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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Is this what XI handling feels like?
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12-22-2008, 08:57 PM | #45 | |
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When you go thru high speed and make a hard lane change the body roll is too much.. Getting the kw v3 or M3 struts/sways cure most of the body roll.. Also kwv3 with 19's look dam good since there isnt any wheel gaps. Im going for the kwv3 soon but not sure how soon.. Maybe possibly never..But i might be getting struts for cheap nearby so might give them a try. |
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12-22-2008, 08:59 PM | #46 | |
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12-22-2008, 09:09 PM | #47 | |
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The problem with the UUC and H&R bar they work real good with the sock spring rates but the after market stuff tends stiffen the front and soften the rear spring and then those bars start throwing the balance off towards understeer with other issue as well. The bars have such huge effect that you really got watch what you pick. I suggested the front M3 bar bushing to match the rear. They are very stiff. This will ensure you keep thing matched as the stock bushing are considerably softer. The bar takes a fair bit out of body roll a well and you give up 0.2 degrees less body roll if you had a 27 mm front bar. It is a good compromise. The roll bar selection is up to you but since you had a rear M3 bar listed I commented. Orb Last edited by Orb; 12-22-2008 at 11:51 PM.. |
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12-22-2008, 09:11 PM | #48 | |
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The car will understeer abit more with KW if no correction is taken but this goes with amost every after market kit out there right now. You got to do skid pad in parking lot to notice for most of you. Orb Last edited by Orb; 12-22-2008 at 09:28 PM.. |
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12-22-2008, 10:03 PM | #49 | |
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KW focused too much on getting the car dropped as much as possible and in the mean time sacrificed the handling aspect of the kit. There's nothing wrong with the struts, but the springs they chose are horrible. I'm trying to hit up my tuner and see if they can find me some custom made linear springs to match up with the KW struts. I'm also taking out my UUC bars and replacing them with the stock front bar, M bushings, and the M rear bar, along with a bunch of rear M suspension upgrades, plus the M3 front strut tower brace. All thanks to Orb's pointers It's too bad that us XI owners can't benefit from the front suspension upgrades.
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12-22-2008, 11:39 PM | #50 | |
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I know you want more performance more than v3 can offer which is possible. When we look at bar selection with higher spring rate we want to change the frequency biasing to the front more than the BMW biasing and it just doesn’t want to work. If we could pick bars of our choosing it would be 26 mm solid front bar and 20 mm solid rear bar…that 1 mm extra in the front is huge in stiffness. We are fighting an up hill battle with the high motion ratio in the rear but it is achievable for higher spring rates. The rear m3 bar is ideal but we lose some roll and camber control as well. The M3 bar seems to best possible lowest cost solution with stiffer springs. Although we increased roll with the smaller roll bar will gain most of this back with stiffer bushings so it may be a wash. You be surprised how much roll those bushing induce. Kev, get rid of the front bar and put the stock one back on and test for few days. Understeer should reduce a fair amount. This is an easy test which is cheap to do. I'm assuming you have UUC rear bar. I have given up on the pipe dream of running the H&R bar as well. I know I can do it but it is not want I really wanted. I looked into tooling a new roll bar and that will cost about 5000.00 and another 2500.00 to forge the ends for low production run. I did get all the part numbers for you so look for some info tomorrow. Don’t hesitate to PM for a response. You can check HP Motorwerks for new M3 stuff that has been validated and there should be more to come. The two most important rear links will be listed shortly. If have any comments you can contact a KW rep on the board Glen@KW I think he would like to hear from you all if your not satisfied with an end solution. He wants to improve the product so if you say noting then it doesn’t get better. Orb Last edited by Orb; 12-23-2008 at 01:45 AM.. |
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12-23-2008, 10:16 PM | #52 |
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Kev, check your PM......
If anyone wants to help themselves I do need information on the weight on the unsprung mass of the front suspension. You simply need to take out the bolts that hold the strut to the tower and let the front well drop as low as possible on bath room scale. Please take several reading and then make them all down. I would also appreciate if any one can list of the specification for xi including front to rear weight distribution. I got some data but I like it form a good source. I will add this to load transfer worksheet and I will give you some baseline numbers on how to balances the car and lot more. If you work as group then you get some information how to setup the car rather than guessing. I don’t have this car and to busy to do this. Post information in this thread if anyone wishes to help. Orb |
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12-23-2008, 11:41 PM | #54 |
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Here are some base calculation for load transfer. It is not 100% accurate until verified so I made a few assumption but they are reasonable. Do not take this as prefect by any means. The magic number is phrase coined by some race car engineer but it means balanced in this range. This is at 1 G in corner
There results are based on the information I gave Kev. Orb Last edited by Orb; 11-25-2011 at 12:09 PM.. |
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01-21-2009, 10:05 PM | #55 |
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Is there a summary version of what M3 suspension parts can be used on a 335xi?? I tried following the thread but too much conflicting and incomplete information makes purchasing the right products difficult to tighten up the XI suspension.
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01-22-2009, 11:14 AM | #56 | |
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also, i would like to know if anyone has any good ideas on how to enhance acceleration... this is my first "real" car (coming off a '96 4Runner) and i'd like to make it a little quicker. thanks |
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01-22-2009, 12:15 PM | #57 |
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I also tend to think Nick is on to something here. I would be surprised to learn that BMW carefully designed, engineered, and tested their AWD cars to build in subpar performance. Of course, "feel" is entirely subjective, but it would indeed be interesting to see if the factory set-up objectively allows the car to get around a wet or dry course/route faster, or handle more safely in an emergency, as is.
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01-22-2009, 04:10 PM | #58 |
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Can anyone explain this - the guy with the 325xi talks about his car performing well in the turns and I know what he means. I have an 07 328xi sedan and an 08 335xi coupe. The sedan drives like it is on rails compared to the coupe - neither have any modifications. Why would there be such a big difference? There has to be an engineering explaination. Also, if you are wondering why I got the coupe if it drives so poorly - it is because I ordered it pre-production and never got to drive it before buying. I assumed it could only be better than a year earlier car with a smaller engine. Big mistake.
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01-22-2009, 04:50 PM | #59 |
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haha i love the way you assume that i'm a guy... i would think that it has something to do with the weight distribution. those 2 extra doors on the e90 add alot of weight that had to be put somewhere... i'll look that up
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01-23-2009, 10:55 AM | #61 | |
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03-04-2009, 06:14 PM | #63 | |
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Let me see if I am following with respect to Orb's Xi suggestions for those of us with the KW's: - The KW V3's should mean an improvement in the rate of body roll, but they will cause a slight bias toward understeer at the limit due to the relatively softer rear springs. - The stock front and (possibly) rear bars should be kept in place because aftermarket bar kits tend to stiffen the front relative to the rear, which is exactly the opposite of what the car needs. - The M3 rear bar, being smaller than the stock rear bar, is possibly a better match for the softer rear springs. - The M3 front and rear bushings should help--the rear is likely more important, but the front might be needed for balance if using the rear bushings. - Stiffer springs in the rear are likely the only real way to re-acquire the "BMW" balance. - A smaller 26mm bar in front would help but is not available. Am I following? Not sure about the M3 stuff. Last edited by louie_perm; 03-04-2009 at 07:33 PM.. |
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03-04-2009, 07:53 PM | #65 | |
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Best I can tell, if you're not replacing the stock springs, then I'm not sure it makes sense to change the bars. If you are changing the springs, then the specifics of the new springs are needed to determine if a sway bar (or other part) change is in order. |
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03-04-2009, 09:21 PM | #66 | |
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