[m@rk]

Originally Posted by Glassman

Magic: These are the brands, in order of preference if it was my car (and I qualify this with +20 years in the business fitting the buggers!).

1. OEM
2. Saint Gobain [Sekurit]
3. Pilkington
4. Guardian

I find that list contradictory on the grounds that the factory fit glass (thus the OEM glass) is Pilkington. Looking in the corner there is a Pilkington mark AND a BMW mark

[Glassman]

Originally Posted by m@rk

I find that list contradictory on the grounds that the factory fit glass (thus the OEM glass) is Pilkington. Looking in the corner there is a Pilkington mark AND a BMW mark

I accept this, but you have to understand that glass is manufactured in different plants all over the world. Yes, Pilkington are OE for BMW on some models as are Saint Gobain Sekurit but this doesn't always mean the aftermarket counterparts are the same.

Pilkington have plants in Aken, Germany; Changchun, China; Eisenerz, Austria; Laitila, Finland; Kings Norton, England; Sao Paolo, Brazil... there's a list of around 20 locations, worldwide. What this means is that certain plants will deal with certain production runs of manufacture. This might mean that a particular BMW model OEM glass unit is manufactured in one plant, others in another but the aftermarket one by the same manufacturer will be off a different production line elsewhere in the world. They state that the glass 'responds' to the same aesthetic and technical criteria as the original (but then, so does a knock off Louis Vitton bag from Turkey). I can positively say that there are usually varying levels of differences in quality if you look close enough.

In some cases, especially on selected Land Rover glasses, the car manufacturer logo is removed (by lazer) and overlaid with the glass manufacturer's logo. In this example it is the same glass with just that one difference: the presence or absence of a manufacturer motif.

Have a read of this:

http://www.glasstecpaul.com/windscre...y-really-mean/

[tmarshall57]

No one has mentioned the fogging or condensation sensor. You won't know if this has been damaged unless you read the codes afterwards with INPA or such like and this sensor is not designed to be re-used as it is fragile and glued to the screen.

It is located within the housing behind the rear view mirror.

My windscreen was replaced by Autoglass at their Salford depot. They used Pilkington screen which is OEM other than it doesn't have the BMW logo which is applied at the factory.

I noticed a fogging or condensation sensor fault about 12 months after the screen replacement (first time I had used INPA). I checked behind the mirror housing and noted that Autoglass had tried to reuse the fogging sensor. I called them and they asked me to being the car in and replaced the sensor with a new one - took them 10 minutes. They had a box full in their equipment store. These sensors cost around £80 to you and me!

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...38&hg=64&fg=45

[Glassman]

Originally Posted by tmarshall57

it doesn't have the BMW logo which is applied at the factory.

Is this what someone at Autoslags told you?

[tmarshall57]

Originally Posted by Glassman

Is this what someone at Autoslags told you?

No - I read it in a few places before I read all of your well informed post above.

[magic77]

Originally Posted by Glassman

This is it: most problems are caused, or not spotted, by human failure. The high bean assist sensor is in the mirror assembly, non?




Correct



Don't bet more than a few quid on it. They may 'pass' a drop test, but how, buy just scraping over the lowest pass level? It's a requirement, but you have to remember, they'll test one then produce a sh*t load before testing another. Whichever way it happens, passing a test is one thing, being of an acceptable standard is another, and although I do give customers the choice, some aftermarket glass should never be within five metres of certain cars. They truly are shite.



This is more the point. Glass is replaceable. And I suspect this will not be the last/only windscreen change your car goes through.

It's not cool to hover around the tech, and if your perception of people is quite good, you should be able to tell - after the initial salutations - if he's a monkey or not. The condition of his van and the way he stores his tools is usually a good indicator of this too.

What he should be doing (in pretty much this order) is:

1. Checking that he has the right glass and that it hasn't been damaged in transit;

2. Inspection of your car (preferably with you) and making sure there is no damage, and that the wipers/rain sensor/HUD/etc are functioning correctly;

3. If he does use seat covers or masking tape over the pained areas around the windscreen, this is not necessarily a bad thing. It could mean he's conscientious and is about to do an amazing job on your car, or, it may mean that he's a bit nervous about damaging your car... or maybe even because he's still not very experienced;

4. A-pillar trims off is preferable, but not essential. Technically speaking, where possible, they must be taken off to prevent damage (to them) and, to aid inspection (of the bonding material between the two surfaces) when the new screen is in place;

5. Cutting back the old adhesive should be done with a chisel - NOT a retractable blade, similar to a Stanley knife.

6. The old screen should be cut out with wire, especially at the bottom. If he goes anywhere near your car with an extended Stanley knife-looking thing, set the dogs on him.

7. Wipers, and ALL the plastic cowling/filters whould be removed from the car. If he props it up, or doesn't take ALL of it off, stop him, phone Admiral and tell them that you have caught their nominated supplier's tech trying to f*ck your car. It's a practice known as 'diving' or 'scuttling' and is a massive no-no and I don't care what anyone says.

8. The new screen MUST be de-contaminated. That is, all traces of silicon must be removed from the contact surface of the glass. Not checked, must be removed (because all screens have varying levels of silicon contamination on the surface). Silicon traces present on glass mean that the bond (between the two surfaces) will fail or not last. He HAS to do it, no question.

9. Extra points for competence if he dry fits the screen first to check and mark for tolerances.

This is a basic guide and not the windscreen fitter's bible, but after +20 years in the trade, I'm still amazed at how many employed fitters will never be good enough to deserve the title of 'technician'. So many are still scratching the painted bits the customers don't see (and then painting over them with black adhesion promoter to hide them). When a new screen is fitted, you see the end product, and this is the crux of the matter: ANYONE can put a screen where it should be on a car, and make it look clean and 'fitted'. It;s what has happened underneath that screen, or before it went in that makes all the difference.

Good luck and I'm only a phonecall away if you have any concerns. Happy to help.

Thank you for that I will certainly keep an eye on the process, last time I had a screen done was on a Leon back in 2004 and they did all the above lets see what tomorrow brings.

Have a demo IP camera for a trial might use it to keep an eye from the office so I'm not hovering over him

Right now I just hope rain keeps off as unless he has a canopy it aint happening

Thanks for the heads up on the fog sensor will need to check on this before he even starts just in case

[magic77]

Seems the only safe way to get OEM screen without hassle is to have a rare model. Neighbour has a 5 GT and national straight away went to OEM as only OEM available as the car is so rare. Its a 2 man fit as well due to the size

[magic77]

Welll results are in

Got Saint Gobain glass must be due to being comfort windscreen - winwin

Overall finish is spot on no damage or any issues, he didnt remove interior trim but at least no bleeding of glue happened as I have seen before.

Disappointed but seems National only reuse the fogging sensor so just hope it continues to work. Question is how to test it.

Apart from that now have a nice windscreeen so lets hope stone chips stay away. Be interesting how the UV block affects my satnav and high beam assist.

[Hopeful]

Originally Posted by magic77

Welll results are in

Got Saint Gobain glass must be due to being comfort windscreen - winwin

Overall finish is spot on no damage or any issues, he didnt remove interior trim but at least no bleeding of glue happened as I have seen before.

Disappointed but seems National only reuse the fogging sensor so just hope it continues to work. Question is how to test it.

Apart from that now have a nice windscreeen so lets hope stone chips stay away. Be interesting how the UV block affects my satnav and high beam assist.

I got a big stonechip two days after having a new screen fitted by AutoGlass

My insurance company (LV) had no problem with my request for OEM glass - I read somewhere that they're more amenable to this for cars less than 3 years old.

I also requested a new fogging sensor rather than re-use and Autoglass told me that it was their standard practice anyway. No problems with their workmanship but they were overseen by the guys in the BMW bodyshop.

[Glassman]

Originally Posted by magic77

Welll results are in

Got Saint Gobain glass must be due to being comfort windscreen - winwin

Overall finish is spot on no damage or any issues, he didnt remove interior trim but at least no bleeding of glue happened as I have seen before.

Disappointed but seems National only reuse the fogging sensor so just hope it continues to work. Question is how to test it.

Apart from that now have a nice windscreeen so lets hope stone chips stay away. Be interesting how the UV block affects my satnav and high beam assist.

The problem re condensation/de-fog sensor is that the insurance companies don't wear it (I fail to see how they're in any position to dictate what parts are essential, or not) and it's all down to how much the prices have been squeezed by the fiercely competitive market. The aftermarket windscreens do not come with any more hardware than necessary (just the brackets and bosses for mirror/sensor/camera etc). OEM glass usually comes with a new sensor and even if/when they don't, there's usually an alert on the windscreen part number which flags a 'use in conjunction with' message.

To be fair, carefully removing the sensor (and knowing how it should be correctly refitted) shouldn't raise any issues, and the new ones merely save cleaning/preparation time more than anything and it's always good to have a spare in stock in case of damage.

Most insurance companies will not pay for essential trims/clips/rain sensor regeneration material and for this reason, many fitting companies will try and get away with what they can. This can also come down to the fitter not being bothered too.

[magic77]

So true any ideas how I can easily work out if its still operating correctly or not

[tmarshall57]

Originally Posted by magic77

So true any ideas how I can easily work out if its still operating correctly or not

The only way is to read the codes using INPA or DIS.

[magic77]

i wonder would bmwhat pick them up