Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo: Creaminz 58mm 6AT Independent Testing Results

OpenFlash · 10-01-2012, 07:33 PM

Hi guys,
Been busy at the shop lately. But here is some info I got this morning from one of our 6AT single turbo customers (Creaminz). He lives in southern California and is preparing for some kind of magazine shootout. So yesterday, his car was tested at Buttonwillow Raceway where he said it performed flawlessly (with Ivan at LTBMW behind the wheel). He ran it a 20psi which was far too much power for this tires (sounds like fun to me!). It didn't overheat or limp in any way. The only issue they had a charge pipe that popped off at the throttle body. Once tightened down, the car was good to go.

And then today, he took the car to EAS (http://www.europeanautosource.com) to test it on their in-house Dynojet. We were not present during these tests (400 miles away). Until today, the most power an n54 ever put down on that dyno, according to EAS, was 470whp. Despite the 102F shop temps, Creaminz car put down:

Logs:

We've tested similarly equipped 58mm single turbo 6ATs ourselves and they routinely make 570-575whp. But those tests were done in 60-80F temps, not 100+

Logs look fine. Timing is good. Fuel trims are identical (although we've since then updated the map to offer more open loop fueling above 5500rpm). And on-boost AFR is rock solid at ~11.9:1.

But as you can see, we are still working diligently on getting the transmission control unit to shift at 7000+ RPM. If we can do that, the car can easily make 600+whp at the same boost level. Currently, this is why 6MTs have a top end advantage now since they make power up to 7200rpm. But you'd never realize that after driving a single turbo 6AT. There is a lot to say about no losing boost between gears

M3_Dylan · 10-01-2012, 07:38 PM

impressive

tmo335tt · 10-01-2012, 08:03 PM

Legit

skinrock · 10-01-2012, 08:21 PM

He picked a bad day for a dyno with this heat wave and all, lol. Impressive stuff.

335xi Kevo · 10-01-2012, 08:26 PM

amazing!

skinrock · 10-01-2012, 08:28 PM

Hey Shiv, could you briefly speak on this 7000+ shift point for autos. I don't want to change the subject, but are there any concerns if the 6AT can handle this?

OpenFlash · 10-01-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinrock

Hey Shiv, could you briefly speak on this 7000+ shift point for autos. I don't want to change the subject, but are there any concerns if the 6AT can handle this?

Not much to say until we can program the TCU to do so. But I suspect it will handle the extra revs just fine. The 6AT transmission isn't nearly as failure prone as others have suggested. Just as long as you avoid high boost, sustained brake torqueing and control boost properly during upshifts, the transmissions will remain slip-free. We have several single turbo 6AT cars, running well over 20psi for several months. And no issues to report.

Shiv

N54_Fan · 10-01-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Not much to say until we can program the TCU to do so. But I suspect it will handle the extra revs just fine. The 6AT transmission isn't nearly as failure prone as others have suggested. Just as long as you avoid high boost, sustained brake torqueing and control boost properly during upshifts, the transmissions will remain slip-free. We have several single turbo 6AT cars, running well over 20psi for several months. And no issues to report.

Shiv

Is your modification of the TCU something that people WITHOUT a single turbo could benefit from? I would think that would be the case but propbably even more benefot with a single turbo. Could you also elaborate on what you are trying to change in the TCU? Thanks.

By the way,...impressive results for a 6AT.

OpenFlash · 10-01-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N54_Fan

Is your modification of the TCU something that people WITHOUT a single turbo could benefit from? I would think that would be the case but propbably even more benefot with a single turbo. Could you also elaborate on what you are trying to change in the TCU? Thanks.

By the way,...impressive results for a 6AT.

With stock or upgraded twins, power reaches its peak well before 6800rpm so remapping the TCU to shift later wont have any benefit. But with single turbos, being able to shift 500rpm later will be worth another 50-60whp on top of the big number they are already making since they will continue to make power up to (and potentially beyond) 7200RPM.

Shiv

pits200 · 10-01-2012, 09:23 PM

Will he be posting time slips of his runs?

Wedge1967 · 10-01-2012, 09:38 PM

Any reason for an AT car not to go with a 62mm once you have the TCU updated to shift accordingly?

Also, is there any chance you can configure the converter to stall with a 2-Step option for launching?

Laguna Seca Blue · 10-01-2012, 09:42 PM

How much whp? The graph is too small to read clearly on my phone.

DallasBoosted · 10-01-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue

How much whp? The graph is too small to read clearly on my phone.

564

pHo_e92 · 10-01-2012, 10:44 PM

what octane gas was used for this run?

creaminz · 10-02-2012, 12:05 AM

Thanks for posting up the graphs Shiv. Car is a blast to drive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHo_e92

what octane gas was used for this run?

100oct + Meth. I was driving with high boost today...man car is just pure animal...1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, I mean any gear pull is just absolute beast. I need better tires

If 7000rpm becomes reality, 600 to the wheels should be piece of cake. Even Steve @ EAS told me "it's nice to see how this car keeps making better numbers on each run." , "very consistent."

ragingpanda · 10-02-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creaminz

Thanks for posting up the graphs Shiv. Car is a blast to drive!

