Problem with high speed braking

cweiland · 08-12-2008, 02:10 AM

Hey guys,

with winter tires is my car making a “side step” on the front axle of about half a meter when doing a full braking above 230 km/h.

The car is 10 months old and has 18.000 km on the clock.

The tire is Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR, 225/45VR17, 94V.

The wheel is from a German supplier: ATU Aluett 621

This is independently from the roadway. Increasing the tire pressure did change nothing. The wheel is correctly balanced. The tire and the wheel are not damaged. I don’t have the issue with the summer tires.

ATU did send the tires (without the wheel as I wanted) to Continental.

Conti did tell me that the tire is Ok and that BMW is using wheels of type H2+ fort he SSR tire.

Can somebody tell me what H2+ is precisely?
I can’t find anything on the Internet.

The wheel of ATU has the following markings on it: 8Jx17H2.
Looks to me that these are H2 wheels, right?

On top, ATU did sell me tires with a higher weight capacity then necessary.
The winter tire is 94W.
The summer tire is 90 W.
Maybe that is the reason?

Anyways, these guys are kicking the ball between themselves and are not helping a lot.

Next time, I will buy genuine parts and making clear that I dont want Conti anymore.

Cheers
Christian

mapezzul · 08-12-2008, 07:06 AM

not sure what you mean by "side step"? Do you mean that when you hit the brakes the car pulls in one direction?
If so that may not have anything to do with the tires but could have to do with the brakes, for example if one is not biting as hard or even if there is more weight on one side of the car, if you have ABS (you should it is a BMW) you can steer and brake. Which way is the car pulling? DSC and or DTC will also intervene and manipulate the braking force to "steer" the car it the direction the wheel is going. There is a sensor on some models that reads the steering angle and then is sent onto the control module to make these necessary changes, there may be something up with your sensor (would not throw a code)...

little warm for winter tires, no?

CirrusSR22 · 08-12-2008, 09:28 AM

Don't you think it's too warm out to be driving on winter tires? I'm seeing high temps in Cologne right now at about 70F / 21C. No way I'd ever drive winter tires when it's that warm out.

TheWhiteStig · 08-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR has a speed rating of V which is equivalent to 240km/h in winter climate... You may be pushing the tires to its limit in a warmer than expected condition.

cweiland · 08-12-2008, 10:35 AM

<<Do you mean that when you hit the brakes the car pulls in one direction?<<
Yes

<<DSC and or DTC will also intervene and manipulate the braking force to "steer" the car it the direction the wheel is going. <<
The DSC/DTS lamp in the dashboard is not flashing in this case

<<there may be something up with your sensor (would not throw a code)...<<
Nope. It's not hapening with summer tires.

<<No way I'd ever drive winter tires when it's that warm out.<<
Of course I'm on summer tires now.
I'm fiddling around with this issue since last winter.

<<Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR has a speed rating of V which is equivalent to 240km/h in winter climate... <<
Its hapening at 0°C as well.

Does somebody know the difference between H2 and H2+ wheels?

exo-ak-dk · 08-12-2008, 02:00 PM

weird!......you have to find out the H2 and H2+ thing...

Arustik1 · 08-12-2008, 05:04 PM

Not sure, pressure maybe? Shit so interesting..

cweiland · 08-14-2008, 12:51 PM

BMW Germany did answer on my mail and are telling me that the following combinations are allowed:

225/45 R 17 91H M+S RSC on wheel 8J x 17 EH2/EH2+ ET 34mm
225/45 R 17 94V XL M+S RSC on wheel 8J x 17 EH2/EH2+ ET 34mm

The wheel for the winter tire is H2 only...
So its the wrong wheel...

The difference between H2 and EH2/EH2+ is shown in the attachment.

I will to have to kick some asses tomorow at ATU...

Cheers
Me

TheWhiteStig · 08-14-2008, 08:27 PM

Good to know! Thanks for the clarification.

