[timzerofive]

I've been busy, haven't taken a pic yet. If you're in so cal, you're welcome to come by and take a look.

[timzerofive]

Got some pics. N8rider brought me back the lip he bought and painted because the body shop doesn't know how to put it on. I told him I'll test fit it on my car then give it back to him once I'm sure of the fitment. I removed the center grill pieces to install the lip because you either gotta grind a little off the grill or off the lip. I believe the real original hartge lip they cut the lip itself. Either way is good. But here's some picture of it on the car. Tomorrow I will be fitting this onto his car and then take some more pictures.

[longtran]

interesting, i bought one and it sucks. the fitment was retarded. there was a lot of work on the lip to make it fit. seem like it fit good here. is this the real hartge lip or the copied one? i take it you know a guy name warner?

[timzerofive]

This is the replica one. Dunno that guy though. I know a couple of guys from different shops bought the lip from me, either the one you bought is one that they fucked up or probably they try to copy it and did a bad job.

This is one of the replica a guy on this forum bought. He said the body shop he took it to said it doesn't fit AFTER they painted it, so he brought it to me so I said I'll see what I can do. The hardest part was wrestling off the grill piece, and if you can tell in the picture, I broke one of the flippn clip off. Then the lip just fits right on.

Haha, I want to post this in another thread and tell people I decide to go two tone with my car, see how many people I can piss off! hahahahah

Well sorry the one you bought sucked, should've bought it from me, but anyways, if you need shops that can fix and install it for u, I might be able to find someone for you.

[lux.sh]

Timzerofive, not to burst your bubbles(I was supporting this replica lip actually), but it seems like quite alot of the buyers are complaining of fitment.

I won't say who, but there is this person I talked to(who got this lip) and he isn't quite satisfied with the quality and fitment. He's been kind enough to update me with status, and It didn't sound so good.

You advertised as it fits perfectly fine. To be honest with you, I am quite disappointed with feedbacks from other buyers. I was planning to buy one off you soon, but now with all these negative feedbacks regarding this replica lip, I am not so sure whether I should buy it or not.

I haven't heard of a complaint from real hartge lip owners regarding its quality or fitment. Also, real hartge doesn't require drilling or any modification to fit it to OEM e90 front bumper from what I heard.

You advertise your sales with pictures of real hartge lips. Thats a very mis-leading advertisement in my opinion. Test fit a replica to e90, see if it really fits as you advertise. I remember I asked you for pictures, and you didn't have any of the replica. I know in general, that you shouldn't expect much from replica fitment, but when someone pays over $300 for a replica, they expect at least "some" quality fitment.

I hope I didn't sound like a rude person, I just wanted to share what I heard with fellow E90 members. I don't any E90 members to pay such high cost for a replica and not be satisfied with it. I am not saying you rip people off, so If you can clarify a bit, that'll be great.

p.s: are you selling these on ebay? there are hartge replica lips being sold in ebay for around $300 i believe(this one seller is selling multiple of them on ebay). Again, the pictures they advertise are real hartge lip, not the replica ones. I don't understand how the seller claims "perfect fitment" in the listing, when they don't even have pictures of the real replica ones.

[timzerofive]

Haha
You know, I really WOULD like to find out who you've been speaking to. Truth is I've only sold ONE lip to a person off of this forum. Every other lip I sold was off the forum. People on this forum has not come through with their promises and I thats why I stopped offering the group buy. And the only person on the forum who bought it is the person with the lip you see in the picture. I provided his username up there also and he can guaranty you it's not the original, but the replica.

Also, real hartge lip DOES require slight modification to fit. The same modification required to fit the replica lip on. Look on the very first page of this thread where I took a picture of the real hartge lip, you see the 2 post coming up the middle that suppose to slide over the bumper's post, tell me how you can get it over the silver grill pieces without cutting one or the other.

I advertise on the first thread with the real hartge lip and I specifically said it's the real one. And the pictures above are the replicas, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I really would appreciate it if you decide to start criticizing a person or product, you base your information on something real.

PS. I did sell one lip off ebay for $390 under the name overhauling. I just did a search and don't see anyone on ebay selling those right now. Like I mentioned in the above posting, I sold numerous lips to local shops and whatever they do with it I have no control over. If they decided to copy it and sell it on ebay, there's not much I can do. You want to try them, go ahead, whether they'll fit or not, you take your chances.

