[twinship]

Lottsa posts about the assumed dangers of taking our cars to the dealer without removing the tune.

OK, got that. There is some risk of the dealer detecting the tune and voiding the warranty. 'Nuf said.

But has anyone actually had their GIAC tune discovered by a dealer? Anyone?

In all the threads I've read, I don't believe I've ever seen a report of anyone having their GIAC detected. Did I miss something...?

[techlogik]

Not yet. Someone posted they went in for issues, I think it was HPFP, dealer never said a word and did the warranty work...search for it...I think it's in this section.

Otherwise, it has been rumored that they could upload your DME to BMW and they have their ways to detect a tune. This has not been proven by anybody either.

The dealer service department itself, has absolutely no capability to find a flash tune if that is your concern.

[BrianMN]

Until we see a person go in with a GIAC tune for MAJOR warranty work, such as turbo replacement, actual engine or tranny damage, etc., we probably won't see a story pop up.

[twinship]

Originally Posted by techlogik

Not yet. Someone posted they went in for issues, I think it was HPFP, dealer never said a word and did the warranty work...search for it...I think it's in this section.

Otherwise, it has been rumored that they could upload your DME to BMW and they have their ways to detect a tune. This has not been proven by anybody either.

The dealer service department itself, has absolutely no capability to find a flash tune if that is your concern.

Thx.

I'm just trying to separate what we know MIGHT happen from what we know ACTUALLY happened.

From reading all the dire warnings, you'd think there was a history of folks getting busted for their GIAC tune. But when I searched, I couldn't find a single instance where someone reported that happening.

Hence the reality check...

[Mr. 5]

I've been a couple times and no issues.
You're right though. There's always the threats but it hasn't happened yet that I've seen on these forums.

[BobS]

I was in for a oil change and new spark plugs, they didn't detect it. They actually wrote over it with a software update. I didn't have the map switcher yet so i just left it. I'm going on friday to get reflashed with Stg 1 and to get a map switcher. The shop I go to only charges a half hour labor to get it reflashed ($50.00).

[JayKay335i]

Originally Posted by BobS

I was in for a oil change and new spark plugs, they didn't detect it. They actually wrote over it with a software update. I didn't have the map switcher yet so i just left it. I'm going on friday to get reflashed with Stg 1 and to get a map switcher. The shop I go to only charges a half hour labor to get it reflashed ($50.00).

The map switcher wont make any difference when it comes to them overwriting your tune. It is still the same GIAC S1 map, it just changes some values to make it more like the stock map, but it DOES NOT put a stock map back on your car and allow you to remap it back to the GIAC if it were to be overwritten.

Which shop are you going to in NJ? My local shop said if it ever gets rewritten or I need to go in for major work they'd flash it back and forth for free

[GaryS]

I really doubt they'd bother to test for it if they don't see hardware performance mods - maybe if you're asking for new turbos.

[zeenon53]

Very interesting thread. I'm in for more input.

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by BobS

I was in for a oil change and new spark plugs, they didn't detect it. They actually wrote over it with a software update. I didn't have the map switcher yet so i just left it. I'm going on friday to get reflashed with Stg 1 and to get a map switcher. The shop I go to only charges a half hour labor to get it reflashed ($50.00).

Where is this shop in NJ?

[I335]

Check out this thread...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436938

[BobS]

FYI

I know the map switcher doesn't get rid of the flash. But it will make the car perform "like" stock, which hopefully will decrease the chances of them looking for a Flash (if they can even find one).

My shop is AWE tuning. www.awetuning.com

Its actually in PA, slightly north of philadelphia, a 35 min drive from where I am in Southern NJ.

I've heard of some GIAC shops offering free reflashes, this one doesn't, i knew that going in.

I'm very happy with the flash, love the fact it doesn't throw codes, and feel this is the healthiest way to tune my car without causing any long term damage.

There are other GIAC auth. shops in our NJ/PA/NY area http://www.giacusa.com/dealermap/

[twinship]

Originally Posted by I335

Check out this thread...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436938

Thx, I saw that thread.

Your experience certainly seems to be the norm. Just wondering if there are any counterexamples out there.

So far, it seems not. Which is great news for those with GIAC tunes, and those considering getting one (like me).

[techlogik]

Nobody has had a GIAC flash detected. Then again, it hasn't been out long enough I think, and people with major issues haven't needed warranty work to find out if anything happened at this point.

I doubt anything will happen, unless it is something major and they upload the DME, then as far as I am concerned, Let the Games Begin!!!!

Let's see if BMW can find it and then prove that it is an aftermarket tune...I want evidence from BMW if that ever happens to show/prove how they actually detected an aftermarket tune. It would certainly help the community I think.

Now, they are flashing pretty much every car, from the recent reports, to try and resolve HPFP issues even for oil changes. So right there, the flash will be overwritten.

My local guy charges $50 for a reflash.

I am about 10 months from my factory 4yr/50k from running out, then I have CPO. I actually would be interested to have something major go wrong, and see what they can actually prove was done, and how far they would go to try NOT to fix a turbo/wastegate, HPFP etc...problem.

Also, from a local guy in Tampa, one dealer I would normally go to, he said his warranty was just voided, he was about 3 weeks from it being over anyway. But said a local regional rep was in the shop, he left his tune in, and they did some "investigating" to determine if it had mods. They saw the tune and said, sorry, no warranty work.

So obviously, a Piggyback can leave traces, particulary if you just leave it IN! But, even a so-called Regional rep, has no way to look at your car and find a flash tune. You just put it on stock tune, and they would never know. It would look all kosher to them, and they probably aren't in the business of just uploading DMEs and wasting time, to try and find a flash tune. I think visual checks are probably more the norm, and many dealers might not even care if some mods are on the car unless they are being held to standards and required to check for them.