08-12-2008, 02:10 AM	#1
cweiland Registered 1 Rep 3 Posts Drives: E90, 330i, 272 bhp, M, Manual Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cologne, Germany iTrader: (0)	Problem with high speed braking Hey guys, with winter tires is my car making a “side step” on the front axle of about half a meter when doing a full braking above 230 km/h. The car is 10 months old and has 18.000 km on the clock. The tire is Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR, 225/45VR17, 94V. The wheel is from a German supplier: ATU Aluett 621 This is independently from the roadway. Increasing the tire pressure did change nothing. The wheel is correctly balanced. The tire and the wheel are not damaged. I don’t have the issue with the summer tires. ATU did send the tires (without the wheel as I wanted) to Continental. Conti did tell me that the tire is Ok and that BMW is using wheels of type H2+ fort he SSR tire. Can somebody tell me what H2+ is precisely? I can’t find anything on the Internet. The wheel of ATU has the following markings on it: 8Jx17H2. Looks to me that these are H2 wheels, right? On top, ATU did sell me tires with a higher weight capacity then necessary. The winter tire is 94W. The summer tire is 90 W. Maybe that is the reason? Anyways, these guys are kicking the ball between themselves and are not helping a lot. Next time, I will buy genuine parts and making clear that I dont want Conti anymore. Cheers Christian
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

08-12-2008, 07:06 AM	#2
mapezzul Special Agent 74 Rep 1,731 Posts Drives: Depends on the day! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bavaria iTrader: (1)	not sure what you mean by "side step"? Do you mean that when you hit the brakes the car pulls in one direction? If so that may not have anything to do with the tires but could have to do with the brakes, for example if one is not biting as hard or even if there is more weight on one side of the car, if you have ABS (you should it is a BMW) you can steer and brake. Which way is the car pulling? DSC and or DTC will also intervene and manipulate the braking force to "steer" the car it the direction the wheel is going. There is a sensor on some models that reads the steering angle and then is sent onto the control module to make these necessary changes, there may be something up with your sensor (would not throw a code)... little warm for winter tires, no? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by mapezzul; 08-12-2008 at 10:20 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-12-2008, 09:28 AM	#3
CirrusSR22 Major 342 Rep 1,325 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota iTrader: (0)	Don't you think it's too warm out to be driving on winter tires? I'm seeing high temps in Cologne right now at about 70F / 21C. No way I'd ever drive winter tires when it's that warm out.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-12-2008, 10:00 AM	#4
TheWhiteStig Tame Racing Driver 4 Rep 69 Posts Drives: 428i Sportline Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR has a speed rating of V which is equivalent to 240km/h in winter climate... You may be pushing the tires to its limit in a warmer than expected condition.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-12-2008, 10:35 AM	#5
cweiland Registered 1 Rep 3 Posts Drives: E90, 330i, 272 bhp, M, Manual Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cologne, Germany iTrader: (0)	<<Do you mean that when you hit the brakes the car pulls in one direction?<< Yes <<DSC and or DTC will also intervene and manipulate the braking force to "steer" the car it the direction the wheel is going. << The DSC/DTS lamp in the dashboard is not flashing in this case <<there may be something up with your sensor (would not throw a code)...<< Nope. It's not hapening with summer tires. <<No way I'd ever drive winter tires when it's that warm out.<< Of course I'm on summer tires now. I'm fiddling around with this issue since last winter. <<Continental ContiWinterContact TS810S SSR has a speed rating of V which is equivalent to 240km/h in winter climate... << Its hapening at 0°C as well. Does somebody know the difference between H2 and H2+ wheels?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-12-2008, 02:00 PM	#6
exo-ak-dk Black Magic Wheels - BMW 36 Rep 1,090 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denmark iTrader: (0)	weird!......you have to find out the H2 and H2+ thing...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-12-2008, 05:04 PM	#7
Arustik1 HYEPWR 99 Rep 2,868 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ iTrader: (3) Garage List 2007 E92 335i [0.00]	Not sure, pressure maybe? Shit so interesting.. __________________ 2002 330ci Titanium Silver / Gray 2005 X5 3.0i Black Sapphire Metallic / Black 2002 M3 Laguna Seca Blue / Black 2001 M5 Jet Black / Black
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-14-2008, 12:51 PM	#8
cweiland Registered 1 Rep 3 Posts Drives: E90, 330i, 272 bhp, M, Manual Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cologne, Germany iTrader: (0)	BMW Germany did answer on my mail and are telling me that the following combinations are allowed: 225/45 R 17 91H M+S RSC on wheel 8J x 17 EH2/EH2+ ET 34mm 225/45 R 17 94V XL M+S RSC on wheel 8J x 17 EH2/EH2+ ET 34mm The wheel for the winter tire is H2 only... So its the wrong wheel... The difference between H2 and EH2/EH2+ is shown in the attachment. I will to have to kick some asses tomorow at ATU... Cheers Me Attached Images
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-14-2008, 08:27 PM	#9
TheWhiteStig Tame Racing Driver 4 Rep 69 Posts Drives: 428i Sportline Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	Good to know! Thanks for the clarification.
	Appreciate 0 Quote