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Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.
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01-16-2008, 01:57 PM | #266 | |
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01-16-2008, 01:57 PM | #267 | |
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01-16-2008, 02:22 PM | #268 | ||||||||
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Shiv..
Let's go over these items one by one. Note that most of the things you are talking about are best handled by a proper and complete stand-alone ECU on a car which would be "track only" by both design and local/state/federal law. Quote:
would blow the emissions certification of the vehicle. Note however, that if I want(ed) to offer additional injector drives - I could easily use the spare outputs of the MSD80 to do so. It would be far better to use larger DI Injectors, modify the high-pressure fuel system to handle that - and reprogram the ECU thusly. Quote:
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injector pressure and duration AND the ignition timing/dwell directly. Quote:
lab-grade lambda sensor in their downpipe? Properly mapped a single ECU tune can account for a wide range of fuel qualities. (I'm speaking of course of unleaded fuels - usually 85 to 110 AKI or thereabouts) Quote:
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fuel you are going to see on the street... this is after all a STREET car. (Note that I am bound by Federal and State laws - just like you are, whether or not you recognize that fact - that state what can and cannot be done to an emissions-certified motor vehicle.) Quote:
(There is actually no flash "counter" - and the limitation you speak of isn't present on any Shark Injector to date) Quote:
unless you've found some quantum tunnel you've been keeping a secret In short, most all of the "benefits" you've listed above CAN be accomplished via changes to the software of the stock ECU - most of them however are of little-to-no consequence for anyone running a 335i on the street. The turbos themselves are a major limitation in the power output of the motor. As are the thermal pathways in the block itself and the overall sufficiency (or lack thereof) of the oil/water cooling system. Jim |
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01-16-2008, 02:23 PM | #269 |
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01-16-2008, 02:29 PM | #271 |
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Jim, you asked what a piggyback can do that a flash can't. Shiv gave you a list. Some of those are pretty darn useful. You might not think meth control, for example, is useful. But for some people that don't have access to high octane fuel it can be.
On-the-fly switchable maps can help if you want to do drag racing and want to switch to a higher boost map once you up to speed. There are plenty people running with piggybacks with ZERO issues, no faults, good gas mileage, good driveability and throttle response, and running a a full second and 10mph quicker than when they were stock. I don't see a problem with that. Maybe a flash could do some of that. Maybe it could do all and then some. But the piggyback does all that when properly installed, configured and mapped. |
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01-16-2008, 02:32 PM | #273 | |
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but... This is exactly why we invented the Shark Injector. An example would be the N54 engine - which as of right now (Progman 28) can be run by more than 25 different "versions" of software in the USA alone. Every BMW engine or engine family is just like this Jim |
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01-16-2008, 02:39 PM | #275 |
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In a 335 application, what would your flash offer? I assume 1stly boost increase of course. Fuelling in accordance with the boost increase. Timing adjustments. Maybe cam timing, VANOS adjustments? And all of this would lead to a pretty good, reliable, safe tune with a considerable increase over stock from a flash. Am I right so far?
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01-16-2008, 02:44 PM | #276 | |
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the map to increase boost at a certain RPM or vehicle speed? Also, while I'm not familiar with the law in ZA, I can tell you with certainly that methanol injection isn't legal for street cars anywhere in the USA where I hang my hat. This is the law I have to deal with. The law here is quite succinct. Once you have DE-certified a car by doing something like removing a cat or running leaded race fuel - you can't then just put the parts back on or change the fuel and pretend nothing happened. While an owner MIGHT be able to get away with that - a tuner who does will soon find himself in the sights of the USEPA and/or CARB enforcement. Jim |
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01-16-2008, 02:46 PM | #277 | |
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...and I'd rather not derail it in that direction. I also don't talk (other than in generalities) about what any of my tunes do, or how they accomplish what they accomplish. Jim |
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01-16-2008, 02:53 PM | #278 |
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I expect you will make the thread about "your flash" . Europe needs a solution as well ...
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01-16-2008, 03:02 PM | #279 | |||
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No laws on this side, but even if there were, you could substitute water for meth and be legal with a slight performance decrease but still a substantial detonation reduction over a stock car. Quote:
On my 335 I would like switchable maps as I do lots of different types of motorsport. I would like meth control, as we don't have the greatest octane here and it's not illegal. I would like a speed governor removal. You get the point, you choose the tuning method based on what it can provide to you. |
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01-16-2008, 03:09 PM | #280 |
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in the end, you are getting more than what you started with.. isn't that the whole point of these performance parts??.. I may be a novice at these stuff, but that's just my opinion.. an extra +5-+15 hp is not going to make a big difference.. seeing as how that is the difference when I compared the results from the topics I seen between Procede and Dinan.. Procede seems to be the winner.. but just by a little.. unless it provides a +50 or more hp boost, then you may be able to tell..
I'm leaning more towards Dinan now because of my lack of expertise in tuning cars.. but if someone can show me how to install everything for Procede (I live in Los Angeles).. that would be great.. I can purchase it (both the software + catback exhaust too).. I'll pay for the installation.. 2 hours it says?? |
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01-16-2008, 03:16 PM | #281 | |
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Citing carb as a reason not to use meth? I find that a bit odd. Didn't you collaborate on a flash for cars running catless for a company based in California? Hmm... Last edited by astris; 01-16-2008 at 03:39 PM.. |
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01-16-2008, 03:21 PM | #282 | |
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01-16-2008, 03:23 PM | #283 |
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May be, some dealers, when you see DINAN pricing, are like loan sharks! Anyway Jim, I do not care and it's none of my business. If you did, that would increase my confidence in that reflash as I stated somewhere above, I love your reflash for our M3. |
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01-16-2008, 03:39 PM | #284 | |||
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map work for varying octane levels as the ECU knows what AKI equivalent of fuel is in the tank in short order. Valet/etc is easily handled and you don't need to modify maps to do it. A few datapoints maybe - but not a map. Quote:
JFGI - specifically the consent decree involving Casper's Electronics. (Using them only as a quick example) Oh here - I'm a nice guy http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour.../casper-cd.pdf Now, which one of you (who lives in the USA) wants to tell me the law "don't matter" or "you'll never get caught". Take a look at the terms of that "consent decree". You guys still think "the law" is a joke? Quote:
a street car - EVER. We also tune race cars - so don't confuse the two!! Of course, that's your intent - isn't it astris. Jim PS: I'm still trying to find the place for methanol injection on a stock N54 with the stock turbos. The stock ECU also "won't handle" Nitromethane use, but then again, I really don't see the need for CH3NO2 in a 335i. |
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01-16-2008, 03:50 PM | #285 | |
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11+ pages and finally some accurate DME information. I have been trying to stay quiet in all this. I am both glad and disappointed you ended up having to post the truth. I know you hate getting involved in these things. For the rest, Jim C and I have gone through a lot of discussions both good and bad. But I will tell anyone who asks... he knows these DMEs better than 99.9999999% of the global population outside the walls of Seimens. I have learned a ton from him and respect him immensely. He deserves it. For this discussion: If people think that all a GREAT tuner does is change maps in the MSD80 or any other family of DME, then the arguement can sway one way or another. Ive seen plenty of "good" tuning, however, there are but a few GREAT tuners like Jim and one or two others. But for the rest to understand, it is simply software, with written functions that utilize and interpret the simple ROM "tables" Shiv refers to... and a GREAT tuner can modify those functions to suit the needs at hand from secondary output channels to water pump operation to switchable boost/throttle/spark control mapping. It is all possible. End result, if you know what you are doing with MSD80, ever seen a DAMOS or A2L file, and understand a LOT about the new TC processor and its interfacing, great DME tuning can FAR outperform any piggyback safer, quicker, and more efficiently. I believe the DME could easily match or exceed the highest numbers seen on any piggyback. The real question is... is that a good idea when it comes to reliability, longevity, turbo lifespan, thermal loading, downright driavability, and a slew of other considerations. It is NOT all about the power. This is still the M54 engine with a different head on it and most people wouldn't go over ~8.5psi on the old M54. Now, it's all of a sudden ok to run 14+ and give control to the end user? Wow... just wow. Regardless, Jim, I give you props for continuing on with the MSD80... I thought you were ready to retire on the back of your motorcycle? |
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01-16-2008, 04:07 PM | #286 | ||
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