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United 100 and E85
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08-15-2014, 02:06 AM | #1 |
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United 100 and E85
never knew United had 100 fuel (98ron + 10% enthanol) or even E85 as there's not that many United servos in Sydney.
I've been using only BP Ultimate for my car and thought I'd try United's 100 just to see if there's and difference. When I was filling up I didn't think it would make a difference and that it could actually be bad for the car, but as soon as I pulled out I thought that the car pulled harder and the throttle was more sensitive, but probably placebo. What do you guys think? Should I just stick with BP again after this tank? And also, is it safe to run E85 on my car?(DP, DCI, JB4) and if so, how much of it? I'm a noob to all this. thanks!!
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08-15-2014, 02:52 AM | #2 | |
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08-15-2014, 03:03 AM | #3 |
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United is the only 'mainstream' servo that you can get e85 from, that's where I get mine from.
What map are you using when running 100? For maximum benefit, you'd want to tune for it which will mean a back end flash to maximise gains and not controllable from just the jb4. |
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08-15-2014, 03:44 AM | #4 | |
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You are probably safe trying an E30-40 mix with a stock fuel system on map 5. Just remember that this does not mean 30-40% E85 and the rest pump fuel and especially doesn't mean the rest United 100. You need to get a calculator so you can correctly mix the right amount of E85 and other fuel to get 30-40% of ethanol. Also make sure you datalog so you know your fuel system is handling it.
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08-15-2014, 04:07 AM | #5 |
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thanks for the replies guys, I have a backend flash for pump fuel already and running map5. I need a separate backend flash to run E85 right? probably gonna hold out till I'm FBO. I seem to be getting more boost with the 100ron but I don't really pay attention to my boost gauge that much and can't tell you exactly how much it was before, around 14-15 I think
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08-15-2014, 05:26 PM | #7 | |
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08-16-2014, 02:44 AM | #8 |
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oh ok, just trying the 100 with this tank, fuel consumption is up tho, 14l/100km ://
and the only errors I've got is a left brake light error but I checked and none of the bulbs are out :/ happens randomly and sometimes when I got WOT
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08-16-2014, 04:50 AM | #9 |
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Ethanol is consumed at a much higher rate due to its density much like LPG. This is one of it's major drawbacks, but no-one uses E85 blends etc for it's economy but for increase of power!
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08-16-2014, 05:21 AM | #10 | |
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09-20-2014, 05:07 PM | #11 | |
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Owner's manual says it's a 63 litre tank with 8 in reserve (presume this means you actually have 8 litres left when trip computer says empty). So let's say you fill up with 60 litres of fuel as an example. If you're aiming for 30% ethanol, that's 18 litres out of 60. Given that E85 is (fairly obviously) 85% ethanol, you need to add 21 litres to get the 18 litres of ethanol (that's 18 / 0.85). That how it should be approached? Is 30% conservative enough due to the different calorific and therefore flow rates? Stock fuel system but running JB4 map5, CLDPs. Thanks.
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09-20-2014, 06:03 PM | #12 |
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from here http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10605
Not sure how well this translates across the pond given our different fuel qualities. Probably makes the below conservative Can I use E85 ethanol fuel with the JB4? If so what mixture should I use? 1) Generally speaking you can run 30-40% E85 without the need for logging or worrying about fuel trims, fuel pressure, etc. Just mix E85 in and select map 5. Done. 2) For those wanting to run higher mixtures (and more power) then you need to datalog. You'll want to first look at your low fuel pressure in the JB4 logs. If that is dropping below 50 then you're maxing out the low fuel pressure and should either reduce the E85 mixture or add fuel pump upgrade. 3) Next up look at fuel trims. If they are exceeding 50 in the JB4 logs & open loop is already at 90-100, or if you get 29F2 codes from having too high of an open loop, then you need to add the BMS back end flash for E85 fuels to extend the fueling range. The E85 flash also features VANOS changes, higher than factory timing advance, and some other stuff designed to help make more power on E85. 4) Finally after the flash and low pressure pump, you need to keep an eye on the high pressure pump. If it drops below 9 @ wide open throttle then you're maxing out the high pressure pump and need to lower the E85 mixture or lower the boost in the areas where it's dropping below 10. Right now there is no viable high pressure pump update. The only known solution that works is to add meth at this point. This is why BMS suggests 60-70% E85 and not 100% E85. The 100% E85 works the fuel system harder with no power benefit over say 70%. 5) Most cars will need an inline fuel pump upgrade OR meth to run more than 50% E85. We suggest this inexpensive inline option. 6) Using map 7 requires 50-60% E85, the back end flash, AND the fuel pump upgrade.
