[thread killer]

you say that, and the fx800 is rated for what? a brazillion ft/lbs? it still wears out if used behind a big turbo car like mine or my buddies (which is for sale by the way )


thats the reason i say im going to automatic when this clutch dies. stall converter, faster shifts, and a trans brake. its gonna be stupid fast

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

That is the only installer error I could conceivably see is the PP not bolted down properly too.

Remember CM does adjust the fulcrum point on the pressure plate and replaces the TOB/release lever. If there is a design issue, I would suspect it is possible it could be there? If the release lever was not correctly adjusted for the fulcrum point change, then it could mean the clutch would not fully engage or disengage with the pedal movement. I would think you would notice if it wasn't fully disengaging, but it is certainly possible that you would not know if it fully engaged.

Like you, I am amazed his clutch held up this long considering the unbelievable heat damage. I think it will you Dzenno's power level easily.

Look, this is very unlikely installer error, think i've said that at least 5x now but somehow that topic comes back everytime through pure speculation...it was installed by probably one of the best former BMW techs I know and his shop is the tits in/around Toronto when it comes to anything BMW...this is the only guy (not his shop but him specifically) that I trust with anything on my car...everyone can make mistakes, we're all human, but to say PP wasn't torqued down properly by this guy, no way on top of that you'd feel that problem right away and some of the bolts would've been noticeably loose when we took the PP off...they were all torqued tight and zero install issues were noticed when we took this out...once again, this wasn't installer error...fbis, i'll wait 2 posts down for you to hint at an install problem again

[thread killer]

no no no, just trying to throw out ALL speculation, but like i said...... it would be highly highly unlikely. clutches are very easy to diagnose when you put them in. either they work- or they dont


i have seen that isue (improperly torqued pressure plate), but it was a shade tree who tried to do it him self and didnt put the pressure plate on the dowels correctly, and FUBAR'ed everything. like i said, since it a "mystery" just trying to put out all ideas.



his second paragraph is spot on if that was the case, throwout bearing pivot angle incorrect, thus not fully disengaged. did the guy installing put any grease on the nose peice? i see this a lot on cars that get a second clutch put in, due to the clutch dust turning the grease into mung and sticking the throw out bearing

[shifterboy45]

hmmm...

sorry to hear youre having problems ---

hope you can get it all worked out...

[BALLAJL15]

I feel your pain... I went through 3 UUC multi-puck ceramic clutches. All clutches failed with less than 3k miles of use. Mind you these were used with the stock dual mass flywheel. I believe the dual mass was the cause for the failure in the ceramic clutches. After the 3rd ceramic failed, I got their "performance organic" clutch and that one lasted about 15k miles and started slipping right before my lease turn in. I turned in the car with the clutch slipping pretty bad and was thankful to get rid of it. I now have a 2011 335iAT

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

I feel your pain... I went through 3 UUC multi-puck ceramic clutches. All clutches failed with less than 3k miles of use. Mind you these were used with the stock dual mass flywheel. I believe the dual mass was the cause for the failure in the ceramic clutches. After the 3rd ceramic failed, I got their "performance organic" clutch and that one lasted about 15k miles and started slipping right before my lease turn in. I turned in the car with the clutch slipping pretty bad and was thankful to get rid of it. I now have a 2011 335iAT

That's very interesting...did UUC replace them under warranty?? how long before your OEM one went?

i'm starting to think that ceramic 6-pucks are definitely not the way to go here especially on daily driven setups where they see a ton of stop/go traffic...clutch worked flawlessly for the time it grabbed but quickly gave out...i'm seriously leaning towards a full face kevlar next...with proper brake in they can last 2-5x longer than any other material (this doesn't apply to my 4500km on the ceramic )

[BALLAJL15]

Originally Posted by dzenno

That's very interesting...did UUC replace them under warranty??

i'm starting to think that ceramic 6-pucks are definitely not the way to go here especially on daily driven setups where they see a ton of stop/go traffic...clutch worked flawlessly for the time it grabbed but quickly gave out...i'm seriously leaning towards a full face kevlar next...with proper brake in they can last 2-5x longer than any other material (this doesn't apply to my 4500km on the ceramic )

I forgot to mention that I did due a proper break in with all the clutches as well. Since you have an aftermarket single mass flywheel I am actually surprised at the failure. When my ceramic clutches failed there was no warning, no smell and no signs that it was "about" to fail. They just simply started slipping right away.

I attached images of my first failed ceramic clutch

[BALLAJL15]

Originally Posted by dzenno

That's very interesting...did UUC replace them under warranty?? how long before your OEM one went?

They did not replace any of the clutches under warranty and had an excuse for every failure. First was "installer error" I had every clutch installed by a bmw tech at the dealer...

Oem clutch went out at 12k miles. I did a lot of drag racing and hard launches...

[dzenno]

That was an 8 puck...sh*t!!

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Look, this is very unlikely installer error, think i've said that at least 5x now but somehow that topic comes back everytime through pure speculation...it was installed by probably one of the best former BMW techs I know and his shop is the tits in/around Toronto when it comes to anything BMW...this is the only guy (not his shop but him specifically) that I trust with anything on my car...everyone can make mistakes, we're all human, but to say PP wasn't torqued down properly by this guy, no way on top of that you'd feel that problem right away and some of the bolts would've been noticeably loose when we took the PP off...they were all torqued tight and zero install issues were noticed when we took this out...once again, this wasn't installer error...fbis, i'll wait 2 posts down for you to hint at an install problem again

not saying that it is an installer error,

but .. you can have an improperly torqued pressure plate and all the bolts be tight -- or overly tight....

it essenstial to incrementally cross-torque the pressure plate during installation. -- this will assure that the plate and the disc have equal fastening force around pressure area..

if someone zips the plate up with a 3/8 pistol grip air wrench, with no regard for cross torque you can wind up with uneven pressure distribution on the face of the plate and disc...

