[m@rk]

Originally Posted by doc_ab

yes i do need to drive as I am a doctor and dont think the hospital or my patients would be very happy if I didnt turn up.

But I believes that makes you the exception to the rule doesn't it.

I am not so sure most drivers even ask themselves the question.

[m@rk]

Originally Posted by jimmylimmy

How is other road users not being able to stop a benefit or arguement for you not being able to stop either?!?

It's not

It's a reason for following advice and not travelling unless it's an emergency.

[jimmylimmy]

Originally Posted by m@rk

It's not

It's a reason for following advice and not travelling unless it's an emergency.

If everyone had winter tyres, they wouldnt have to give that advice

[bounty78]

Slightly off topic but does anyone here has any experience with this

http://www.autoworld4u.co.uk/spray-o...now-91341.html

Like some of us, i live in a rented flat and i don't have a garage to store the summer tyres. And i don't do a lot of miles as i live in the hospital accommodation where i work. Been down the snow socks route last winter..it was great getting out of black ice and slush and wet snow but it was shredded into bits as soon as it hits the tarmac. And it can be a PITA to put it on or take it off especially when there is a blizzard. This liquid snow chain stuff looks cool but quite like to hear from those who had used them in the past.

[briers]

Originally Posted by bounty78

Slightly off topic but does anyone here has any experience with this

http://www.autoworld4u.co.uk/spray-o...now-91341.html

Like some of us, i live in a rented flat and i don't have a garage to store the summer tyres. And i don't do a lot of miles as i live in the hospital accommodation where i work. Been down the snow socks route last winter..it was great getting out of black ice and slush and wet snow but it was shredded into bits as soon as it hits the tarmac. And it can be a PITA to put it on or take it off especially when there is a blizzard. This liquid snow chain stuff looks cool but quite like to hear from those who had used them in the past.

I'm sure he just stuck it in 2nd gear and controlled the throttle.

Why not fit all season tyres the next time round, some all season tyres work perfectly well in the summer too. Nokian perhaps.

Or you could get these

[OMLGitzScott]

Ok, so saying im opting for winters, what size rims will fit over a 330ds calipers and what tyres would best?

I'd probably be looking at 16"s or 17"s, pref steelies to keep cost down both on the wheels and any repair costs, unless a decent set of alloys come up.

[briers]

17" minimum i would say

18" for looks but equally as good grip.

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by jimmylimmy

If everyone had winter tyres, they wouldnt have to give that advice

Why doesn't Heathrow have more snow ploughs?

Why aren't there more gritting machines?

Why did grit supplies run low last year?

Why did the NHS have to go looking for private citizens with their own 4WDs last winter?

All because an economic decision was made that the costs of full preparation for a severe winter exceeded the benefits over a long period of time.

Winter tyres would have provided an obvious benefit to owners the last 2 years. Most of the last 2 decades before that they would have had minimal benefit.

Here is yet another test:
http://www.wintertyres.info/
Except on snow winter and summer tyres are very close. Winter is marginally better on the wet, summer is marginally better in the dry. Unless it snows, it doesn't matter!

For the 4th time now, you buy winter tyres so you can drive on ice and snow. They are of marginal or no benefit unless it snows.

If you don't buy winter tyres, you are betting that it won't snow this year or accepting you won't be driving if it does.

[davyk31]

It may not snow but almost certainly there will be icy mornings when the winter tyres will also be of an advantage.

[jimmylimmy]

Originally Posted by kaishang

Why doesn't Heathrow have more snow ploughs?

Why aren't there more gritting machines?

Why did grit supplies run low last year?

Why did the NHS have to go looking for private citizens with their own 4WDs last winter?

All because an economic decision was made that the costs of full preparation for a severe winter exceeded the benefits over a long period of time.

Winter tyres would have provided an obvious benefit to owners the last 2 years. Most of the last 2 decades before that they would have had minimal benefit.

Here is yet another test:
http://www.wintertyres.info/
Except on snow winter and summer tyres are very close. Winter is marginally better on the wet, summer is marginally better in the dry. Unless it snows, it doesn't matter!

For the 4th time now, you buy winter tyres so you can drive on ice and snow. They are of marginal or no benefit unless it snows.

If you don't buy winter tyres, you are betting that it won't snow this year or accepting you won't be driving if it does.

Seriously? Even your own link contradicts you:

5m difference in stopping distance is a significant amount!

"Winter Tyres are designed to deal with temperature conditions that adversely affect the performance of summer tyres"

"The point at which it does this is around 7 – 8 °C. So, the efficiency of summer tyres in the wet or dry in winter is diminished. Even without snow and ice, a winter tyre becomes a safer option in colder weather as shown in table below."

"In this test by an independent testing organization in Germany the summer tyres outperformed the winter lyres in both wet and dry conditions when the temperature was at 20 °C. However, when the temperature fell to 5 °C the performance of the summer tyre fell off markebly – much more than the winter tyre. Although it still retained an edge over the winter tyre on dry roads it performed much worse on wet roads. The conclusion is that when it is cold and wet, but not necessarily icy, winter tyres perform better."

[225_AB]

"For the 4th time now, you buy winter tyres so you can drive on ice and snow. They are of marginal or no benefit unless it snows."

That is not true. They are of significant benefit at temperatures below 7c.

[225_AB]

You can't just selectively quote articles (even they dont fully support your view). Read the full range of articles, autocar, auto bild, auto express, daily telegraph, and many more all make the case for winter tyres.

[kaishang]

That particular link shows a marginal benefit for winter tyres in wet conditions at 5C (which I myself pointed out when I posted it, you have not scored some point by pointing it out a second time)

- it is marginal, it is a 6.8% difference, less than 5 metres out of a 70 metre stopping distance. 6.8%, in the context of summer tyres on ice where stopping distances may increase by 500% over winter tyres. 6.8% also in the context of different brands of tyres showing about the same difference in stopping distance under the same conditions.

Other tests show the winter tyres perform less well, even in wet tyres and even in "winter tyre" temperatures.

That link also shows that winter tyres perform less well at 5C than summer tyres on dry roads.

So the conclusion is that depending on which test you believe, when it is cold and wet, winter tyres may be a little better or a little worse. When it is cold and dry, winter tyres are probably worse.


This "7 degree rule" what is that supposed to be? You can't change the tyres when the temperature goes above 7C, what do you do, have the winter tyres on in the morning then change them to summer tyres at lunch then back to winter tyres in the evening? No, if you choose to use summer or winter tyres during winter, at some stage during the winter you will have sub-optimal tyres on the car.

So there is no significant benefit to winter tyres in the *wet* at UK temperatures. If you believe that test, they stop you 6.8% faster in the wet and stop you slower in the dry. If you believe other tests, they stop you slower both in the wet and the dry.

So for the 5th time now; the reason you buy winter tyres is because summer tyres suck on ice and snow and make the car undrivable. That is the benefit of winter tyres. There is no benefit to UK motorists (or at least England/Wales) unless there is *snow* or *ice* on the road.

> If you don't want winter tyres then don't buy them. You shouldn't however peddle your prejudices dressed up as facts.

I've made it clear I'm not buying them. I've also made it clear that winter tyres work on snow and ice. I've made it clear that summer tyres do not work on snow and ice.

It is you posters above who are peddling your own opinions as you say that winter tyres offer *significant* benefits at cold teperatures even without snow and ice. The test results show that they do not offer any sigificant benefits. On non snow, non ice roads they may offer marginal benefits, in some conditions and perform slightly worse in others.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by kaishang

So for the 5th time now; the reason you buy winter tyres is because summer tyres suck on ice and snow and make the car undrivable. That is the benefit of winter tyres. There is no benefit to UK motorists (or at least England/Wales) unless there is *snow* or *ice* on the road.


