[IanS100]

Originally Posted by mob17

Do you have to declare a S59? I thought it was just convictions/points etc?

Anything that would affect your risk profile & hence your premium must be declared in order to ensure that your policy actually covers you! Even speed awareness courses are now taken into consideration & may affect your cover / premium!!

[mob17]

Wow that's harsh!

This is what they ask you when you get a quote:

Have you had any driving related convictions, endorsements, penalties, disqualifications or bans in the past 5 years?

Surely i don't have to declare the S59, as it's not a conviction, endorsement, penalty, disqualification or ban?

[jimbo666]

From that statement above, I'd say the sect 59 is not disclosable. They very rarely are.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by mob17

Edit: Got the section 59 warning letter today. This is bullshit.

Did they say you'd be issued with that (S59) when you were stopped, as it wasn't mentioned in your first post Mob?

S59 covers driving in a anti social manner, so as the BIB (ihpj) said above it's unlikely you'll also be presented with a separate offence of DWoDC etc.

In some ways a S59 is quite a stringent warning, as both you and the car have a marker for 12 months, so step out of line and the car can be siezed, and if you can't afford to pay any accruing storage costs could be crushed.

So:

[mob17]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Did they say you'd be issued with that (S59) when you were stopped, as it wasn't mentioned in your first post Mob?

S59 covers driving in a anti social manner, so as the BIB (ihpj) said above it's unlikely you'll also be presented with a separate offence of DWoDC etc.

In some ways a S59 is quite a stringent warning, as both you and the car have a marker for 12 months, so step out of line and the car can be siezed, and if you can't afford to pay any accruing storage costs could be crushed.

So:

Haha i always drive like Miss Daisy.

In the car they gave me a verbal NIP and the usual yellow slip with the details on, like car reg, offence (DWDC) etc. Said i'll hear from Northants police. Then he said additionally i'll be issued with a S59 warning.

I hope you and the BIB are right about the process if getting one or the other. But i am expecting something else in the post, just because of what was told to me

Can they do that, is it definitely a breach of process?

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by mob17

Can they do that, is it definitely a breach of process?

Based on this:

SECTION 59 OF THE POLICE REFORM ACT - ANTI SOCIAL DRIVING OFFENCES
New laws in respect of certain anti social driving offences can now be dealt with by Section 59 of the Police Reform Act.

Basically what that means is if you are seen:

Driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner
Driving on common land, a footpath or bridle way or any land which is not part of a road
Driving in a manner which is causing/has been causing, or is likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.
Then a Section 59 warning can be issued to you. This warning is placed against both the driver and the vehicle and lasts for 12 months.

If the driver of the vehicle or the vehicle with the warning issued to it is then seen driving in any of those conditions again in the next 12 months the vehicle can be seized and, if not collected after paying for recovery and storage costs, it will be crushed. Please note that this relates to either the driver with the Section 59 or the vehicle.


the highlighted part takes care of what the officers allege you were guilty of, and is in effect the same as Driving without due care and attention, so as the officer above highlighted, you would probably only get one, S59 or the other, a NIP for CD10 (Driving without due care and attention)

I'd hang on and see if anything else lands on the doormat, and if it does,get some good legal representation.

Oh, by the way, I'll look after the car and If you survive the firing squad, you can have it back




























































eventually

[mob17]

I understand what you're saying, it's like they are going to prosecute me, whilst also warning me for the same alleged offence. Doesn't really make sense

I think there are two possible explanations. Either the officer made a mistake in thinking that he could give me a NIP and S59, or for some reason Northants Police prosecute and warn, which would be strange as the police officer on here mentioned that his force don't do that. I'll definitely get in touch with solicitors if this happens.

I'll sit tight now, but i might give the local station a visit to get more info, i.e to find out if they can prosecute me and give me a warning for the same alleged offense.

I'd actually trust you with my car Ian

Edit: According to this they can prosecute and warn http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?op...267&Itemid=492

[MrPogle]

Originally Posted by mob17

Wow that's harsh!

This is what they ask you when you get a quote:


Surely i don't have to declare the S59, as it's not a conviction, endorsement, penalty, disqualification or ban?

In the UK you have to disclose anything that they may think is a factor in them taking you on. You could argue (after submitting a claim) that you thought that driving in an irresponsible manner would be something they didn't care about but I'd practise the line because you could easily sound silly.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by MrPogle

In the UK you have to disclose anything that they may think is a factor in them taking you on. You could argue (after submitting a claim) that you thought that driving in an irresponsible manner would be something they didn't care about but I'd practise the line because you could easily sound silly.

Please could you share any links/references you have that state we have to declare any S59 warnings? As on most insurance quotes they don't ask.

[MrPogle]

The thing with insurance, which is not widely understood, is that they don't have to specifically ask, you have to volunteer the info. In an insurance contract, they know nothing about you except what you choose to tell them so you have to tell them everything that may be relevant. No offence but if you really believe that they won't be interested in an S59 why are you reluctant to tell them?

Google "uberrimae fidei" for all the legal-stuff relating to insurance contracts and what your obligations are but basically if you don't tell them something that you could reasonably have been expected to think they might want to know, you could (in theory) be uninsured. To be honest it rarely comes to that and for small claims it probably wouldn't matter.

In this day and age it is not without risk to have discussed informing them on this forum and then not doing it. It wouldn't matter for a few grands worth of damage but if they were looking at a million-pounds liability claim they might start looking at social-network stuff to see what they could find out about you. At that point it would be hard to argue that "it never occurred to you" that they might want to know.

[mob17]

Thanks for the info, i never knew that. I thought if they didn't ask we don't tell. It shows the power of these insurance companies, they can fuck us however they want.

The way i see it is why would i want to declare something that isn't a legal obligation. I'll speak with a solicitor (which i was going to do anyway about my situation) and if they say that declaring it is a legal requirement then i'll obviously inform my insurance company immediately.

By the way, if you are suggesting that an insurance company can find out who i am from my forum activity, and also use that info legally, then that is quite far fetched. Unless they have GCHQ style information!! But i do agree if i had a lot of social networking data on the internet (facebook, twitter) then it could be done. But i don't

[MrPogle]

Originally Posted by mob17

But i do agree if i had a lot of social networking data on the internet (facebook, twitter) then it could be done. But i don't

Very wise. In my job I am bombarded by offers from companies who are offering to do "back-ground checks" on potential employees. I am convinced that they resort to non-legal methods to get the info they sell. I wouldn't be confident that I could hide any online info from them. The real kicker is that, although they probably obtain this info in ways that would prevent it being used legally, once they show me where it is, I can "find" it on the net and it's all OK to use because it is nothing to do with their illegal methods.

I don't and wouldn't use these companies but many people do.

[mob17]

It's been 10 working days (2 weeks this Sunday). Am i jumping the gun by thinking nothing is coming? They normally come within a week, in my experience of Northampton NIPs.

I haven't phoned the station to find out, just in case they have forgotten, which would be a suprise admittedly.

[MrPogle]

I hope nothing comes of this but if you find yourself in the pseudo-lottery that is our criminal justice system, my advice is to avoid using the word "normally"

[BGM]

Originally Posted by MrPogle

I hope nothing comes of this but if you find yourself in the pseudo-lottery that is our criminal justice system, my advice is to avoid using the word "normally"

14 days isn't it that a NIP can be issued in?

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by mob17

They normally come within a week, in my experience of Northampton NIPs.

You make it sound like the lounge is decorated with NIP wallpaper Mob

All you need to know about becoming a NIPatelist:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/proced...rosecution.htm

Points DON'T make prizes!

[Jase 320d]

I got done for careless driving / failing to stop and 3 bald tyres back in my youth



Ended up with a driver assessment course, passed that and the case got dropped!


Was a lucky boy! Changed my ways since then though

[mob17]

Originally Posted by BGM

14 days isn't it that a NIP can be issued in?

In my case they gave me a verbal NIP (yellow slip). So in effect they gave me notice immediately.

Just wondering how long they can take now.

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

You make it sound like the lounge is decorated with NIP wallpaper Mob

All you need to know about becoming a NIPatelist:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/proced...rosecution.htm

Points DON'T make prizes!

Haha oh well!

Police are getting cleverer by the day, and we must too evolve to survive.

I've had a read of that link but the advice given is for people issued with NIPs that haven't been stopped. I just need to know how long they have after an NIP to let me know of their decision. Don't really want to call to remind them!

[Billyray911]

Originally Posted by mob17

In my case they gave me a verbal NIP (yellow slip). So in effect they gave me notice immediately.

Just wondering how long they can take now.

Haha oh well!

Police are getting cleverer by the day, and we must too evolve to survive.

I've had a read of that link but the advice given is for people issued with NIPs that haven't been stopped. I just need to know how long they have after an NIP to let me know of their decision. Don't really want to call to remind them!

Six months

[mob17]

Fucks sake.

[chris330D]

As above, they've notified you you could be prosecuted. Happened to me at the start of the year. Did create a thread on it but luckily nothing came of it. Just means a long time dreading the post each day.

[mob17]

Hi

So got a letter from the police today. 3 options:

1) A What's Driving Us course. £80 no points
2) £100 penalty and 3 points
3) Court

Wonder which i'm going to choose!

Over the moon

So has anyone done a whats us driving course? I dont understand what they are meant to teach?