[dzenno]

here we go again

yes, I agree, but you would see uneven wear on pucks and/or flywheel which wasn't the case...take a look at the pics again...you'll notice VERY even wear...

[OpenFlash]

The ceramic clutch on my RX7tt failed on me as well. I just don't think they are suitable for daily driving. My guess is that the material is brittle when it is cold and only softens up like it should when it gets up to temp. Complete guess but that is what it felt like.

[thread killer]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

not saying that it is an installer error,

but .. you can have an improperly torqued pressure plate and all the bolts be tight -- or overly tight....

it essenstial to incrementally cross-torque the pressure plate during installation. -- this will assure that the plate and the disc have equal fastening force around pressure area..

if someone zips the plate up with a 3/8 pistol grip air wrench, with no regard for cross torque you can wind up with uneven pressure distribution on the face of the plate and disc...

think this is appropriate? lol

i zing all mine in with a 3/8 impact. guess what? none have ever come back

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The ceramic clutch on my RX7tt failed on me as well. I just don't think they are suitable for daily driving. My guess is that the material is brittle when it is cold and only softens up like it should when it gets up to temp. Complete guess but that is what it felt like.

How's your spec stg 2+ holding up? that's organic/kevlar?? how many miles?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dzenno

How's your spec stg 2+ holding up? that's organic/kevlar?? how many miles?

Holding up fine. No issues to speak of. I think it probably has 20k miles on it. And maybe a hundred passes at the drag strip. I did notice it slip very slightly once during 1 run (when shifting into 3rd) at 16psi w/ nitrous active. But the other 2 or 3 nitrous runs, it was fine. I think 500whp is probably the most you want to run the 2+ clutch at.

Shiv

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by thread killer

think this is appropriate? lol

i zing all mine in with a 3/8 impact. guess what? none have ever come back

may the force be with you .. my young paduwan

claiming lack of failure is no subsitute for experience --
but then again, what would this forum be if people didnt make remarks like yours.... technical maybe??

dz -- i didnt mean to infer your guy is incompetent, or you had a bad install --- i seems as though everyone that has a problem with their car, and its unsolved, gets a lil defensive... im sorry for the intrusion....

and its clear that no one wants to objectively approach some situations without spouting some claim of fame.. it like some vendors that say since it hasnt failed on other cars, it is impervious to sound logic. until guess what ---
IT DOES!!!!

-- caught signal 12 -- exiting gracefully

[thread killer]

no, but an ounce of doing this as a profession for the last 10 years is worth a pound of you keyboard quarterback remarks, now isnt it?

[shifterboy45]

7 areas of ASE
4 State Certs including Smog Certif
holding a BMW Schulenspass (some people know what it is, if youve been to BMW Training) since 1988

hmmmm... but i think we should leave off with the big d*** contest, right?

[boostd92]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Holding up fine. No issues to speak of. I think it probably has 20k miles on it. And maybe a hundred passes at the drag strip. I did notice it slip very slightly once during 1 run (when shifting into 3rd) at 16psi w/ nitrous active. But the other 2 or 3 nitrous runs, it was fine. I think 500whp is probably the most you want to run the 2+ clutch at.

Shiv

What's the engagement like out of first? Smooth as stock? Did you reuse a stock flywheel or lightweight?

Always curious where the pedal engages on A/M clutches as the stock ones are "self adjusting"

[thread killer]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

7 areas of ASE
4 State Certs including Smog Certif
holding a BMW Schulenspass (some people know what it is, if youve been to BMW Training) since 1988

hmmmm... but i think we should leave off with the big d*** contest, right?

who said i was in a shlong swinging contest? i didnt know we had to pull out the cert cards

my shuly is from 2000, (even though ASE means shit), but auto/heavy truck master, L1, and been a 6&3 point winner a few times as well..... seriously though.......





i want you to *think* about this for a second.
lets say

you can have an improperly torqued pressure plate and all the bolts be tight -- or overly tight....

it essenstial to incrementally cross-torque the pressure plate during installation. -- this will assure that the plate and the disc have equal fastening force around pressure area..

if someone zips the plate up with a 3/8 pistol grip air wrench, with no regard for cross torque you can wind up with uneven pressure distribution on the face of the plate and disc...

what happens when you push the clutch in for the first time? OMG OHE NOES! the disc gets released and all that magic uneven torque you speak of goes down the tube
wouldnt you also see a signifigant amount of excessive wear on the area that was improperly torqued, or over/under tightned as you say? that pic showing the pressure plate shows a pretty good score mark all the way around, not just on one area, as you would suggest.

then what.

IDK why/what got your panties in a bunch there buddy. hell we prolly sat together in class.... i was the one talking about going to the tittie bar the night before, and you were probably the grouchy old guy in the corner who shook his head at me, huh

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Holding up fine. No issues to speak of. I think it probably has 20k miles on it. And maybe a hundred passes at the drag strip. I did notice it slip very slightly once during 1 run (when shifting into 3rd) at 16psi w/ nitrous active. But the other 2 or 3 nitrous runs, it was fine. I think 500whp is probably the most you want to run the 2+ clutch at.

Shiv

Nitrous always brings out the best in clutches... and by best i mean worst.

Huge Tq FTW

[thread killer]

i agree Nitrous is a lot of fun. i had it on my mud race truck. it dynoed 351/490 and 502/700 on spray.....
all under 4500 rpm....lol max torque was at 2800rpm! :diesel: