E90Post
 


Evolution of Speed
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Decided to fit a M3 diff



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-29-2016, 06:45 PM   #331
DR-JEKL
Major General
Australia
557
Rep
5,640
Posts

Drives: Space Grey E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newcastle Ozstraylia

iTrader: (3)

Counterbalancing bolts/washers on E9X ///M diffs

Has anyone ever witnessed the counterbalance bolts/washers on ther ///M diffs? This is a post I put up on M3post:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1231461

I have a 335i and have recently installed a complete driveline from a M3 into my car. This retrofit conversion has been commonplace for years now and the workshop who performed this conversion for me had done at least 4 of them in the past.

It largely all bolts up but to mate the diff up a custom driveshaft had to be manufactured as my 335i shaft wouldn't fit the M3 Diff flange. I purchased a E38 driveshaft (the 540i and 740i share the same type of diff flange to the M3) and the rear portion of my 335i was cut and the 740i section was welded to the shaft and balanced by a driveline specialist.

Upon driving the car above 80 km/h I was experiencing a humming vibration through the car (Seats, steering wheel etc) and it didn't dissapear at 140 km/h or when i applied the throttle or backed off the throttle.. It sounded like it was an out of balance driveshaft...

I was initially perturbed that a driveshaft would be cut n shut and welded as this sounded like a crude method, but alas there have been many conversions conducted on 135/335i around the world and this is the method they used...

Now to get to the reason for creating this thread and how it may be of relevance to you E9X M3 owners!

Discussing this issue with a fellow enthusiast who is a tech head and dabbles in a lot of coding, tweaking, research he came across some info in the BMW ISTA that may be the reason for my driveline vibration..

Apparently the driveline is setup to quite fine tolerances and each diff is balanced after assembly (you'll see a little round recess drilled in the flange - this is the method of correction where material is removed from the point of imbalance to ensure its precisely balanced)

drilling of the flange to remove imbalance:



In addition to the machining of the diff flange for balancing correction, there is counterbalancing on the bolts where the driveshaft connects to the diff flange as required for fine corrections (i.e if they cant get the diff perfectly balanced at the factory the technician marks the diff as OK or requiring addition counterbalancing - this is determined by the coloured mark on the diff)







Example of marks:



prior to 09/09 the counterbalancing was done with the use of washers on the marked hole )as indicated by the colour mark by the bmw factory tech) or after 09/09 special bolts once again as indicated by the colour marks. The diff I had was from a 2011 build M3 so if it required counterbalacing, it would require bolts.



bmw part #26112284154 black
bmw part #26112284153 green
black bolt is for blue marking
green is for yellow marking
if diff has white marking no counterbalance bolts required

My local BMW dealer (I'm in Australia) got me some prices for these bolts, he had some trouble as they weren't in the system as it seems no-one has ever ordered them and he discussed it with the workshop foreman who said they weren't aware of these counterbalance bolts..

They're a special order from Germany, and since I have no markings visible on my diff I would have to order both and attempt to find the orientation they should be mounted by installing driving the car and checking and removing and changing the position etc (not an easy task to do...)





*Quoted prices in AUD not USD*

I'm hoping the car doesn't need these bolts, as my diff has no marks so it will be a long process in attempting to locate the correct position on the flange which requires the counterbalance bolt.

My local BMW workshop foreman stated that they treat the diff flange bolts as a once use item (even though BMW procedures don't stipulate that the need to be replaced) and was unaware of the counterbalance bolts or washers...

Have any of you M3 owners ever been aware of the counterbalance bolts or washers?!?!
Appreciate 1
k335d63.50

      03-11-2016, 08:04 PM   #332
Theconnman2
Private First Class
Theconnman2's Avatar
25
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 09 335i Alpine White
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Menomonee falls

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR-JEKL View Post
[b]Has anyone ever witnessed the counterbalance bolts/washers on ther ///M diffs?
Thank you! I'm fitting an M3 diff to my car as we speak and it has a blue dot. New bolt is ordered!
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2016, 12:55 AM   #333
DR-JEKL
Major General
Australia
557
Rep
5,640
Posts

Drives: Space Grey E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newcastle Ozstraylia

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theconnman2 View Post
Thank you! I'm fitting an M3 diff to my car as we speak and it has a blue dot. New bolt is ordered!
Just be careful if yours is <08/2009 it will need a washer >8/2009 uses a bolt
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2016, 06:54 PM   #334
Theconnman2
Private First Class
Theconnman2's Avatar
25
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 09 335i Alpine White
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Menomonee falls

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone had problems with the driver side axle being too long? From all the people I have asked the m3 axles are the same length on both side but the diff'S driver side comes out further than the passenger side. My driver side cv has no movement and is pushing in on the diff an out on the hub. Any advice would be appreciated!
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2016, 07:27 PM   #335
liket
New Member
5
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 335i E92
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theconnman2 View Post
Has anyone had problems with the driver side axle being too long? From all the people I have asked the m3 axles are the same length on both side but the diff'S driver side comes out further than the passenger side. My driver side cv has no movement and is pushing in on the diff an out on the hub. Any advice would be appreciated!
I haven't measured mine, but from I remember, I'm pretty sure they are different lengths. The left and right driveshaft have different parts numbers so I don't see why they would do that if they fit both sides
Appreciate 1
feuer2191.50

      03-31-2016, 07:36 PM   #336
Theconnman2
Private First Class
Theconnman2's Avatar
25
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 09 335i Alpine White
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Menomonee falls

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liket View Post
I haven't measured mine, but from I remember, I'm pretty sure they are different lengths. The left and right driveshaft have different parts numbers so I don't see why they would do that if they fit both sides
Thanks for the response. They are infact different.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2016, 04:21 PM   #337
Johnny1
New Member
0
Rep
13
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Socal

iTrader: (0)

