[rmdvrs]

Originally Posted by pcmike

I've done it maybe 10 times or so and the screw holes in the air filter are 100% stripped. The screws just spin, there may be one that actually screws in at this point. Same thing with every one else's car who has had the tune in and out more than a few times. Also, the more times you pull the power terminal out of the PROcede harness, the more likely you are to eventually snap it. After all it's just a little thin piece of metal, it becomes fatigued over time. Hey, I'm not knocking any tune due to the installation.... but there are way more risks involved with installing a piggyback than the Cobb.

Dude, I don't know how you are tightening your bolts down but I have done it way more than ten times and mine are no where near 100% stripped. Mine tighten down just fine. The sides of the plastic guides are worn a little but nothing as bad as you say. So I don't know what you have been doing but it's not the same as everyone else' car. If that were the case then there would have been a lot more posts back in the beginning when these tunes first came out complaining that they were being stripped, especially if it's after just a few times.

I can't speak for the proceed but I have not had that problem with the JB. I have had my Jb since it first came out and have gone through every iteration so that's a lot of pulling, installing, uninstalling, etc. and while it may not be in brand new condition i have not had any of the problems you have gone through. So either you got a bad unit or your doing something wrong. Then again it could just be me, I tend to be a perfectionist. People trust me to cut them open so imagine how precise I am with my car, which I love.

I'm not saying your knocking any tune, just that you could be scaring someone away from a product that may better suit his needs with your comments that are not very accurate. That is why I asked him what he meant by easy to install and what he plans on doing to his car.

[pcmike]

I'm not sure how you can claim they're not very accurate, there are plenty of posts in the past and every few weeks where people talk about snapping a clip here, bending a pin there, etc. Lots of people have managed to snap the power terminal when installing/uninstalling the PROcede. Plus, I'm not making this stuff about the air filter up. I know more than a couple people who are local to me who have had to just goto home depot and buy new screws because the plastic holes have become stripped. I'm sorry, but I have OCD with the best of them, and it's a 100% true statement that there are definitely risks associated with repeated install/uninstall and those risks go up after each and every time, to not explain that to someone is doing them a disservice.

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by pcmike

I'm not sure how you can claim they're not very accurate, there are plenty of posts in the past and every few weeks where people talk about snapping a clip here, bending a pin there, etc. Lots of people have managed to snap the power terminal when installing/uninstalling the PROcede. Plus, I'm not making this stuff about the air filter up. I know more than a couple people who are local to me who have had to just goto home depot and buy new screws because the plastic holes have become stripped. I'm sorry, but I have OCD with the best of them, and it's a 100% true statement that there are definitely risks associated with repeated install/uninstall and those risks go up after each and every time, to not explain that to someone is doing them a disservice.

If that's true, you ought to channel your OCD into a bit of practice time, such that you learn how to properly torque screws without overtightening them. In fact, it's likely that your OCDness has contributed to your problem.

If you're using a powered driver, don't.

[pcmike]

Thanks for the advice bud, but I'm not and I'm pretty sure I know how to tighten a freaking screw.

[bkrM3]

Last time I had to uninstall my Cobb I hit the "uninstall" button, set down the AP unit on the front seat, went inside and poured myself a beer.

Just sayin'

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Thanks for the advice bud, but I'm not and I'm pretty sure I know how to tighten a freaking screw.

Based upon your own comments here, and my own experience, I'm pretty sure you don't. You are over torquing in an effort to make sure they're "tight", and stripping them in the process. (This is very common!) Get yourself as small torque driver and pay attention to torque spec. You'll find that what feels "tight" is actually too tight, thus stripping out the screws and/or threads. I've had the relevant components in and out of my E90 many, many times, and I have yet to replace a screw or tap and thread.

You can find appropriate specs here, though they aren't specific to the E9x. Once you get the hang of what the right torque feels like, you won't need to use a torque driver anymore...

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechData/torq/bmw_torq.pdf

[rmdvrs]

Originally Posted by pcmike

I'm not sure how you can claim they're not very accurate, there are plenty of posts in the past and every few weeks where people talk about snapping a clip here, bending a pin there, etc. Lots of people have managed to snap the power terminal when installing/uninstalling the PROcede. Plus, I'm not making this stuff about the air filter up. I know more than a couple people who are local to me who have had to just goto home depot and buy new screws because the plastic holes have become stripped. I'm sorry, but I have OCD with the best of them, and it's a 100% true statement that there are definitely risks associated with repeated install/uninstall and those risks go up after each and every time, to not explain that to someone is doing them a disservice.

I can't speak for the procede other than from what I see posted on the forums but I can about the JB from personal experience, helping others and posts. In general I guarantee you if we took a poll most people that have become proficient at the install/uninstall can do it in 15-20, not 45 minutes. Now as far as breaking things there have been posts, I don't know about every few weeks, but now and again there definitely has been about people breaking things but if you really read them you would have seen that the majority of those posts involve first installs and not people who have become proficient at it. The greatest risk at breaking something exists with people who are new to the piggyback tunes and are doing their first install. From there on the risk goes down as the proficiency level goes up. Of course there is still a risk of breaking something no matter how proficient you are and how many times you have done the install/uninstall, as things undergo wear and tear but the greatest risk is that first time. I don't know about the procede but I have never snapped the power terminal on my JB, or any pins, or broken anything else in the engine bay. In fact the techs working on my car at the dealer have broken more stuff than I have.

