[Tuned335i]

Seriously, doesn't anyone even think about searching before they post anymore?? This rediculous topic has been discussed at least two dozen times already, probably more. Do we really need to bring this up again?

[SoCali E36]

Originally Posted by BMdblU

+1000

1 min idle till the revs drop and take off.

+1 wen my injectors quiet down I take off.

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I have been very careful about warming up my turbos. I often do let my engine idle 15 minutes before I take off. These turbos have been surprisingly quiet, even after all that they have been through.

where did you get the idea that you need to "warm up" your turbos ?

Harry

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

where did you get the idea that you need to "warm up" your turbos ?

Harry

Just experimentation...I'm on my 3rd 335i so far.
Perhaps I should clarify. If you drive pretty gingerly for the first few miles, then you should be okay. Remember with these lag fix tunes, you can easily fly past the factory max 6-9psi even in light throttle applications. But if you are going to jump on it, make sure the car is warmed up. Oil temp past 180F at least (which takes a long time idling to even get the temps up there). Yes, its best to warm up quickly, but worse to be driving cold at light throttle making 9psi+ boost, loading your bearings with super high torque, and spinning that turbo much faster than it would be stock. FYI..idling at for one minute hardly warms up any bearing surfaces at all anyways. Also, at higher boost levels (even on stock tune), it is typical to hear the turbos at higher rpms/loads, especially as they wind down/up after the shifts. If you hear the siren whine at low throttle transitions/loads, especially with the stock air filter/air box, that is when the turbos have a bit more wear, clearance problems. As I have said many times, with a open element air filter, it masks these kinds of turbo whine abnormalities at low throttle/loads. (The kind of whine that an average person would notice in mellow/everyday driving situations).

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Just experimentation...I'm on my 3rd 335i so far.
Perhaps I should clarify. If you drive pretty gingerly for the first few miles, then you should be okay. Remember with these lag fix tunes, you can easily fly past the factory max 6-9psi even in light throttle applications. But if you are going to jump on it, make sure the car is warmed up. Oil temp past 180F at least (which takes a long time idling to even get the temps up there). Yes, its best to warm up quickly, but worse to be driving cold at light throttle making 9psi+ boost, loading your bearings with super high torque, and spinning that turbo much faster than it would be stock. FYI..idling at for one minute hardly warms up any bearing surfaces at all anyways. Also, at higher boost levels (even on stock tune), it is typical to hear the turbos at higher rpms/loads, especially as they wind down/up after the shifts. If you hear the siren whine at low throttle transitions/loads, especially with the stock air filter/air box, that is when the turbos have a bit more wear, clearance problems. As I have said many times, with a open element air filter, it masks these kinds of turbo whine abnormalities at low throttle/loads. (The kind of whine that an average person would notice in mellow/everyday driving situations).

Glad you are on your 3rd 335. I was just curious about why the turbo needs to be warmed up. Maybe you ment the engine needs to be brought up to operating temp before hard boosting ?

Harry

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

As I have said many times, with a open element air filter, it masks these kinds of turbo whine abnormalities at low throttle/loads. (The kind of whine that an average person would notice in mellow/everyday driving situations).

Just to let everyone know, I tried it with both stock and open filters and found that one can hear the turbo whine a little bit more with open intakes.

Hotrod's argument is that there is more engine and induction noise with open filters, which drowns out the turbo whine.....which is true once you step on it.

But at light throttle and load, between 1500-2500 rpms, when the turbos start spooling, there is minimal induction noise coming from an open filter, and I find the whine to be slightly more audible as the open element follows a direct path to the turbos with no airbox to baffle it.

It's really noticeable when you open the passenger window and get the sound of the turbos to reflect off a curb or concrete wall (with either type of air filter) because as you know, the sound originates from the turbos and they are located on the passenger side of the engine.

This seems to be reinforced by many who have purchased aftermarket downpipes and report hearing more turbo whine once installed.

So I find that if you blip the throttle just enough to start spooling the turbos and then back off - which is when this type of siren sound starts to develop, there is no induction noise to really negate hearing it - even with an open element filter.

Like this:

[I335]

I have the stock intake on my car and I can't hear the turbos at all - no matter what I do - WOT, windows down, next to a wall, etc... Maybe they forgot to install them on my car! :-)

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by I335

I have the stock intake on my car and I can't hear the turbos at all - no matter what I do - WOT, windows down, next to a wall, etc... Maybe they forgot to install them on my car! :-)

That's good!

But this thread is about abnormal low rpm turbo whine which may be an indicator of excessive bearing/shaft play.