[BobS]

I agree techlogik, dealerships are paid a certain amount from BMW for what warranty work they do, even down to how long they claim for diagnosis. Its a business. BMW's times are definitely not generous either, if there isn't a A class tech working on the car, they probably barely make the standard repair time set by BMW. When they have a major failure, if there is nothing obvious, they aren't going to spend countless hours looking for a random flash. My dealer has 40 service bays, its a mass production over there. They don't have time to look at every 335 that comes through. If your car is "over the top" modded, it may throw some red flags to look for mods to the engine. Even when the dme data is sent to bmw, I doubt they have any means of finding the flash or are interested in spending all the time to look for one. How many times does dme data get sent to bmw na per day from dealers all across the country? I'm guessing very very frequently.

I work for a Freightliner truck dealer, the dealerships live and die on standard repair times and are always trying to improve their warranty/service write-offs. None of these OEM's in the trucking industry or auto industry are generous with the standard repair times.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by techlogik

I doubt anything will happen, unless it is something major and they upload the DME, then as far as I am concerned, Let the Games Begin!!!!

Let's see if BMW can find it and then prove that it is an aftermarket tune..

If they don't find it, they're not trying. But they obviously can't take the time to read and upload the data for every car that goes in for warranty repair.

[roadkillrob]

I took mine in about 2 months ago, car had the fuel pump failure code 29DC and 2BFB maybe, can't remember exactly, car was updated to latest software campaign and the fuel pump was replaced with no issues or detection of the GIAC flash - went back to the GIAC dealer the next week and had it reflashed for free and have been good since!

Dealer doesn't have the equip to see that it is flashed - the GIAC flash doesn't increment the flash counter and check sums to the same as stock, if they where really suspicious, they would have to have the DME read and analyzed by corp. I have no doubt that it can be detected, but it is a lot of work and they would not bother looking unless you showed with a blown engine and trans, and if that is the case, you would be best to have it flashed back first.

Easiest way to detect it would be to take it for a drive I would guess (unless it is limping, then it is hard to tell, so now with the flash switcher, at least you can make it feel like stock if they drive it!)

[timhatimay]

Not an expert in flash tunes (or any tune for that matter), but I'm very curious in the results of this thread. Obviously as mentioned above, they are not normally going to look for a flash, and even with the PUMA case in the other thread they did not detect it (or say anything).

That being said I do believe the bulletins that came out for the N54 included looking for piggy-back AND flash type tunes. Also, from working on various microprocessor based equipment, you can upload settings and perform a settings compare in under 5 minutes. So depending on the link from the DME to the car (OBDII) speed and the amount of information, it probably wouldn't take that long to read and compare to the known software version on your car. This could probably be done even fast if they have the DME removed from the car. I could be wrong however, and they certainly would have to actively look for this. I think the GIAC tune looks great, and I really like the Stg 1 (hence why I'm reading GIAC threads).

Tim

[s.myrr]

Having the "stock" tune with the flashloader gives me near 100% confidence that the dealer will not notice during routine repairs. If I was going in for a major repair I would just flash back to real stock. Just have to remember not to leave the flashloader in the glove compartment!

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by s.myrr

Having the "stock" tune with the flashloader gives me near 100% confidence that the dealer will not notice during routine repairs. If I was going in for a major repair I would just flash back to real stock. Just have to remember not to leave the flashloader in the glove compartment!

This is basically my plan. If there is some major issue like turbos seem blown, big leaks etc...I will tow it to the giac dealer, flash stock..tow to dealer.

Let them fix it then.

But I still think it would be interesting to have some major go wrong, like turbos and just leave the flash and see what happens, not many people want to risk that though due to potential of being on the hook for repair costs if voided though.

[BobS]

Originally Posted by timhatimay

Not an expert in flash tunes (or any tune for that matter), but I'm very curious in the results of this thread. Obviously as mentioned above, they are not normally going to look for a flash, and even with the PUMA case in the other thread they did not detect it (or say anything).

That being said I do believe the bulletins that came out for the N54 included looking for piggy-back AND flash type tunes. Also, from working on various microprocessor based equipment, you can upload settings and perform a settings compare in under 5 minutes. So depending on the link from the DME to the car (OBDII) speed and the amount of information, it probably wouldn't take that long to read and compare to the known software version on your car. This could probably be done even fast if they have the DME removed from the car. I could be wrong however, and they certainly would have to actively look for this. I think the GIAC tune looks great, and I really like the Stg 1 (hence why I'm reading GIAC threads).

Tim

I think your giving the dealer's to much credit. The technician has the software to plug in, they look for codes, if no tuner codes, then they confirm the complaint as to why the car is there and procede with the repair. Rememeber these technicians are evaluated on effeciency they can't just start messing around to look for something they suspect is there. This is especially true if its a flat rate shop.

My plan is the same as others, if there is a major failure I will tow the car to get it flashed back to stock. Since this tune doesn't throw codes in the first place, and gets great power on lower boost, i'm confident if your going to tune, GIAC is one of the safest

[MarkD]

I'm not sure why people here think it's such a big effort for the dealer to detect a flash tune. If they buy some relatively cheap equipment, the dealer can read the DME and send the file to Germany or where ever, and it could automatically be compared and flagged if it is non-stock. It's not exactly rocket science. I can read a 335 or any other BMW model and determine if the flash is stock myself, so I'm sure BMW can set up the dealers to do it. As I mentioned, they can develop an automated process at the remote end so a single PC could compare hundreds of files each hour, if required.