[NFS]

Originally Posted by briers

I'm going to have to forget the Falkens

They get good reviews but i would need to upsize on my 19inch 230's which will make my BMW warranty invalid for the suspension and parts; i checked.


Therefore what about Eagle F1 asymmetric..


Without spending nearly a grand on 4 tyres these seem the only tyre that seem to be decent but will cost around the £600 mark for 4.

Go to these guys:

http://www.chapeltyres.co.uk/home.html

They will sort you out some decent tyres for a fantastic price. They can source anything.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by briers

Oh and the warranty, as i said a few posts earlier, BMW warranty have absolutely no issues switching to non-runflats but they clarified in writing that if i change the width or height of the tyre, e.g. up-sizing 225/35 to 235/35 and 255/30 to 265/30 will invalidate my warranty for any suspension/suspension related parts.

Can you scan the document and post it up,I'd be interested in reading it, thanks

[MERLIN335i]

"BMW warranty have absolutely no issues switching to non-runflats"

I have an e-mail from BMW UK stating the complete opposite !!! "fitting of Non -Run Flat tyres is NOT APPROVED" in BOLD & Underlined !!

Several people have mentioned the existance of Documents, Puma's, TIS's from BMW saying OK to fit Non-Run flats. But unless I've missed them, they have never been posted up for everyone to see.

Please post your document, also anyone else who has an official BMW document stating either Yes or No to Non-RF, would be good to put this to bed once and for all.

If documents contradict each other, at least this evidence could be put to BMW for a definitive answer (pigs might fly!).

THANKS.

[Oli]

As long as you switch with the same size tyre, there can be no warranty implications, switching to standard tyres, in fact it will be easier on the car has the harshness has gone! The only difference between and RFT and standard tyre is the reinforced sidewall. However you switch up a size, and if you get a suspension related problem, the first thing they will say is put the vehicle back to the factory standard size tyres, before any claim can be processed, and I have seen this done;

A similar problem we had with a VW van - The turbo blew on a customers VW van that was re-mapped, VW did some diagnostic tesing, and found some of the coding was different, they insisted that a new ECU was fitted, to get the correct coding. We removed the ECU sent it off to the remapper, he reset it back to factory, the dealership then sent off the correct coding to VW, and they authorised the new turbo to be fitted.

Any manufacturer will look for a way to get out of a claim, unless you have a good dealer on side who doesn't tell them about mods, so dont give them an excuse to chuck your claim out.

When I had my RS4 the most knowledgable dealer in the ocuntry was Camberly Audi, and they were compleetely mod friendly, and never had any problems with warranty claims - RS4 owners from all over the country would travel their to have their service work and warranty claim done becaus eof thes knowledge.

As has been stated above, they don't have to prove that the mod has caused the fault, but they can insist that the vehicle goes back to factory standard if they want to be really awkward.

HTH

[briers]

Here is the communication between me and bmw warranty yesterday; some of you were asking for




It looks to me like they would want to wriggle out of any suspension related claim. To be honest they would probably argue it's wear and tear on most suspension parts anyway, but i don't want to give them ammunition. So on that basis i would have to get the right size tyres. I'd rather pay more than have hassle. I hate hassle.

[Oli]

Nice one, thats what I said then

LOCK THREAD PLEASE

[briers]

Yes you did sir, days ago infact

cheers

[Oli]

Well done for getting the info and posting the email up - I think all the non believers should publically apologise, and compensate us........hahahaha

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by Oli

Well done for getting the info and posting the email up - I think all the non believers should publically apologise, and compensate us........hahahaha

Hi All,

The following received in e-mail from BMW UK 23rd February 2010.

"All of our vehicles that use Run-flat technology have their suspension and braking components set up to accommodate Run-flat tyres. Should you decide to change to non Run-flats, it may alter the driving and handling characteristics of your vehicle. It is for this reason that this modification is NOT RECOMMENDED by BMW as a manufacturer".

Lewis Jeffreys.
BMW UK Customer Information Advisor.

Lewis Jeffreys, stated the above was given to him by Germany.

My point is that my insurance company (More Than) & several others, say they will allow anything as long as it is approved by BMW, which from the above it is clearly NOT.

From a warranty point of view the following was received from my Dealer Principle.

"We (BMW) are aware of customers fitting non run flats to their vehicles but until this is approved whether through legal or other channels, then my advice would be to stick to the appropriate recommended equipment. If you choose to fit non run flats, it could effect future warranty claims".

Kind Regards
David Abel
Dealer Principal
Wayside BMW / MINI
Milton Keynes

No doubt from both an insurance and warranty point of view, an owner could challenge a negative decision in either case in the law courts, but does anyone really want that time delay and hassle ????

Better to try an extract a definitive answer from BMW, please note the above comment "until this is approved whether through legal or other channels" read what you will into that !

Any other official document/comments available that can be posted ?????

THANKS.

[xenon]

I'd love to ask Lewis Jeffreys, who is clearly a technical wizard, exactly how the "braking components are set up to accomodate run-flat tyres". F*cking idiots.

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by xenon

I'd love to ask Lewis Jeffreys, who is clearly a technical wizard, exactly how the "braking components are set up to accomodate run-flat tyres". F*cking idiots.