It's hard to say what is a normal amount of turbo whine.....but if you can hear it and it becomes more prevalent with time, then something in the turbo is pulsating and creating a harmonic frequency.

I think it stems from bearing wear which then allows the impeller shaft to wobble the turbines.

Sometimes it's also due to a damaged turbine blade, but that is usually due to ingestion of a foreign substance.

Needless to say, more and more people seem to be reporting this sound and there seem to be mixed opinions on whether it's something to worry about or not.

If it gets louder with time, then I think it's pretty certain you have a problem that will need new turbos.

I also have a theory that the shaft play creates some internal friction in the turbos when they spool up and this makes it more difficult for them to hit boost targets accurately. This results in erratic performance with a tune.

A couple of members here reported problems with their tunes being inconsistent, and then later on once their turbos were diagnosed and replaced, they reported that the tunes worked better than ever.

[hotrod182]

Thats the point with that video. Stock air box, quiet ambient sound levels, so the turbo whine becomes intrusive in everyday driving,(when engine noise levels are low). With open elements, you hear more induction (suction) noises, which sometimes masks the whining sounds.

And yes, the long warm up was primarily for when I know that I am going to be jumping on the throttle shortly after. Otherwise, just drive conservatively till the oil temp goes up.

[Drakos]

Originally Posted by roadkillrob

10-15 minutes idling before you drive off is doing more damage than anything - 1 minute max, then drive it!

This also applies in the dead of winter also? I was used to letting my old car warm up for like 15mins in the past.

[ridin135]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Just to let everyone know, I tried it with both stock and open filters and found that one can hear the turbo whine a little bit more with open intakes.

Hotrod's argument is that there is more engine and induction noise with open filters, which drowns out the turbo whine.....which is true once you step on it.

But at light throttle and load, between 1500-2500 rpms, when the turbos start spooling, there is minimal induction noise coming from an open filter, and I find the whine to be slightly more audible as the open element follows a direct path to the turbos with no airbox to baffle it.

It's really noticeable when you open the passenger window and get the sound of the turbos to reflect off a curb or concrete wall (with either type of air filter) because as you know, the sound originates from the turbos and they are located on the passenger side of the engine.

This seems to be reinforced by many who have purchased aftermarket downpipes and report hearing more turbo whine once installed.

So I find that if you blip the throttle just enough to start spooling the turbos and then back off - which is when this type of siren sound starts to develop, there is no induction noise to really negate hearing it - even with an open element filter.

Like this:

My 135 has been making that sound now for the past couple months. I took to the dealer once and of course that was the only time the car didn't make the noise. I have just disregarded it for the time being until my next service appointment. My car does feel like it is slower but that could be due to the 70 degree temperature difference.

[ZTUNER]

I think the start and drive thing in cold weather has more to do with preventing condensation in the crankcase than anything else....

Harry

[fast_lap28]

this is exactly the same noise I have developed over the last few weeks. as I speak the car is at the dealer getting inspected. I was able to reproduce the same low RPM turbo whine while reving around 1500 - 3500 RPM while parked. if you stood in front of the car with the hood opened, we couldn't pick up the frequency....but at the driver side or passanger side you can pick it up.

I had wastegates replaced around 38K now at 43K so I expect a good tech to pick up on the whine. I should hear back on Mon. so I will keep posting results as I find out more. I never had this whine and until recently have I picked up the annoying whine at cold start.

keeping fingers crossed!!!

[jgalaxy]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Just to let everyone know, I tried it with both stock and open filters and found that one can hear the turbo whine a little bit more with open intakes.

Hotrod's argument is that there is more engine and induction noise with open filters, which drowns out the turbo whine.....which is true once you step on it.

But at light throttle and load, between 1500-2500 rpms, when the turbos start spooling, there is minimal induction noise coming from an open filter, and I find the whine to be slightly more audible as the open element follows a direct path to the turbos with no airbox to baffle it.

It's really noticeable when you open the passenger window and get the sound of the turbos to reflect off a curb or concrete wall (with either type of air filter) because as you know, the sound originates from the turbos and they are located on the passenger side of the engine.

This seems to be reinforced by many who have purchased aftermarket downpipes and report hearing more turbo whine once installed.

So I find that if you blip the throttle just enough to start spooling the turbos and then back off - which is when this type of siren sound starts to develop, there is no induction noise to really negate hearing it - even with an open element filter.

Like this:

That is not a normal healthy N54 turbo whine. Your N54 has issues. Bring it in.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by jgalaxy

That is not a normal healthy N54 turbo whine. Your N54 has issues. Bring it in.

Already did ......dealer replaced both turbos

BTW that video is not mine. Just an example. Mine weren't that loud.

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Already did ......dealer replaced both turbos

BTW that video is not mine. Just an example. Mine weren't that loud.

so what did the dealer say was cause for replacing turbos? cause mine is in the shop as well for the same issue

[Kbueno]

A few notes to help people that may have this issue:
-There is a difference between normal spooling noise and the whining. My best description of it is a "whishing" sound for spooling and of course..."siren" sound for the turbo whine.
-The turbo whine is most detectable during cold starts and can be heard even during idling. It may lessen when warmed up and only be noticeable during low RPM load.
-Causes can range from running too much boost, an unmonitored boost leak, detonation, to just bad luck. Even completely stock cars have had this happen. Can't confirm this, but the turbos were apparently revised? I know the wastegate/actuators were updated in mid 2008, but I'm not sure if any changes were made to the housing, etc.

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

Can't confirm this, but the turbos were apparently revised? I know the wastegate/actuators were updated in mid 2008, but I'm not sure if any changes were made to the housing, etc.

It have actually been 4 revisions on the turbos since the beginning.
So hopefully something will be better on the latest revision, compared with the first one...

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by Big Tom

It have actually been 4 revisions on the turbos since the beginning.
So hopefully something will be better on the latest revision, compared with the first one...

I actually eye-balled the revised turbos in 2008 and compared them, other than the actuators....looked the same to me.

[midlife]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

A few notes to help people that may have this issue:
-There is a difference between normal spooling noise and the whining. My best description of it is a "whishing" sound for spooling and of course..."siren" sound for the turbo whine.
-The turbo whine is most detectable during cold starts and can be heard even during idling. It may lessen when warmed up and only be noticeable during low RPM load.
-Causes can range from running too much boost, an unmonitored boost leak, detonation, to just bad luck. Even completely stock cars have had this happen. Can't confirm this, but the turbos were apparently revised? I know the wastegate/actuators were updated in mid 2008, but I'm not sure if any changes were made to the housing, etc.

there is some recent evidence that alot of the whislte (not siren) noises people hear are coming from the DV valves = not the turbos.
my turbos whistle a bit -even when they are not under boost.... a turbo builder told me it probably was NOT my turbos.

there was a report that someone started getting a similar whistle noise (like mine) right after he installed his forge DVs.

[fast_lap28]

Originally Posted by midlife

there is some recent evidence that alot of the whislte (not siren) noises people hear are coming from the DV valves = not the turbos.
my turbos whistle a bit -even when they are not under boost.... a turbo builder told me it probably was NOT my turbos.

there was a report that someone started getting a similar whistle noise (like mine) right after he installed his forge DVs.

I had my DV's installed many thousand miles ago and never did I hear the sound....not until the last month did it manifest itself

car still in the shop for this....so patiently waiting outcome

[vadim]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Just experimentation...I'm on my 3rd 335i so far.
Perhaps I should clarify. If you drive pretty gingerly for the first few miles, then you should be okay. Remember with these lag fix tunes, you can easily fly past the factory max 6-9psi even in light throttle applications. But if you are going to jump on it, make sure the car is warmed up. Oil temp past 180F at least (which takes a long time idling to even get the temps up there). Yes, its best to warm up quickly, but worse to be driving cold at light throttle making 9psi+ boost, loading your bearings with super high torque, and spinning that turbo much faster than it would be stock. FYI..idling at for one minute hardly warms up any bearing surfaces at all anyways. Also, at higher boost levels (even on stock tune), it is typical to hear the turbos at higher rpms/loads, especially as they wind down/up after the shifts. If you hear the siren whine at low throttle transitions/loads, especially with the stock air filter/air box, that is when the turbos have a bit more wear, clearance problems. As I have said many times, with a open element air filter, it masks these kinds of turbo whine abnormalities at low throttle/loads. (The kind of whine that an average person would notice in mellow/everyday driving situations).

Idling for 15 minutes is indeed a very inefficient way to warm up the engine, including the turbos.

Turbos warm up almost instantly as soon as they start spooling - the turbine wheel is in direct contact with extremely hot exhaust gasses, whereas the impeller wheel gets warm as soon as it starts compressing the intake air. One minute is more than enough for the oil to start circulating through the turbo's bearings (thus lubricating them) - no need to make the oil hot here; quite the opposite - oil circulation is used to cool the turbos down. So it is completely pointless to wait any longer than that. It is better just to drive off without racing the engine. This way the turbos will be completely ready within 2-3 minutes. Also, this way the engine oil will reach its operational temperature much sooner and you won't have wasted so much gas.