression braking compared to that of a manual when you come off the drive. Although if you are a heavy braker in a manual it won't make a whole lot of difference. Depends of road type as well.

I do a lot of city driving so prefer an auto. For open roads you can't beat the flexibility of a manual in my opinion.

[ndj]

Originally Posted by Boz335i

The M3 behaves differently in the fact that if you are in manual mode gear 7 and stopping in the 335i, it will automatically drop it down for you into Manual-2, wheareas the M3 won't drop it down and you will look like a complete muppet as you try to pull away from standstill in M7 (like I've done a couple of times and got done at the lights by a nissan micra last week )

Strange. My M3 does drop the car back into 1st or 2nd if I come to a stop in manual mode. There's no sense in the box leaving you in top gear when stationary. Sure you don't have a fault?

[Boz335i]

Originally Posted by ndj

Strange. My M3 does drop the car back into 1st or 2nd if I come to a stop in manual mode. There's no sense in the box leaving you in top gear when stationary. Sure you don't have a fault?

Yeah that is odd, because the other day I'm sure I didn't change down and I pulled away in 2nd. I'll make a conscious effort to take notice tomorrow and see what happens.
I don't really want a software update, because where a couple of people have said there is a slight lag in DCT gear change, mine changes instantly every time. I made a conscious effort today to take note of the gear changes and they are extremely sharp. I can only think they are talking about auto mode or a 1-2 throttle response setting.