I know, I know, but when an insurance company asks BMW are non run-flats approved, the answer will be NO, then any Insurance Claim will be thrown out.

We all know its Bullsh*t, but it is what they will use as an excuse to not pay out.

[Oli]

What a load of bollocks again! Of course non-RFTs are approved - Explain to me how on the 5 series (old) you could order it with the 19" wheel upgrade, which has standard tyres, but on the same suspension. People should stop getting sucked in by the hype from BMW. And also on the 320ED same set up as a 320D SE, but has standard tyres........ What difference does it make to an insurance company - a blowout is a blowout, neither tyre will make any difference in this situation - I would suggest changing insurance companies

My new 335 was delivered yesterday, I purchased the Performance alloys from BMW, fitted standard tyres, and got BMW to fit the wheels - Not once was it mentioned about invalidating warranties!

This thread should be LOCKED! And Ill stick with the recent email published by Briers, and all my dealing with BMW over the years, for my sound information.

This will be my last post on this subject

[xenon]

Oli is of course correct. Both the e90 and e60 have models in the range that can be specified, from new, with RFTs or conventional tyres. RFTs do not reduce the likelihood of a blowout, they simply mean you can drive for a limited time with a puncture, which is not the same thing.

Ultimately it's BMW (UK) and consequently the dealers not knowing fcuk all about what they're actually selling or the technology that goes behind it.

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by Oli

What a load of bollocks again! Of course non-RFTs are approved - Explain to me how on the 5 series (old) you could order it with the 19" wheel upgrade, which has standard tyres, but on the same suspension. People should stop getting sucked in by the hype from BMW. And also on the 320ED same set up as a 320D SE, but has standard tyres........ What difference does it make to an insurance company - a blowout is a blowout, neither tyre will make any difference in this situation - I would suggest changing insurance companies

My new 335 was delivered yesterday, I purchased the Performance alloys from BMW, fitted standard tyres, and got BMW to fit the wheels - Not once was it mentioned about invalidating warranties!

This thread should be LOCKED! And Ill stick with the recent email published by Briers, and all my dealing with BMW over the years, for my sound information.

This will be my last post on this subject

Hey, don't shoot the messenger, just showing what I have received. Didn't say I believed or agreed with it. But the info I received contradicts "Briers" post, just thought I should highlight the mixed messages coming out of BMW.

If other people's insurance companies get the same answer I did from BMW, then there is the excuse to throw the claim out.

Why should one e-mail from BMW be more believable than another ????? Surely all BMW employees should be singing from the same hymn sheet !

[doughboy]

Theres a difference between being 'approved' or 'recommended' or 'mandatory'

If RFTs were 'mandatory' the manual would have to state this, and it doesn't.


The user manual is the reference document, as no court would expect people to phone the manufacturer if guidance was already in the manual.

Insurers who says 'parts have to be approved' are talking shite and I think it is the individual operator using the incorrect language. BMW won't 'approve' things that they don't have a commercial interest in.

A Partco oil filter may comply with BMW specification and be acceptable to keep your warranty, but they won't 'approve' it will they? They say 'we only reccomend using genuine BMW parts'

If a part / item complies with the relevant specification then its good to go. end of.

[BIGTIME]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Theres a difference between being 'approved' or 'recommended' or 'mandatory'

If RFTs were 'mandatory' the manual would have to state this, and it doesn't.


The user manual is the reference document, as no court would expect people to phone the manufacturer if guidance was already in the manual.

Insurers who says 'parts have to be approved' are talking shite and I think it is the individual operator using the incorrect language. BMW won't 'approve' things that they don't have a commercial interest in.

A Partco oil filter may comply with BMW specification and be acceptable to keep your warranty, but they won't 'approve' it will they? They say 'we only reccomend using genuine BMW parts'

If a part / item complies with the relevant specification then its good to go. end of.

What does it state in the manual?

[doughboy]

Can't remember exactly, something along the line of 'for best performance only use star rated tyres' or something along those lines.

[EddieL]

There seems to be two arguments running here. I think most everyone agrees non RFT's are technically fine/better than RFTs, but that all insurance/warranty companies are cocks and will try anything not to pay.

If I was a BMW manager and was asked to put something in writing, I would say/write 'Only use BMW approved parts' very easy quiet life and not called up in court to explain why I gave out conflicting information to someone who wrapped their car into a central reservation.

[rup]

BMW are saying RFT are recommended but NOT mandatory. Thus if you fit non-RFT it will NOT invalidate your warranty or give insurance companies a legitimate reason to reject claims. They may try, but they can also try on a dozen other things.
Worst case it'll be a £50 lawyers letter and they'll back off.

[NFS]

Seems to me that some people are struggling with the language.

If an insurer says that a tyre must be APPROVED by BMW you have a problem, because only starred run flat tyres are APPROVED by BMW.

BMW RECOMMEND starred run flats, but do not state that this is a MANDATORY requirement of the warranty.

So if you swap to non RFT in the correct size it's not a problem for the warranty

[Em135eye]

I rang my insurer (BMW Insurance) then got the tyre fitter (non BMW) to check - no problems at all.

They need to be "high load" and the correct speed rating and that's about it.

I'm sick of BMWs string of BS about non RFT tyres - they are a major weakness and once sorted, complete the car.

[NFS]

Bloody hell .. it's Matt !

How are you doing?