Does any one know the wheel offset to fit under the stock fenders? with the complete m3 rear subframe.
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2016, 08:33 AM   #338
N111CUK
G force Junkie
N111CUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
28
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 335i M Sport black edition
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Send a message via Skype™ to N111CUK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1 View Post
Does any one know the wheel offset to fit under the stock fenders? with the complete m3 rear subframe.
The rear m3 complete subframe is no wider that the standard one. use 335i offsets
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2016, 11:01 PM   #339
Johnny1
New Member
0
Rep
13
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Socal

iTrader: (0)

what about a 135i
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2016, 07:32 AM   #340
DR-JEKL
Major General
Australia
557
Rep
5,640
Posts

Drives: Space Grey E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newcastle Ozstraylia

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1 View Post
what about a 135i
The extra track on the ///M's is purely in the rims it will fit fine on your 135i
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2016, 11:47 PM   #341
Johnny1
New Member
0
Rep
13
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Socal

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      11-26-2016, 09:42 AM   #342
Tuningservice.no
Registered
Tuningservice.no's Avatar
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: E91 335i N54
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Does anybody know if the E39 M5 V8 middle-axle (propshaft) flange will fit the E9x M3 diff flange?

I see the 540/740 V8 flange is supposed to fit.
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2016, 10:35 AM   #343
Tuningservice.no
Registered
Tuningservice.no's Avatar
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: E91 335i N54
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Does anybody have the exact total length of driveshaft when having a short 12/2008 335i N54 manual and M3 diff?

Considering the possibility of a 1-piece dry-carbon instead of rebuilding a stock or M3 shaft.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2017, 05:38 PM   #344
DR-JEKL
Major General
Australia
557
Rep
5,640
Posts

Drives: Space Grey E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newcastle Ozstraylia

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuningservice.no View Post
Does anybody know if the E39 M5 V8 middle-axle (propshaft) flange will fit the E9x M3 diff flange?

I see the 540/740 V8 flange is supposed to fit.
The 740i flange definately fits!
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2018, 01:27 AM   #345
MilkBags
Registered
Canada
0
Rep
2
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i DCT
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

I've searched this thread and the forums, but I haven't found a definitive answer. Would an E9x M3 DCT (3.15) diff work in a 135i DCT (2.56)?

I understand I would have a lower top speed and that's fine, but I've also stumbled upon this post with the person attempting to put a E8X MT diff (3.08) and having issues with the car shifting.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2018, 01:49 AM   #346
N54POWR
Private First Class
47
Rep
160
Posts

Drives: 2011 335is
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Malibu, California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335is  [4.33]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkBags View Post
I've searched this thread and the forums, but I haven't found a definitive answer. Would an E9x M3 DCT (3.15) diff work in a 135i DCT (2.56)?

I understand I would have a lower top speed and that's fine, but I've also stumbled upon this post with the person attempting to put a E8X MT diff (3.08) and having issues with the car shifting.
At present, anything more than a 10% change will cause you major problems and headaches. Though there is a group of people out there trying to figure out how to change the fd ratio on dcts so you may just want to wait for it. I suggest you join the 'bmw dual clutch transmission tech' group on Facebook. You'll find all the information you need there. Read through all the pinned posts.
Appreciate 1
feuer2191.50

      03-06-2018, 11:25 PM   #347
bbnks2
Captain
354
Rep
794
Posts

Drives: 135i N55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Just finished up this swap...

2011
135i
N55
6MT
3.08-->3.15

I swapped in the entire rear end of an E92 DCT M3. I used my stock driveshaft and had a shop cut and weld the M3 differential end on. The driveshaft sits recesssed about 1/4" inside the diff flange. Measuring from the inside lip of the diff flange to the center support bearing mount bolt hole came out to 28 5/16".

You need to reuse your stock e-brake cable. The M3 cables are too long for the 135i. I did not think to do this and I now have a gerryrigged e-brake cable lol I will need to get the cables cut shorter eventually.

You are not supposed to re-use the ZNS bolts that are used on the diff flange. You need 6 new bolts. Make sure you have the reinforcements too (3x). There are no washers or nuts used on the diff flange. I did have blue paint marks so I threw a stainless steel M10 washer onto that bolt. No resulting vibrations as far as I can tell...

I reused my stock strut mounts so I didn't have to buy M3 struts (for now).

Brake bias feels much better with the larger M3 rear calipers and rotors. I kept the stock M3 pads in the rear and I run PFC08 up front. The car doesn't stand up on it's front end anymore under heavy braking (there was too much front bias stock). I gave it a few hard stops and the front still locks up first which is desirable so I feel it is a good move to use the M3 brakes. The car seems to stop shorter now with more rear bias but I did nothing scientific to prove it...

Make sure you buy an M3 specific rear diff mount. That is the only bushing that is different. I ordered a 135i kit and was not able to use the rear diff mount. It was way too big.

I did not bother getting a 50mm wrench for the stock shaft. I brought the old diff with the stock driveshaft still attached and just had the shop cut it off like that.

Also, I kept the M3 rear sway. One thing to note, the bushings on the M3 sway are designed to BIND on the bar. This means the sway bar will not only contribute to the effective roll rate but it will also increase the effective wheel rate during acceleration (squat). This is not desirable imo so I bored out the M3 sway bar bushings a bit. The M3 rear sway bar can now rotate freely and will only contribute to the effective wheel rate during roll.

Last edited by bbnks2; 03-07-2018 at 11:07 AM.
Appreciate 1
feuer2191.50

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST