E85 and codes you may have run into.

themyst · 12-23-2012, 11:22 AM

Hey guys, I'm just trying to take a survey of issues and codes you may have run into while running E85 extensively.

I have run anywhere between E30 and E45 blends for around 4000 miles and wanted to share what MAY have failed based on extended E85 usage. If you guys have anything to add to this list, feel free to add.

1. DMTL pump failure
2A17
2A17 DMTL diagnosis module tank leakage, system failure

2. Fuel Mixture codes - system too lean bank 1/2
29E0 / 29E1

135Pats · 12-23-2012, 11:44 AM

I don't run E85 with the frequency you do, but I was playing around with it every other fill up until it got really cold out..The most aggressive mixture I ever ran was about E40, and the car threw the fuel mixture code, though it ran very strong and logged clean. I did notice AFRs were a tiny bit high with that mixture, but nothing crazy or in danger of lean out situations. Cold start wasn't quite as clean an operation, but I didn't have misfires/shuddering/distressingly long cranks. I've filled a mixture of 93 pump and E85 to E30 10 times or so, and never got any sort of code or issue. Mods are in sig, my car does not have flex fuel lines and is still on OE LPFP+HPFP, so fueling is 100% stock. All in all, my experience with modest E85 mixes was very positive, i'm not sure if I feel comfortable doing it every time I fill, but I don't have any serious issues to share. I'm interested to see how aggressive folks have taken it with stock fueling, any guesses as to when it gets too lean?

RnmEvo9 · 12-23-2012, 12:01 PM

I have only encountered 29e0 and 29e1 when using e85 mixes and non flashed DME aka jb4 g4. Under COBB's ots e30 maps, I have not thrown those codes whatsoever. Oh, and I've been running e85 mixes for more than a year by now and still using stock lpfp and hpfp. I have had to replace my low pressure fuel sensor, but I'm not sure if it had any correlation to e85 mixes as I may have had that code when I first got the car...

NoTempoLimitN54 · 12-23-2012, 01:32 PM

I'm experimenting E85 as a way to boost 91 AKI CA gas to 92-93 AKI. Just one gallon to raise CA Premium 5.7% ethanol to 10-11% ethanol. N54 is designed to handle at least E10. Some guys here have claimed that the Brazilian market cars are the same and the minimum ethanol there is E25.

No problems at all running E10 mix (as expected), and the car definitely runs better. Impact on fuel economy is minimal.

It's difficult to put an exact number on octane gains with ethanol. I think it's different between naturally aspirated and forced induction cars. FI cars gain more anti-knock from the ethanol due to charge air cooling effects. I can say based on a LOT of research that boosting 5.7% ethanol to 11% will raise the AKI at least 1 point.

However, diminishing returns start at 10% ethanol, so to get another point AKI would probably require 22% ethanol. This effect increases with the ethanol percentage.

In CA where 100 AKI street legal race gas can cost nearly $10/gal and no one has anything better than 91 AKI except for that race gas, E85 is the only economically viable option for raising octane.

PR3CI5N · 12-23-2012, 01:42 PM

Your #2 are the codes I've gotten while running E-85. My LPFP could be on its way out as well.

sickem · 12-23-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N

Your #2 are the codes I've gotten while running E-85. My LPFP could be on its way out as well.

Same here, getting fuel mixture codes 29E0/1. Dealer can't figure out what's wrong. I haven't run E85 since I started having issues, but I'm maxing fuel trims on the procede even on pump gas. So I've either gotta put the stock DPs on and take it back or have an Indy shop look at it.

n54gte · 12-23-2012, 04:34 PM

Been running e85 for months and now my car runs lean whenever i wot. LPFP cant keep up

PR3CI5N · 12-23-2012, 05:13 PM

Yeah I think our LPFP r working too hard but I'm under warranty still so when it goes it goes. I had my LPFP fail on me in LA once and my car shut off while driving in a parking garage in 1st gear and wouldn't start. Had to have it towed back to Brea so I could remove my mods and then had it towed to a dealer. Pain the in ace.

RnmEvo9 · 12-23-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordan313

Been running e85 for months and now my car runs lean whenever i wot. LPFP cant keep up

Are you flashed?

n54gte · 12-23-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Are you flashed?

Nope, too expensive cause I gotta buy a Cobb to do it

Wedge1967 · 12-23-2012, 07:01 PM

When I started running higher % I had to replace my HPFP because it was coding with high pressure fuel rail codes. Then I was maxing trims so I bought the flex kit with flash. Wasn't more than a week as I was turning up the boost and timing, I started getting LPFP codes. I waited for the FFTEC booster pump and haven't had any issue sense I had it installed before shift sector. I'm running 100% e85 and the Ethanol sensor is reading 80+ % on average.

On a side note, my trip home from SoCal, I loaded the pump aggressive maps and with just pump I got 29 mpg with stage III map4 with meth for the few times I had to stand on it in the mountains.

themyst · 12-23-2012, 11:03 PM

Well, I get the mixture codes on straight 93 pump gas (E10). I gotta pull the DP fix to eliminate that as a cause.

Gugs · 12-24-2012, 12:47 AM

Been running e85 for about 15k.
No problems

Only codes Ive ever had was when I did over a 50/50 mix and they were o2 sensor codes. Fixed the mix proportions and all was fine again.

sickem · 12-24-2012, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

Well, I get the mixture codes on straight 93 pump gas (E10). I gotta pull the DP fix to eliminate that as a cause.

Please keep me posted on this...you might get to this before I do.

JStang · 12-24-2012, 11:05 AM

29F3 (low pressure fuel sensor) and 2AAF (fuel pump plausibility). Replaced the fuel sensor and both codes are gone. Not saying these are related directly to E85 but there are quite a few people who are reporting these codes now that E85 is more popular.

themyst · 12-24-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickem

Please keep me posted on this...you might get to this before I do.

Dp fix is out. Ill report back in 60 or so miles if the fix was the cause of the mixture codes. I dont think so though.

cwarren · 12-24-2012, 02:49 PM

been running 50/50 mix for months and no problems at all car seems to run better. everytime i switch back to straight pump my car idles like crap.

themyst · 12-24-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwarren

been running 50/50 mix for months and no problems at all car seems to run better. everytime i switch back to straight pump my car idles like crap.

You need to reset adaptations when you go back to straight pump gas. .

sickem · 12-24-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

Dp fix is out. Ill report back in 60 or so miles if the fix was the cause of the mixture codes. I dont think so though.

Thanks. I doubt this is it either, but worth a try...are you also maxing fuel trims or is your car otherwise happy?

cwarren · 12-24-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

You need to reset adaptations when you go back to straight pump gas. .

i reset ecu everytime i change maps (running cobb only) but ran stage 2+aggr and it seems to idle around 850-900 and spudders . when i run e-50 map wich all i change from the e-40 is scalar car seems to idle at 650 and smooth. i have tested this several times with the same results .

ManoB1 · 12-24-2012, 10:30 PM

I've been running 50 50 mix on e85 since they came out with the maps for rev2.5 I also have had to replace spark plugs and coils due to misfires and the issue went away and was running strong...now I get the lean codes in bank 1 and 2 and I get check engine light and it seems misfires when I go wot again. I replaced the coil and plugs about 10k miles ago but I guess I'll replace them again. The car runs like crap right now and I have the same issue when trying to go back the pump The car feels worse and just doesn't feel right and I do reset adaptations and gave time to adapt. Just not the same on pump since switching to e85.

Does the codes for lean bank 1 and 2 and my current misfires. Well I assume misfires. But when I clear the check engine light and go wot and get check engine light and codes the car runs extremely rough and I have to turn the car off then on to fix it.. .. But I can never go wot cause it always does it. Sux...an suggestions. Think of upgrading to rev 3. Getting the flex kit and dime flash and new plugs and coils. Should fix the prob. Unless u guys think I need a new lpfp???

NiVeDh · 12-24-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManoB1

I've been running 50 50 mix on e85 since they came out with the maps for rev2.5 I also have had to replace spark plugs and coils due to misfires and the issue went away and was running strong...now I get the lean codes in bank 1 and 2 and I get check engine light and it seems misfires when I go wot again. I replaced the coil and plugs about 10k miles ago but I guess I'll replace them again. The car runs like crap right now and I have the same issue when trying to go back the pump The car feels worse and just doesn't feel right and I do reset adaptations and gave time to adapt. Just not the same on pump since switching to e85.

Does the codes for lean bank 1 and 2 and my current misfires. Well I assume misfires. But when I clear the check engine light and go wot and get check engine light and codes the car runs extremely rough and I have to turn the car off then on to fix it.. .. But I can never go wot cause it always does it. Sux...an suggestions. Think of upgrading to rev 3. Getting the flex kit and dime flash and new plugs and coils. Should fix the prob. Unless u guys think I need a new lpfp???

Got any logs? Your description seems strangely familiar.

12-23-2012, 11:22 AM	#1
themyst Major General 177 Rep 6,631 Posts Drives: '16 MK7 GTI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (8)	E85 and codes you may have run into. Hey guys, I'm just trying to take a survey of issues and codes you may have run into while running E85 extensively. I have run anywhere between E30 and E45 blends for around 4000 miles and wanted to share what MAY have failed based on extended E85 usage. If you guys have anything to add to this list, feel free to add. 1. DMTL pump failure 2A17 2A17 DMTL diagnosis module tank leakage, system failure 2. Fuel Mixture codes - system too lean bank 1/2 29E0 / 29E1 __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT
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12-23-2012, 11:44 AM	#2
135Pats Major General 456 Rep 6,478 Posts Drives: A few BMWs Join Date: May 2012 Location: Maryland iTrader: (3)	I don't run E85 with the frequency you do, but I was playing around with it every other fill up until it got really cold out..The most aggressive mixture I ever ran was about E40, and the car threw the fuel mixture code, though it ran very strong and logged clean. I did notice AFRs were a tiny bit high with that mixture, but nothing crazy or in danger of lean out situations. Cold start wasn't quite as clean an operation, but I didn't have misfires/shuddering/distressingly long cranks. I've filled a mixture of 93 pump and E85 to E30 10 times or so, and never got any sort of code or issue. Mods are in sig, my car does not have flex fuel lines and is still on OE LPFP+HPFP, so fueling is 100% stock. All in all, my experience with modest E85 mixes was very positive, i'm not sure if I feel comfortable doing it every time I fill, but I don't have any serious issues to share. I'm interested to see how aggressive folks have taken it with stock fueling, any guesses as to when it gets too lean? __________________ E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Other stuff...652WHP F30 N55 XDrive EBII
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12-23-2012, 12:01 PM	#3
RnmEvo9 Banned 247 Rep 1,827 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL iTrader: (2)	I have only encountered 29e0 and 29e1 when using e85 mixes and non flashed DME aka jb4 g4. Under COBB's ots e30 maps, I have not thrown those codes whatsoever. Oh, and I've been running e85 mixes for more than a year by now and still using stock lpfp and hpfp. I have had to replace my low pressure fuel sensor, but I'm not sure if it had any correlation to e85 mixes as I may have had that code when I first got the car...
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12-23-2012, 01:32 PM	#4
NoTempoLimitN54 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 290 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW 335i (E92) [0.00]	I'm experimenting E85 as a way to boost 91 AKI CA gas to 92-93 AKI. Just one gallon to raise CA Premium 5.7% ethanol to 10-11% ethanol. N54 is designed to handle at least E10. Some guys here have claimed that the Brazilian market cars are the same and the minimum ethanol there is E25. No problems at all running E10 mix (as expected), and the car definitely runs better. Impact on fuel economy is minimal. It's difficult to put an exact number on octane gains with ethanol. I think it's different between naturally aspirated and forced induction cars. FI cars gain more anti-knock from the ethanol due to charge air cooling effects. I can say based on a LOT of research that boosting 5.7% ethanol to 11% will raise the AKI at least 1 point. However, diminishing returns start at 10% ethanol, so to get another point AKI would probably require 22% ethanol. This effect increases with the ethanol percentage. In CA where 100 AKI street legal race gas can cost nearly $10/gal and no one has anything better than 91 AKI except for that race gas, E85 is the only economically viable option for raising octane. __________________ For Sale: 2009 335i 6MT (E92/N54), Sport / M-Technic / no iDrive / Black Sapphire / Black Dakota Leather, ZCW, 6FL, PDC, 19" VMR VB3, Pilot Super Sport, M3 control arms + tension links (fr) S. California
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12-23-2012, 01:42 PM	#5