It is you posters above who are peddling your own opinions as you say that winter tyres offer *significant* benefits at cold teperatures even without snow and ice. The test results show that they do not offer any sigificant benefits. On non snow, non ice roads they may offer marginal benefits, in some conditions and perform slightly worse in others.

Have you first hand experience of winter tyres ?

D.

[jimmylimmy]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Have you first hand experience of winter tyres ?

D.

what gives you that idea?

[F31-340i]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Have you first hand experience of winter tyres ?

D.

Don't think you'll get an answer to that

Ok, so saying im opting for winters, what size rims will fit over a 330ds calipers and what tyres would best?

You'll need 17" minimum - that's been the case since the original E46 330d.

My 17" x 7J alloys were only £100 off ebay. I fitted 205/50R17 - narrower tyres are better in snow.

The other benefit to actually having 2 sets of wheels is that its easy to DIY fix any dings, or send them off for refurb and also clean the wheels at your leisure off the car.

As my wheels were so cheap I refurbed myself - got the garage to remove the tyres so I could fix them without tyres (easier to apply and sand filler on the rims) as part of the cost of fitting winters later (£12 a corner).

[ed335d]

This is all getting a bit tyresome now, with the whole debate taking on some of the characteristics of an online 'religion vs. non-religion' debate.

From my own personal experience of running:

335d on RFT - Bridgestone
335d on non-RFT - Vredestein Sessantas
335d on winter tyres -Vredsetein Wintracs
M3 on non-RFT - Michelin PS2's & Vredestein Sessantas
M3 on winter tyres -Vredsetein Wintracs

I can safely say that the correct tyre for the prevailing conditions worked the best

However, with changeable conditions, it comes down to a percentage of optimal windows which can only be based on average statistics (the whole +/- 7 degrees debate).

While we can read as many reports that are published, they will never truly give a balanced view, as there are far too many variables (driver, tyre manufacturer, vehicle etc, etc, etc) - trying to then compare the results against a comparable data set of a whole new set of variables (i.e. winter vs. summer) is never going to give a proper, balanced view.

I believe that by running winter tyres between November and February significantly decreases my chances of having a weather-related incident (based on experience), so I do.

So there.

I also find that winter tyres are certainly better than RFT's in the wet, but could not categorically say what temperatures or water displacement volumes this conclusion is based on.

[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by ed335d

This is all getting a bit tyresome now

.........groan.....

Mike.

[mjh93sa]

Originally Posted by ed335d

This is all getting a bit tyresome now, with the whole debate taking on some of the characteristics of an online 'religion vs. non-religion' debate.

From my own personal experience of running:

335d on RFT - Bridgestone
335d on non-RFT - Vredestein Sessantas
335d on winter tyres -Vredsetein Wintracs
M3 on non-RFT - Michelin PS2's & Vredestein Sessantas
M3 on winter tyres -Vredsetein Wintracs

I can safely say that the correct tyre for the prevailing conditions worked the best

However, with changeable conditions, it comes down to a percentage of optimal windows which can only be based on average statistics (the whole +/- 7 degrees debate).

While we can read as many reports that are published, they will never truly give a balanced view, as there are far too many variables (driver, tyre manufacturer, vehicle etc, etc, etc) - trying to then compare the results against a comparable data set of a whole new set of variables (i.e. winter vs. summer) is never going to give a proper, balanced view.

I believe that by running winter tyres between November and February significantly decreases my chances of having a weather-related incident (based on experience), so I do.

So there.

I also find that winter tyres are certainly better than RFT's in the wet, but could not categorically say what temperatures or water displacement volumes this conclusion is based on.

(who isn't)

...and as for this thread

[ed335d]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

.........groan.....

Mike.

[briers]

Unfortunately this is just the start of these winter tyre threads. Prepare for many many more over the next 7 - 8 months. It started early this year.

I dont see what all the fuss is about. I was sceptical about them but still bought them and the difference when it matters is amazing.

[p1tse]

Originally Posted by ed335d

I can safely say that the correct tyre for the prevailing conditions worked the best

that's the story for F1 this year too ;-)