I'm not saying your making the stuff about the air filter up, just that you are overestimating the degree to which it is a problem solely based on your and a few friends experience. I have friends who haven't stripped their screws so then the question remains is your experience typical or is mine because for every person you know that has stripped their screws I know someone who hasn't.

You may have OCD with the best of them but that doesn't mean you didn't over tighten your screws. In fact people think being OCD means your a perfectionist. It doesn't, what it means is that you perform certain obsessions to counteract whatever compulsion you may be thinking. Even if being OCD meant that you tried to do everything perfectly it doesn't mean that over tightening the screws on the filter is not possible. I remember the first time I did it I tightened them relatively tight and then one day at Terry's house he commented how tight I did it and that they don't need to be that tight. He showed me how tight they come from the factory and how the techs are told to do it and from there on I have done it that way and have had no problems. So I got educated and am now better for it. The same applies to you. You just need to realize that it's possible that you have been over tightening the screws along with many other people. I consider my self relatively well informed when it comes to cars and I'm sure you do too but no matter how much you know there is always something new you can learn from someone and be able to admit that you were doing something wrong.

Yes it's a 100% true statement that there are definitely risks associated with repeated install/uninstall but those risks go down after each and every time because you become more proficient and can foresee any problems. Think of it this way, which would you rather go to, a surgeon who has removed one gallbladder or a surgeon who has done 500? Is there a risk involved with the procedure every time? Yes, but does that risk go up or down as a surgeon repeatedly does the procedure and becomes more and more comfortable with it.

[pcmike]

Lol, alright guys. Repeated install and uninstall is not an issue and you will not strip any plastic screw holes. I'm just a complete idiot and clearly don't know how to use a screwdriver; oh any everyone else I know with stripped plastic screw holes is also clearly stupid as well, happy? The fact that the dealer admitted that it's a common problem also just makes all his mechanics idiots as well. I mean, clearly the theory that repeated twisting of metal into plastic results in stripped holes has no basis in reality because plastic is clearly much stronger than steal in all cases.

I give up...


At the end of the day, using the Cobb is 100% easier than installing/uninstalling a piggyback, ESPECIALLY IF your car is under warranty and will be going in and out of the dealer under said warranty and that's really the important take home message. If you're able to get the piggyback of your choice in and out in pitch dark with out stripping and screw holes and without breaking anything else more power to you (literallly for now), but I'll take the ease of use of the Cobb after dealing with the other for over a year now.

[FastBimmerN54]

I think most points here are moot. Run what you want. At the end of the day as long as your happy who cares, right?

[pcmike]

Exactly

[OpenFlash]

Unless you are trying to screw into Jello, the only mechanism for stripping the material is over-tightening. If you don't over-tighten it, it can't possibly strip.

[rader1]

I don't see the point in this thread being more than 1 post. The easiest to install is the cobb, as soon as you pull the hood release you've already done more work than the cobb requires... this isn't a discussion as to proper biggyback install procedures, is which tune is easiest to install. obd2 plug and play is, and always will be, the easiest

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Lol, alright guys. Repeated install and uninstall is not an issue and you will not strip any plastic screw holes. I'm just a complete idiot and clearly don't know how to use a screwdriver; oh any everyone else I know with stripped plastic screw holes is also clearly stupid as well, happy? The fact that the dealer admitted that it's a common problem also just makes all his mechanics idiots as well. I mean, clearly the theory that repeated twisting of metal into plastic results in stripped holes has no basis in reality...

Actually, that's pretty much fact.

LOL.

As far as warranty is concerned, I submit that the folks at BMW Deutschland can more readily detect evidence of a prior flash tune than they can a properly installed/uninstalled piggyback like the Procede. (That said, a case with Germany is fairly unlikely provided you've treated your dealer reasonably, withe reasonable expectations, and haven't abused your vehicle.)

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Lol, alright guys. Repeated install and uninstall is not an issue and you will not strip any plastic screw holes. I'm just a complete idiot and clearly don't know how to use a screwdriver; oh any everyone else I know with stripped plastic screw holes is also clearly stupid as well, happy? The fact that the dealer admitted that it's a common problem also just makes all his mechanics idiots as well. I mean, clearly the theory that repeated twisting of metal into plastic results in stripped holes has no basis in reality...

Actually, that's pretty much fact.

LOL.

As far as warranty is concerned, I submit that the folks at BMW Deutschland can more readily detect evidence of a prior flash tune than they can a properly installed/uninstalled piggyback like the Procede. (That said, a case with Germany is fairly unlikely provided you've treated your dealer reasonably, with reasonable expectations, and haven't abused your vehicle.)

[Licit]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

I think most points here are moot. Run what you want. At the end of the day as long as your happy who cares, right?

I agree but as the OP I was just trying to see what the ease of install was with the other tuners since they have features that the Cobb does not. I figured if there was one that was easier than the others, installing in half the time or something, it might sway me from getting a Cobb. Prior to now I've only had tuners like the cobb or twice I was street tuned by a guy using hptuners suite with wideband o2 sensor. The hptuners tuning was great because it was tailored to my car using real time driving data and then stopping to update the tune. Everything optimized for my exact mods. It looks like the Cobb is the way to go as their updates in the future will do exactly what I am wanting in the long run.