PR3CI5N need4speed 510 Rep 1,903 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 M 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: West Coast iTrader: (24)	Your #2 are the codes I've gotten while running E-85. My LPFP could be on its way out as well. __________________ N54
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12-23-2012, 04:34 PM	#7
n54gte Lieutenant 42 Rep 537 Posts Drives: prius Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: north korea iTrader: (0)	Been running e85 for months and now my car runs lean whenever i wot. LPFP cant keep up
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12-23-2012, 05:13 PM	#8
PR3CI5N need4speed 510 Rep 1,903 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 M 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: West Coast iTrader: (24)	Yeah I think our LPFP r working too hard but I'm under warranty still so when it goes it goes. I had my LPFP fail on me in LA once and my car shut off while driving in a parking garage in 1st gear and wouldn't start. Had to have it towed back to Brea so I could remove my mods and then had it towed to a dealer. Pain the in ace. __________________ N54
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12-23-2012, 07:01 PM	#11
Wedge1967 Banned 125 Rep 2,172 Posts Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (3)	When I started running higher % I had to replace my HPFP because it was coding with high pressure fuel rail codes. Then I was maxing trims so I bought the flex kit with flash. Wasn't more than a week as I was turning up the boost and timing, I started getting LPFP codes. I waited for the FFTEC booster pump and haven't had any issue sense I had it installed before shift sector. I'm running 100% e85 and the Ethanol sensor is reading 80+ % on average. On a side note, my trip home from SoCal, I loaded the pump aggressive maps and with just pump I got 29 mpg with stage III map4 with meth for the few times I had to stand on it in the mountains.
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12-23-2012, 11:03 PM	#12
themyst Major General 177 Rep 6,631 Posts Drives: '16 MK7 GTI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (8)	Well, I get the mixture codes on straight 93 pump gas (E10). I gotta pull the DP fix to eliminate that as a cause. __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT
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12-24-2012, 12:47 AM	#13
Gugs Banned 28 Rep 457 Posts Drives: E92 JetBlack Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Long island iTrader: (1)	Been running e85 for about 15k. No problems Only codes Ive ever had was when I did over a 50/50 mix and they were o2 sensor codes. Fixed the mix proportions and all was fine again.
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12-24-2012, 11:05 AM	#15
JStang Brigadier General 562 Rep 3,625 Posts Drives: FDB M3 CS Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: St. Petersburg, FL iTrader: (9)	29F3 (low pressure fuel sensor) and 2AAF (fuel pump plausibility). Replaced the fuel sensor and both codes are gone. Not saying these are related directly to E85 but there are quite a few people who are reporting these codes now that E85 is more popular.
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12-24-2012, 02:49 PM	#17
cwarren Captain 82 Rep 725 Posts Drives: 08 e92 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: portland iTrader: (1)	been running 50/50 mix for months and no problems at all car seems to run better. everytime i switch back to straight pump my car idles like crap.
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12-24-2012, 10:30 PM	#21
ManoB1 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 35 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi Join Date: May 2012 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	I've been running 50 50 mix on e85 since they came out with the maps for rev2.5 I also have had to replace spark plugs and coils due to misfires and the issue went away and was running strong...now I get the lean codes in bank 1 and 2 and I get check engine light and it seems misfires when I go wot again. I replaced the coil and plugs about 10k miles ago but I guess I'll replace them again. The car runs like crap right now and I have the same issue when trying to go back the pump The car feels worse and just doesn't feel right and I do reset adaptations and gave time to adapt. Just not the same on pump since switching to e85. Does the codes for lean bank 1 and 2 and my current misfires. Well I assume misfires. But when I clear the check engine light and go wot and get check engine light and codes the car runs extremely rough and I have to turn the car off then on to fix it.. .. But I can never go wot cause it always does it. Sux...an suggestions. Think of upgrading to rev 3. Getting the flex kit and dime flash and new plugs and coils. Should fix the prob. Unless u guys think I need a new lpfp???
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