100oct + Meth. I was driving with high boost today...man car is just pure animal...1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, I mean any gear pull is just absolute beast. I need better tires

If 7000rpm becomes reality, 600 to the wheels should be piece of cake. Even Steve @ EAS told me "it's nice to see how this car keeps making better numbers on each run." , "very consistent."

Are you going to take it to the dragstrip anytime soon?

twinturbopg · 10-02-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creaminz

Thanks for posting up the graphs Shiv. Car is a blast to drive!

You were flying on the track on Sunday...I wish I knew when you passed me, I would have love to seen that up close in between sessions.

How was your oil extra? I was limping in two sessions. I'm curious what type of cooling do you have on your car?

N54_Fan · 10-02-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinturbopg

You were flying on the track on Sunday...I wish I knew when you passed me, I would have love to seen that up close in between sessions.

How was your oil extra? I was limping in two sessions. I'm curious what type of cooling do you have on your car?

+1 curious as well. As an AT here that eventually I am looking at tracking a 500+ WHP car on a regular basis I am thinking about reliability at the present time. Do you have any cooling or transmission mods?

CPWINCH · 10-02-2012, 07:28 PM

why cant we shift past 6500? its like having a n55 lol

TLO03 · 10-02-2012, 08:09 PM

is there any single turbo AT xi's?

skinrock · 10-02-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

why cant we shift past 6500? its like having a n55 lol

It's limited in the TCU, that's why Shiv is trying to adjust it.

CPWINCH · 10-02-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinrock

It's limited in the TCU, that's why Shiv is trying to adjust it.

what i meant was why does the tcu limit single turbo cars and not stock, rb turbo cars, if that makes sense.
and what happens if you hold the peddle down till 6500? auto shift?

10-01-2012, 07:33 PM	#1
OpenFlash 1736 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo: Creaminz 58mm 6AT Independent Testing Results Hi guys, Been busy at the shop lately. But here is some info I got this morning from one of our 6AT single turbo customers (Creaminz). He lives in southern California and is preparing for some kind of magazine shootout. So yesterday, his car was tested at Buttonwillow Raceway where he said it performed flawlessly (with Ivan at LTBMW behind the wheel). He ran it a 20psi which was far too much power for this tires (sounds like fun to me!). It didn't overheat or limp in any way. The only issue they had a charge pipe that popped off at the throttle body. Once tightened down, the car was good to go. And then today, he took the car to EAS (http://www.europeanautosource.com) to test it on their in-house Dynojet. We were not present during these tests (400 miles away). Until today, the most power an n54 ever put down on that dyno, according to EAS, was 470whp. Despite the 102F shop temps, Creaminz car put down: Logs: We've tested similarly equipped 58mm single turbo 6ATs ourselves and they routinely make 570-575whp. But those tests were done in 60-80F temps, not 100+ Logs look fine. Timing is good. Fuel trims are identical (although we've since then updated the map to offer more open loop fueling above 5500rpm). And on-boost AFR is rock solid at ~11.9:1. But as you can see, we are still working diligently on getting the transmission control unit to shift at 7000+ RPM. If we can do that, the car can easily make 600+whp at the same boost level. Currently, this is why 6MTs have a top end advantage now since they make power up to 7200rpm. But you'd never realize that after driving a single turbo 6AT. There is a lot to say about no losing boost between gears Last edited by OpenFlash; 10-01-2012 at 07:54 PM..
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10-01-2012, 07:38 PM	#2
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skinrock Agent Smith 270 Rep 3,344 Posts Drives: 2016 i8 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: The Matrix iTrader: (9) Garage List 2016 BMW i8 [10.00]	He picked a bad day for a dyno with this heat wave and all, lol. Impressive stuff. __________________ The i8 needs a V8 amirite?
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skinrock Agent Smith 270 Rep 3,344 Posts Drives: 2016 i8 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: The Matrix iTrader: (9) Garage List 2016 BMW i8 [10.00]	Hey Shiv, could you briefly speak on this 7000+ shift point for autos. I don't want to change the subject, but are there any concerns if the 6AT can handle this? __________________ The i8 needs a V8 amirite?
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10-01-2012, 09:23 PM	#10
pits200 Colonel 547 Rep 2,590 Posts Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (1)	Will he be posting time slips of his runs?
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Wedge1967 Banned 125 Rep 2,172 Posts Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (3)	Any reason for an AT car not to go with a 62mm once you have the TCU updated to shift accordingly? Also, is there any chance you can configure the converter to stall with a 2-Step option for launching?
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CPWINCH Brigadier General 732 Rep 4,635 Posts Drives: Toyota Prius Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (7)	why cant we shift past 6500? its like having a n55 lol __________________ Follow my BMW instagram @CARMODIFICATION Let me know you are from bimmerpost and i'll follow back
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