[NBRider88]

The lip above in the pictures is my REPLICA lip that i bought from timezero. After the body shop painted it they told me they didnt know how to install the lip.....retards. Anyways i brought it back to timezero to help, and make sure it would be able to fit. As you can see my REPLICA HARTGE LIP fits rather good on his car, (from the pictures, but i am still gonna check it out in real life) so im sure it fits good on mine. So i am pleased. I plan on taking it over to his friends shop today to have it installed and i will post some new pictures of it on my car. Thanks timezero for the help

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Haha
You know, I really WOULD like to find out who you've been speaking to. Truth is I've only sold ONE lip to a person off of this forum. Every other lip I sold was off the forum. People on this forum has not come through with their promises and I thats why I stopped offering the group buy. And the only person on the forum who bought it is the person with the lip you see in the picture. I provided his username up there also and he can guaranty you it's not the original, but the replica.

Also, real hartge lip DOES require slight modification to fit. The same modification required to fit the replica lip on. Look on the very first page of this thread where I took a picture of the real hartge lip, you see the 2 post coming up the middle that suppose to slide over the bumper's post, tell me how you can get it over the silver grill pieces without cutting one or the other.

I advertise on the first thread with the real hartge lip and I specifically said it's the real one. And the pictures above are the replicas, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I really would appreciate it if you decide to start criticizing a person or product, you base your information on something real.

PS. I did sell one lip off ebay for $390 under the name overhauling. I just did a search and don't see anyone on ebay selling those right now. Like I mentioned in the above posting, I sold numerous lips to local shops and whatever they do with it I have no control over. If they decided to copy it and sell it on ebay, there's not much I can do. You want to try them, go ahead, whether they'll fit or not, you take your chances.

Base my information on something real? Are you saying im lying?
Why would come in this thread all of sudden when I wanted support a group buy for this? You need to watch your mouth. My information was from a buyer of yours, who is now satisfied because you finally took an action to take responsibility. Thank god the buyer was local and you were able to help him.

As for ebay, I was simply asking you if you were selling them. No reason for you to be an a$$ about it. Why are you over-reacting anyway? And you never really did post replica pic until now. You finally posted one up. I never said you posted false advertisement, yet "mis-leading" advertisement. Anyone who doesn't read carefully can assume it could be the lip they are getting.

You also didn't say much about modification. In the PMs you sent me regarding my concern about the fitment, you said,
"I've test fitted one on my car with no problem"
"I really don't have anything to show you through email but all I can say is you don't have to worry about the fitment"

You really did make it sound like it just fits right in.

If you are a good seller and want reputation, you really shouldn't act this way.
Post a detailed instruction on how to install/modify the lip, and compare it with real hartge lip.

I have cash ready(I was going to buy a real one), so like I said in my previous post, clarify things more clearly. Maybe i'll buy one too.

[longtran]

i experience the lip. here is my opinon. i would not but this junk....its horrible. a lip should be something you can just put on by yourself. the guy i bought this lip from claims to be your friend. he mention "a guy with a black e90 is gonna do a fitment soon" i take it was you. anyways, if a real hartge lip have so much work to get it on, i rather stick to hamann....

[NaTuReB0Y]

+1....longtran.....

I saw the replica......and it's a piece of shit. It doesn't fit!
If you try to force it in....it will scratch your front bumper....
Cause more trouble than good......too much modification for it to work!
Sorry longtran...that you have to go through with this piece of crap!

[auto-mark]

In the interest of accuracy, the authentic HARTGE version requires little if any rework. Comprehensive installation instructions with pictures (1.74Mb file!) are posted at http://www.auto-mark.com/e90lipspoilerinstall.doc for your reference.

Mark

[kt157]

wow, im glad i didn't order 1

[longtran]

Originally Posted by auto-mark

In the interest of accuracy, the authentic HARTGE version requires little if any rework. Comprehensive installation instructions with pictures (1.74Mb file!) are posted at http://www.auto-mark.com/e90lipspoilerinstall.doc for your reference.

Mark

yea thats what i thought too. nice post....maybe i should conder the hartge lip.

[timzerofive]

Haha, no rework necessary? This is the exact amount of work you'll have to do with the replica. Read the instruction ... AND didn't you mention that the original does not need ANY screws, well why would they include screws and ask you to use them in the instruction.

Thank you for this instruction manual as it proves my point. All I'm trying to do is offer people on here a lower price alternative with the same quality since I have the connection to do so. I'm not on here trying to rip people off as I make plenty at my job that I don't have to try to con people on here out of a few dollars. I offered anyone local to come take a look at the lip in person before they decide to buy. I even went out of my way to show the person who bought my lip on this board the original one just so he can judge if it will be worth it. I didn't do this for anyone else who I sold it to off this forum because I wanted to provide a nice service for people on this online community.

Anyways I'm done talking about this. Judge for yourself after you read the instruction.

8. Assemble and as necessary adapt HARTGE front spoiler lip onto production part. We recommend using (installing) the grill lattices and fog headlights for adaptation, to insure accurate fit and avoid later assembly difficulties.

9. Using adhesive provided, bond HARTGE front spoiler lip at the contacting surfaces with production spoiler/valance, and allow to set for at least 6 hours. NOTE: Surfaces must be clean and wax/grease-free. Afterwards, review and sand transition areas as required, filling and smoothing as necessary with body putty (image 9).

10. Paint front apron/spoiler to match, using normal automotive painting processes for "fiberglass" parts.

11. Reassemble remaining parts in the reverse order of disassembly.

12. Rework/cut the rubber lip of the wheel housing inside paneling as shown

13. The (lower) perimeter trim of the grill lattices (if reused) must be shortened somewhat, in order to avoid binding/tension with the installation (image 8).

14. Use three screws provided to bolt the HARTGE front spoiler lip and lower engine cowling bolt together. Remark: The outside screws underneath the interior fender are no longer used (images 1 & 2).

[longtran]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Haha, no rework necessary? This is the exact amount of work you'll have to do with the replica. Read the instruction ... AND didn't you mention that the original does not need ANY screws, well why would they include screws and ask you to use them in the instruction.

Thank you for this instruction manual as it proves my point. All I'm trying to do is offer people on here a lower price alternative with the same quality since I have the connection to do so. I'm not on here trying to rip people off as I make plenty at my job that I don't have to try to con people on here out of a few dollars. I offered anyone local to come take a look at the lip in person before they decide to buy. I even went out of my way to show the person who bought my lip on this board the original one just so he can judge if it will be worth it. I didn't do this for anyone else who I sold it to off this forum because I wanted to provide a nice service for people on this online community.

Anyways I'm done talking about this. Judge for yourself after you read the instruction.

8. Assemble and as necessary adapt HARTGE front spoiler lip onto production part. We recommend using (installing) the grill lattices and fog headlights for adaptation, to insure accurate fit and avoid later assembly difficulties.

9. Using adhesive provided, bond HARTGE front spoiler lip at the contacting surfaces with production spoiler/valance, and allow to set for at least 6 hours. NOTE: Surfaces must be clean and wax/grease-free. Afterwards, review and sand transition areas as required, filling and smoothing as necessary with body putty (image 9).

10. Paint front apron/spoiler to match, using normal automotive painting processes for "fiberglass" parts.

11. Reassemble remaining parts in the reverse order of disassembly.

12. Rework/cut the rubber lip of the wheel housing inside paneling as shown

13. The (lower) perimeter trim of the grill lattices (if reused) must be shortened somewhat, in order to avoid binding/tension with the installation (image 8).

14. Use three screws provided to bolt the HARTGE front spoiler lip and lower engine cowling bolt together. Remark: The outside screws underneath the interior fender are no longer used (images 1 & 2).

they said to cut some rubber piece off the car. they didnt mention anything about sanding any part of the lip.

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by longtran

they said to cut some rubber piece off the car. they didnt mention anything about sanding any part of the lip.

Read number 13. I said you can either cut the piece of grill or the lip. Personally I would rather cut the lip then to cut a part of my car's stock part. That is why I suggested that. You like cutting your car, thats up to you. Also read the part about "normal painting process for fiberglass part". Meaning the lip needs to be sanded down before painting. I'm not clever enough to word my instructions as Hartge did to make it sound like its minimal work when its not. I offered my honest opinion as to what's needed so people on here knows how much they need to do.

[sunchild]

if you're gonna sell a replica kit that WILL HAVE fitting issues because it is not made from actual source but a copy of the Hartge lip, you need to sell it under $300. I was actually waiting to see how it would fit and now that I know, I will buy a Authentic Hartge lip.

People don't want to just **$@VE m0nEy***... they want to save their time and have an auto part that doesn't give any trouble.

I suggest if you're still going to market replica lips, drop the price and up the quality control.




Sunchild

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by sunchild

if you're gonna sell a replica kit that WILL HAVE fitting issues because it is not made from actual source but a copy of the Hartge lip, you need to sell it under $300. I was actually waiting to see how it would fit and now that I know, I will buy a Authentic Hartge lip.

People don't want to just **$@VE m0nEy***... they want to save their time and have an auto part that doesn't give any trouble.

I suggest if you're still going to market replica lips, drop the price and up the quality control.

Sunchild

So you want me to make it fit better than the original and charge less... ya... Did ou even read the instruction they just posted?

[longtran]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Read number 13. I said you can either cut the piece of grill or the lip. Personally I would rather cut the lip then to cut a part of my car's stock part. That is why I suggested that. You like cutting your car, thats up to you. Also read the part about "normal painting process for fiberglass part". Meaning the lip needs to be sanded down before painting. I'm not clever enough to word my instructions as Hartge did to make it sound like its minimal work when its not. I offered my honest opinion as to what's needed so people on here knows how much they need to do.

ok, where does it mention in the hartge instruction to do any sanding?? did you forget to mention you have to do that??

Originally Posted by timzerofive

So you want me to make it fit better than the original and charge less... ya... Did ou even read the instruction they just posted?

how can you make it better than the original???

[NBRider88]

I bought the repilica hartge lip, and as you know the photo's of the lip are above on timezero's car. The LIP fits perfect (as you can see) and will only have a slight modification when i attach it to my car. Yes you will have to sand and make smooth/prime the lip to make it perfect but any local body shop can do that for you for cheap....

If you think its a good buy, then get it. If not get the original...whatever makes you sleep at night but nobody is proving anything here.

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by longtran

ok, where does it mention in the hartge instruction to do any sanding?? did you forget to mention you have to do that??

haha cmon, I'm here trying to make a legitimate argument, but if you want to argue just for argument sake thats fine, I can indulge you.

No, the hartge instruction didn't use the word "sanding", but if you cut something, wouldn't you want to sand it down. In fact, what body shop would paint any fiberglass body parts without sanding? Hartge instruction actually left the preping of the part wide open, they said "...using normal automotive painting processes for "fiberglass" parts", which can mean anything. It can range from light sanding and painting, to full on cut, bondo, and molding alteration. They even put quotation around the word fiberglass, they did that for a reason.

Go buy an original lip, take it to a body shop and tell them to paint it and install it without sanding or cutting at all, let's see how far you get.

Originally Posted by longtran

how can you make it better than the original???

Exactly, how can I if I'm just taking the original and replicating it. And that's what sunchild is asking for, he sees the prepping Hartge instructs us to do, and says well I should make it not only cheaper, but even easier to install so people can save time. Technically, I can make it better, and I did actually asked the lip to be made with better quality material, which is an improvement. To improve on the fitment, I would've had to fit the original lip on my car with all cutting and sanding completed, THEN had them replicate it. After that, every lip coming out of the tooling would need to be refitted and pre-sanded and predrilled. But even then it wouldn't fit every single car. The truth is every car is slightly different, and to have 100% perfect fitment on every single car is close to impossible.

Is it possible for me to offer a lip like this? Yes. How much would I be charging for it? Probably $1000. Why? Because it's way better than the original that retails for $600. Is this something I want to offer? Not really because it's way too much trouble for me and I'm not trying to run a business here. As previously mentioned, this is just something I wanted to offer people on this forum. If no one wants or appreciates it, that's fine, no hair off my back.

[longtran]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

haha cmon, I'm here trying to make a legitimate argument, but if you want to argue just for argument sake thats fine, I can indulge you.

No, the hartge instruction didn't use the word "sanding", but if you cut something, wouldn't you want to sand it down. In fact, what body shop would paint any fiberglass body parts without sanding? Hartge instruction actually left the preping of the part wide open, they said "...using normal automotive painting processes for "fiberglass" parts", which can mean anything. It can range from light sanding and painting, to full on cut, bondo, and molding alteration. They even put quotation around the word fiberglass, they did that for a reason.

Go buy an original lip, take it to a body shop and tell them to paint it and install it without sanding or cutting at all, let's see how far you get.


Exactly, how can I if I'm just taking the original and replicating it. And that's what sunchild is asking for, he sees the prepping Hartge instructs us to do, and says well I should make it not only cheaper, but even easier to install so people can save time. Technically, I can make it better, and I did actually asked the lip to be made with better quality material, which is an improvement. To improve on the fitment, I would've had to fit the original lip on my car with all cutting and sanding completed, THEN had them replicate it. After that, every lip coming out of the tooling would need to be refitted and pre-sanded and predrilled. But even then it wouldn't fit every single car. The truth is every car is slightly different, and to have 100% perfect fitment on every single car is close to impossible.

Is it possible for me to offer a lip like this? Yes. How much would I be charging for it? Probably $1000. Why? Because it's way better than the original that retails for $600.

hahah...you know what is so funny? the guy that sold me the replica lip sold me the same sales pitch. i know that wasnt you cause your name is tim. anyways. i know what everyone's trying to make a dollar. but from my experience, i am glad i didnt buy it. seems like the lip you fitted on your car looks really good. thats all.