[Veeemdoubleu]

Just a crazy thought, would the 330 headers fit the N54?? then run it back for rear mount twins like the ISF or CTS?

[jb's335]

Apparently someone has an STS kit for a 530...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=573452

Not sure why or when STS made a kit for the 530, but there is plenty of room even in the 335i for a rear mounted turbo setup. The issues you will eventually get into will include a seperate oiling system, turbo and piping sheilding from road debri and turbo sizing due to the large amount of pre and post turbo piping to fill before spooling the turbo. My friend (with an e39 M5) eventuall wants to run this kind of a setup with a large single Borg Warner turbo unit and just a very efficient intake and exhaust path. With today's mandrel benders and welders an efficient exhaust system really isn't that difficult to make, in fact my room mates did it on a friends Mini in our garage yesterday lol.

As far as our headers why not just buy some stock turbo "units" and cut the turbo and exhaust manifolds apart? Then just weld a single pipe to the collector...the headers are hydroformed stock and besides being small (helps for spool) they flow pretty damn well.

You can do it, just be sure to do some research, the info is out there!

[Veeemdoubleu]

main reason I say that is because no one is coming out with turbo manifolds for larger turbos for our cars. I mean I think the N54 could be like the next Supra given the right amount of boost and A/F and tune. I want to see monster HP like 800+ on these cars w/o nonsense like meth or race gas. Would be nice.

[Tiago@VRSF]

This would be a horrible idea.

[Coolieman1220]

Originally Posted by Veeemdoubleu

main reason I say that is because no one is coming out with turbo manifolds for larger turbos for our cars. I mean I think the N54 could be like the next Supra given the right amount of boost and A/F and tune. I want to see monster HP like 800+ on these cars w/o nonsense like meth or race gas. Would be nice.

this i highly doubt. just cause it has a 3.0 straight six does not mean the block or heads can handle that kind of boost. not to mention all the computer work involved, oh and that HPFP. You need new injectors and such. It's already a high compression engine to begin with.

It's a lot of work to plumb rear mounted turbo's, not to mention the lag involved.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Fueling is the limitation, not the turbo or turbo manifold.

[WilliamE92]

Originally Posted by Veeemdoubleu

main reason I say that is because no one is coming out with turbo manifolds for larger turbos for our cars. I mean I think the N54 could be like the next Supra given the right amount of boost and A/F and tune. I want to see monster HP like 800+ on these cars w/o nonsense like meth or race gas. Would be nice.

We've already hit the fuel limit at 450ish rwhp, and that's with all the cheats.

Only way we'll see numbers higher than 500 is when someone designs a functioning secondary fuel system/somehow upgrades the current one.

[Javier]

Originally Posted by Veeemdoubleu

main reason I say that is because no one is coming out with turbo manifolds for larger turbos for our cars. I mean I think the N54 could be like the next Supra given the right amount of boost and A/F and tune. I want to see monster HP like 800+ on these cars w/o nonsense like meth or race gas. Would be nice.

didn't the Supra have a cast iron block or something, which is why it could take so much abuse?

we have a crappy aluminum block with forged steel sleeves

(correct me if i'm wrong)

[cstmx_ryder]

what's the point of doing that when you can just up your TTs? Or just wait for HPF......If money is no issue.

I mean, okay, maybe we won't be able to get 500+hp using the factory turbo mounting position. It costs a lot because now the parts needed to be paid for by the owner at their expense.

[Slidewayz]

Rear mounted turbos are a crap engineering design.

You have head loss from friction in the additional piping plus you lose a buttload of enthalpy from the gas cooling down whilst traveling down that heat exchanger (the piping).

By the time you're done, you'll have spent as much or more $$$ trying to convert a 330i to a turbo than you would by selling your car and buying a clean used 335i AND the go-fast bolt-ons and tune for it.

You're always better off modding a car that came with a turbo than you are modding a car that shipped NA if you've got the choice between the two and limited funds.

[Shellacked135i]

Originally Posted by WilliamE92

We've already hit the fuel limit at 450ish rwhp, and that's with all the cheats.

Only way we'll see numbers higher than 500 is when someone designs a functioning secondary fuel system/somehow upgrades the current one.

+1

[jb's335]

Originally Posted by Javier

didn't the Supra have a cast iron block or something, which is why it could take so much abuse?

we have a crappy aluminum block with forged steel sleeves

(correct me if i'm wrong)

It might not have a full iron block, however there are lots of cars with the same type of block as ours making stupid amounts of power (aluminum block with steel sleeves). All Honda blocks are open deck, shoot even the new Evo motor, the 4b11, is OPEN DECK and people have made over 1000 hp on both motors...and thats a 4cylinder

Our block might not be the best, but with the other advancements made in the way our cars control knock I believe we can still make a shit-load of power from this motor and still stay in the safe, non-motor killing zone. But we won't know until someone actually grows the balls to test this motor out...

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

Rear mounted turbos are a crap engineering design.

You have head loss from friction in the additional piping plus you lose a buttload of enthalpy from the gas cooling down whilst traveling down that heat exchanger (the piping).

By the time you're done, you'll have spent as much or more $$$ trying to convert a 330i to a turbo than you would by selling your car and buying a clean used 335i AND the go-fast bolt-ons and tune for it.

You're always better off modding a car that came with a turbo than you are modding a car that shipped NA if you've got the choice between the two and limited funds.

The argument isn't single turboing a 330, but a 335i. There is a very difficult problem with fitting larger turbos on the 335i due to packaging, so whats the problem with going elsewhere to fit a larger turbocharger? And your "enthalpy" comment is going against conventional turbo-charging theory...usually you WANT to cool the charged air coming from the turbo before the throttle.

I cannot say the lag will not be increased, because it will, but with the amount of efficient rear mounted setups running around (even on VR's in Volkswagens, so its not all V8 guys!) its ridiculous to say it wouldn't work without someone actually trying.

Fueling will be an issue with our cars, but its not difficult to engineer a new intake manifold with secondary injectors with today's machines (in fact its already been done for the 335i). Tuning isn't an issue, CP-e already has a seperate fueling computer that will work with our cars. Once bigger direct injectors come to market then things are going to get very interesting!

I will go ahead and say I am against going rear mount for this car. I think there is enough room to fit a larger turbo in the engine bay, but I just hate it when people dismiss an idea when they have done little to no research on the facts.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by jb's335

The argument isn't single turboing a 330, but a 335i. There is a very difficult problem with fitting larger turbos on the 335i due to packaging, so whats the problem with going elsewhere to fit a larger turbocharger? And your "enthalpy" comment is going against conventional turbo-charging theory...usually you WANT to cool the charged air coming from the turbo before the throttle.

No one is saying it won't work, just that it's a crap design.

No, actually you want the HOTTEST air possible on the hot side of the turbo. The hotter the air is, the more energy each molecule possesses. Therefore, the greater kinetic energy spins the wheel more efficiently. You want the most dense air possible air going into the engine, which is why we have intercoolers.

The temperature delta between ambient and the hot side is much greater than the delta between ambient and the cold side. You'll lose more 'turbo spinning energy' than you will pick up 'air density'.

Also, the head loss would be significant with all that plumbing.

There are reasons why no manufacturers put the turbos in the rear.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

No one is saying it won't work, just that it's a crap design.

No, actually you want the HOTTEST air possible on the hot side of the turbo. The hotter the air is, the more energy each molecule possesses. Therefore, the greater kinetic energy spins the wheel more efficiently. You want the most dense air possible air going into the engine, which is why we have intercoolers.

The temperature delta between ambient and the hot side is much greater than the delta between ambient and the cold side. You'll lose more 'turbo spinning energy' than you will pick up 'air density'.

Also, the head loss would be significant with all that plumbing.

There are reasons why no manufacturers put the turbos in the rear.

+1
You want hot air.

He's speaking of efficiency of spooling the turbos and not feeding the engine.
If the engine expelled cold air, it would be denser and would be the equivalent of pushing less 'volume'. Less volume traveling through the turbine blades at a specific rate = slower turbine speed. What you do want however is excellent heat exchange. In other words, on the opposite side, you'd want very cold exhaust. The purpose for that is turbo efficiency. I'm no thermo dynamics engineer however I know that this type of energy likes to transfer from high density to low density. You get extra 'push' just by having a lower temp on the other side of the turbo and the exhaust gasses try to escape to that side of lower pressure.

[mycoupe]

You need to keep the heat in the exhaust piping going to the turbo, yes? So, ceramic coat the piping with a super high temp coating and there you go. You should be able to keep gobbs of heat in that way.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by mycoupe

You need to keep the heat in the exhaust piping going to the turbo, yes? So, ceramic coat the piping with a super high temp coating and there you go. You should be able to keep gobbs of heat in that way.

Yeah, but it is *so* inelegant! Also, you'll still lose gobs of heat.

This does not solve the problem of head loss and the lag induced by the ginormous piping run.

Do a top mount if you can't fit it next to the exhaust manifold.

[Bimmer This]

rear mounted turbo systems are a .