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09-22-2014, 05:31 AM | #13 |
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I have been using 30% E85 and the rest P100 at United for 8 months before I went RBs (1month ago) and now I use 60% E85 107 Race Blend with the E85 BB Flash. In my opinion, they are the best fuels certainly best E85. In fact I did a test to see whether I was getting E85 or less in winter and guess what? It was showing E90 plus!!
When I was running 30% E85 pre RB Turbo, I was Map 5 JB4 G5 ISO no flash. It gave me an extra 30rwkw (255rwkw increased to 285rwkw boosting 17.5psi) and better idle felt smooth strong and fast. Did not even activate my meth after this. And this was on a DD Dyno which reads 3% lower than a Mainline Dyno like the one at Melbourne Performance Centre. To work out the dosages of each fuel type, use the web address below as a calculator: intercepteft.com Yes, always do a log to see if your fuel trims, lpfp and hpfp are at appropriate levels especially once you use more than 30% E85. |
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09-22-2014, 10:39 AM | #14 | ||
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Generally E30 should be fine on a stock fuel system without any backend flash. Any higher and you'll want to datalog to make sure your fuel trims are in check. It's possible to go up to maybe E60-E70 on a stock fuel system provided you have a backend flash to adjust the fuel scalars. With the right fuel scalar and an upgraded LPFP, people have been knows to run straight E85 on stock turbos.
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09-22-2014, 05:51 PM | #15 |
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Good info guys. I did a tank of 30% ethanol 70% 98 Ron fuel. Left it on map 5 and drove for 40klms. No change or improvement in performance at all. Boost limited to roughly 10psi (so even lower than previous highs of 12) and tapering with higher rpms and gears. Disappoint.
So I swapped to map 2 and wow that's a lot better. Very strong performance. I then spoke to Active (where my JB4 was installed) who suggested map 2 was suitable (in any case) and recommended not using any ethanol. I'm not sure if they were suggesting it didn't add anything or that it actually wasn't recommended without some sort of back end flash (I suspect the latter). So, I'll try and tank of 98 next time as as long as there are no issues (i.e. swapping back into safer maps) I'll assume that's the way I'll continue...I guess as the weather gets hotter and intake temps and oil temps run higher I should watch out for detonation and perhaps this is where the ethanol will assist...Be interesting to see what you guys think of all of this. I wonder if I should be considering an intercooler upgrade in support of all of this. I know it's fairly high up the 'bolt on' list, but I also suspect having got the JB4 and the CLDPs I'm on the 'diminishing returns' side of the mod list. I'd also like to start exploring a back end flash so I'll have to research this a little more in terms of how it's done and what it actually achieves.
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09-22-2014, 10:29 PM | #16 |
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I have a PUMP backend flash on mine done at Active. It basically controls everything like fuel timing and all that stuff and leaves the JB4 to control just the boost pressure and it's extra features like shift light and all that (from what Steven explained to me)
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10-02-2014, 11:30 AM | #17 | |
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Fmic is only a must if you do runs after runs like maybe circuit racing. I would install first a water/meth injection kit before an intercooler Also, best to do a log when you only get 10psi Last edited by sublian; 10-02-2014 at 11:54 AM.. |
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10-02-2014, 11:56 AM | #18 |
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Love the lollies at Active Motorwerke!
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M4 Competition Pack Custom Trebilia Bef 100% E85 Map 6 Jb4. Stock everything else. |
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10-03-2014, 04:13 AM | #19 | |
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