[mathematics]

Originally Posted by kmarei

which LOC were you using ?
looking for an LOC for my HIFI system for a powered subwoofer

Stinger

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by mathematics

Stinger

do you know which model?
they have sgn11, sgn12, and sgn13

[mathematics]

im not sure which one it was as i dont have it anymore. sorry =(

[quality_sound]

Ken,

Question for you. I'm not interested in using an SWS for the front midbass. I've been exploring my options since NONE of the 8s I have are anywhere close to fitting. I looked at the Renaissance 8 and it's 2.75" deep which I think will rule it out. I really wanted to try an all Renaissance front end but I don't think it'll happen.

Back to my question, how much deeper, if any, can I go (using a spacer if needed) before running into issues with either depth or clearance on the front of the driver? I'm thinking about a Space 8 now.

[Technic]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304693

[VP Electricity]

Well, that says a lot.

The bottom of the enclosure is bumped differently on one side than the other. You really want an interior magnet or a gentle slope like the space.

I am thinking about pulling my SWS8 and trying stamped-frame Morels.

How do you like the Space 8, Technic?

[quality_sound]

Ken,

I don't think the Morels will fit since the Renaissances won't fit and they're basically the same drivers, or were anyway. If you have any luck with the Morels let me know.

Technic,

Maybe you can answer this. What's the difference between the Space 8 and Space 8L? The L has lower power handling and slightly higher efficiency but other than that and a cosmetic difference they seem to be pretty similar. Maybe one is an IB model? I haven't had a chance to look at their T-S numbers yet.

Thanks,
Paul

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Ken,

I don't think the Morels will fit since the Renaissances won't fit and they're basically the same drivers, or were anyway. If you have any luck with the Morels let me know.

Technic,

Maybe you can answer this. What's the difference between the Space 8 and Space 8L? The L has lower power handling and slightly higher efficiency but other than that and a cosmetic difference they seem to be pretty similar. Maybe one is an IB model? I haven't had a chance to look at their T-S numbers yet.

Thanks,
Paul

That's the car the jml posted on DIYMA and M3post. I didn't think that was Technic's. Those drivers are being used as midbass. The car also has trunk mounted subs.

[quality_sound]

If you call an 8 a sub. LMAO.

Yeah, I know but jml never answers any of my PMs so I figured I'd as him. Worst case is he doesn't know.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

If you call an 8 a sub. LMAO.

Yeah, I know but jml never answers any of my PMs so I figured I'd as him. Worst case is he doesn't know.

Just looked up the specs. The 8L has higher Qts (0.98 vs 0.66 for the 8) and higher Fs (68 vs 66). Hertz webiste doesn't really give more information on why there are 2 versions.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

That's the car the jml posted on DIYMA and M3post. I didn't think that was Technic's. Those drivers are being used as midbass. The car also has trunk mounted subs.

Yes, that's the reason I posted the link... and the reason I'm not using them. I just don't want a sub in the trunk for now, so I tuned the SWS-8 with the bit one to sound as a "virtual" sub and mid bass up to 175Hz, and lowered the 4" speakers to play from 80Hz up.

So far it works.

I don't think that the Space8 -or the shallow Morel 10- can go as low as the SWS-8. That's the reason those woofers are installed with subs in the trunk in the two installations that I have seen.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by Technic

Yes, that's the reason I posted the link... and the reason I'm not using them. I just don't want a sub in the trunk for now, so I tuned the SWS-8 with the bit one to sound as a "virtual" sub and mid bass up to 175Hz, and lowered the 4" speakers to play from 80Hz up.

So far it works.

I don't think that the Space8 -or the shallow Morel 10- can go as low as the SWS-8. That's the reason those woofers are installed with subs in the trunk in the two installations that I have seen.

I'm not planning on using the underseat driver as a sub anyway so it's all good. Do you still have the OEM 4s playing down to 80Hz? How are they handling it? That seems awfully low even for a very good 4".

[Technic]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I'm not planning on using the underseat driver as a sub anyway so it's all good. Do you still have the OEM 4s playing down to 80Hz? How are they handling it? That seems awfully low even for a very good 4".

They play very, very well so far after almost a year of pounding, but I got the crossover slope set to 24dB and not too much of a gain below 100Hz, though.

The Individual Audio 4" components physically look very much like Focal 100KP but without the cone shaped center.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

I don't think that the Space8 -or the shallow Morel 10- can go as low as the SWS-8. That's the reason those woofers are installed with subs in the trunk in the two installations that I have seen.

The computer models I ran with the SWS, Morels and some other drivers showed the same thing. I seems that the space constraint plays a major role in the response in that location.

[VP Electricity]

I fully expect the SWS8 to play lower than the Space 8 or the Morel 8. But I'm using these as a midbass driver, with a Morel Ultimo SC10 in the back playing 60 and down.

I can configure the system to play without the SC10, with the SWS playing all the way down, and it would be perfectly acceptable for a lot of people. That ported enclosure does very well playing all the way down.

But the SWS as a driver doesn't play mid-bass nearly as well, from like 100 up to 200 or so. I think the Space 8 probably does better at midbass, and I think the Morel does as well, IF you highpass the driver at like 40 or 50 with a steep slope.

I may be incorrect in that it just may be a poor midbass location and I may end up with 6.5 in my doors

[quality_sound]

Well technically the midbass location in my MkV "isn't good" but properly T/A'd with my Bit One they worked great.

I'm thinking the same as you though. Worst case, I have Bing work me up a nice set of door panels and maybe some dash pods.

But again, I have absolutely no intention of running the underseat drivers as subs. A 4" running to 80Hz with an overlapped 8" sub just isn't going to give me the midbass impact I like.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Well technically the midbass location in my MkV "isn't good" but properly T/A'd with my Bit One they worked great.

yeah, I don't know off the top of my head the transfer function of foam, springs, leather, and my ass

Originally Posted by quality_sound

But again, I have absolutely no intention of running the underseat drivers as subs. A 4" running to 80Hz with an overlapped 8" sub just isn't going to give me the midbass impact I like.

A huh.

I may try 2 ohm SWS8 first, though, to let my amp develop more power to support my parametric EQ's settings...

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

yeah, I don't know off the top of my head the transfer function of foam, springs, leather, and my ass

That sir, is the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time.

A huh.

I may try 2 ohm SWS8 first, though, to let my amp develop more power to support my parametric EQ's settings...

Might not be a bad idea. Let us know how it works.

[kaigoss69]

OK, so it seems a few of us audio "maniacs" are just not happy with the midbass in our cars, no matter what we try. The SWS do fairly well, but let's face it - they're designed for sub-bass, not midbass. Only the Space 8 driver fits in the OEM enclosure, but it is damn expensive and its performance potential has surely been compromised by the shallow design (reviews I have found are not that great). If you build a custom sealed enclosure for some of the handful of shallow 8" mids out there, you would have to be concerned about the enclosure volume being too small for these drivers to play reasonably flat and down to the 50-60Hz range.

So I was thinking just now... what if you took the OEM enclosure out and put some sort of baffle board on-top the "hole" in the floor, sealed it up really well and then installed an IB midbass driver... wouldn't that be physically possible? This would maximize the airspace behind the driver, especially if you consider the existing "port", and essentially turn this into a true IB installation like a car door, for example.

Just food for thought, in our quest to achieve some decent midbass response in our cars.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

yeah, I don't know off the top of my head the transfer function of foam, springs, leather, and my ass

LOL, let's not talk about resonance frequencies of those "materials" either!

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

So I was thinking just now... what if you took the OEM enclosure out and put some sort of baffle board on-top the "hole" in the floor, sealed it up really well and then installed an IB midbass driver... wouldn't that be physically possible? This would maximize the airspace behind the driver, especially if you consider the existing "port", and essentially turn this into a true IB installation like a car door, for example.

There are three possible reasons for less-than-stellar midbass from this location (in order of my projected probability):

1) The fact that it's under the flipping seat.

2) The location relative to the firewall/doors/roof/etc (destructive interference).

3) The driver used.

4) The enclosure size.

In my experience, small enclosures don't hurt midbass freqs much.

For an infinite baffle to be effective (and not be part of an actual enclosure), there is some multiple (which I don't recall) which its area must be greater than the Sd (driver area). I don't think that multiple is possible under the seat.

So even though the driver used I place as fairly unlikely, it's easier to test. Moving the driver - say to a 6.5 at the bottom of the door - is a lot harder to test even though it changes all four factors.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

OK, so it seems a few of us audio "maniacs" are just not happy with the midbass in our cars, no matter what we try. The SWS do fairly well, but let's face it - they're designed for sub-bass, not midbass. Only the Space 8 driver fits in the OEM enclosure, but it is damn expensive and its performance potential has surely been compromised by the shallow design (reviews I have found are not that great). If you build a custom sealed enclosure for some of the handful of shallow 8" mids out there, you would have to be concerned about the enclosure volume being too small for these drivers to play reasonably flat and down to the 50-60Hz range.

So I was thinking just now... what if you took the OEM enclosure out and put some sort of baffle board on-top the "hole" in the floor, sealed it up really well and then installed an IB midbass driver... wouldn't that be physically possible? This would maximize the airspace behind the driver, especially if you consider the existing "port", and essentially turn this into a true IB installation like a car door, for example.

Just food for thought, in our quest to achieve some decent midbass response in our cars.

Morel ADMW SW 9"

http://www.janixworld.com/330xi/stereo/post/