[princelybug]

Great info.

[Cloud9blue]

You guys should realize by now that upgrading the oil cooler is only part of the equation. The stock radiator is insufficient as well, which will inevitable lead up to overheated oil AND coolant.

I only have a single (Dinan) oil cooler, but with the upgraded radiator, the car rarely goes above 250F on the track. And this is an automatic car, just to be clear, which runs hotter than one with manual transmission.

For the price of an upgraded radiator from CSF, $400-500 depending on the transmission type (but I got mine at a deep discount FYI), it is a much more cost effective solution than having two aftermarket oil coolers or trying to piece together your own from the auxiliary radiator part list.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

You guys should realize by now that upgrading the oil cooler is only part of the equation. The stock radiator is insufficient as well, which will inevitable lead up to overheated oil AND coolant.

I only have a single (Dinan) oil cooler, but with the upgraded radiator, the car rarely goes above 250F on the track. And this is an automatic car, just to be clear, which runs hotter than one with manual transmission.

For the price of an upgraded radiator from CSF, $400-500 depending on the transmission type (but I got mine at a deep discount FYI), it is a much more cost effective solution than having two aftermarket oil coolers or trying to piece together your own from the auxiliary radiator part list.

In 6AT's your statement about the stock radiator may be true. I am 6MT though so I do not suffer any deleterious effects of having to cool the transmission fluid like the 6AT does. The stock radiator in my car functions perfectly fine.

Honestly, this is more for fun than to really fix any serious shortfall in the car. I am going to replace the thermostat with that aftermarket unit just to add some longevity to the engine.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

In 6AT's your statement about the stock radiator may be true. I am 6MT though so I do not suffer any deleterious effects of having to cool the transmission fluid like the 6AT does. The stock radiator in my car functions perfectly fine.

Honestly, this is more for fun than to really fix any serious shortfall in the car. I am going to replace the thermostat with that aftermarket unit just to add some longevity to the engine.

I respectfully disagree. There is a coolant-to-oil heat exchanger built in to the OFH, as you might know. Better cooling of coolant will result in better control of oil temperature as well.

But again, if you enjoy working on the car, there is nothing wrong with that

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

I respectfully disagree. There is a coolant-to-oil heat exchanger built in to the OFH, as you might know. Better cooling of coolant will result in better control of oil temperature as well.

But again, if you enjoy working on the car, there is nothing wrong with that

I do know about that. I also know that direct cooling of the oil via a oil to air core (or multiple in this case) is much more effective at rejecting heat than the small oil to coolant exchanger in the OFH. Adding external cooling capacity to the oil system has the benefit of reducing the total cooling load on the engine coolant system which makes the OEM radiator's job easier. BMW also knew this which is why they installed the OEM oil cooler in the first place on cars with the High Speed Synchronization option (which taxes the engine more than normal highway speeds).

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

I do know about that. I also know that direct cooling of the oil via a oil to air core (or multiple in this case) is much more effective at rejecting heat than the small oil to coolant exchanger in the OFH. Adding external cooling capacity to the oil system has the benefit of reducing the total cooling load on the engine coolant system which makes the OEM radiator's job easier. BMW also knew this which is why they installed the OEM oil cooler in the first place on cars with the High Speed Synchronization option (which taxes the engine more than normal highway speeds).

Well, without concrete data, there is not much to argue for or against this statement, to be frank.

But by going with your logic, why do BMW not add a secondary oil cooler in 335is, 1M, or PPK Stage 2 cars. But instead, they added higher capacity radiator fan and an auxiliary radiator. It would be simpler and less costly to add just another oil cooler from an OEM aspect.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Well, without concrete data, there is not much to argue for or against this statement, to be frank.

But by going with your logic, why do BMW not add a secondary oil cooler in 335is, 1M, or PPK Stage 2 cars. But instead, they added higher capacity radiator fan and an auxiliary radiator. It would be simpler and less costly to add just another oil cooler from an OEM aspect.

Because those cars suffer from high coolant temps due to the overwhelming use of AT over MT. I do not disagree that the coolant system in an AT has to work harder and may need a more efficient radiator. My point is that in an MT the coolant system is less stressed and should not need much modification.

The point is, you address the system that is suffering, not the one it drives. If we are seeing higher than nominal oil temps we need to improve oil cooling. The same goes for engine coolant temps.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

Because those cars suffer from high coolant temps due to the overwhelming use of AT over MT. I do not disagree that the coolant system in an AT has to work harder and may need a more efficient radiator. My point is that in an MT the coolant system is less stressed and should not need much modification.

The point is, you address the system that is suffering, not the one it drives. If we are seeing higher than nominal oil temps we need to improve oil cooling. The same goes for engine coolant temps.

Well, for one, I would be more interested in retaining the OEM reliability. Adding a secondary cooler is problematic due to rubbing issue that arise with those flexible SS or nylon hoses that most people use. That's one of the biggest issue I have with all the aftermarket dual oil cooler setup. BMW was wise enough to use hard lines for any oil or coolant lines that run close to other components in the engine bay.

The engine is essentially a heat generator, which you have to shed off the excess thermal load to keep within the operating temperature. Sure, you can do that either through the coolant or oil system (or simply through circulation of ambient air, as with air cooled engines).

But keep this in mind, a radiator, with water based coolant, will do a much better job of shedding off such thermal load than any oil cooler, simply due to the higher thermal conductivity of water relative to that of oil, which enable a much faster heat transfer. That's why I believe upgrading the coolant system is necessary as well, whether it is an AT or MT car, which is often overlooked on this platform.

[terryd5150]

Hi Cloud9:

You have some vaild points; I'm unsure of the point you're trying to convey, though.

If you're saying that one modification has to occur for the other to be effective, then that's not entirely accurate. I say this considering that no car with an oil cooler would ever run below 240/250* oil temp if this were the case - when, in fact, they do.

If you're saying that both should occur to experience maximum benefit from either system, then that is entirely accurate.

Both systems leave something to be desired in their OEM form and for maximum engine longevity (more important than performance) both systems need to be addressed; however, assuming both systems are functioning properly the one I'd start with first is the oil cooling system as the temps there are 40* higher than they need to be, with the water only being about 20* higher than it needs to be.

I don't think the spirit and intent of this thread is to advocate that the oil cooler is the only thermal system that needs attention, but merely to serve as a "here's how" for this system.

At the end, though, both systems should be upgraded.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

Hi Cloud9:

You have some vaild points; I'm unsure of the point you're trying to convey, though.

If you're saying that one modification has to occur for the other to be effective, then that's not entirely accurate. I say this considering that no car with an oil cooler would ever run below 240/250* oil temp if this were the case - when, in fact, they do.

If you're saying that both should occur to experience maximum benefit from either system, that that is entirely accurate.

Both systems leave something to be desired in their OEM form and for maximum engine longevity (more important than performance) both systems need to be addressed; however, assuming both systems are functioning properly the one I'd start with first is the oil cooling system as the temps there are 40* higher than they need to be, with the water only being about 20* higher than it needs to be.

I don't think the spirit and intent of this thread is to advocate that the oil cooler is the only thermal system that needs attention, but merely to serve as a "here's how" for this system.

At the end, though, both systems should be upgraded.

All I am saying is that it is more cost effective in terms of component reliability and over all cooling efficiency to upgrade the radiator AND going with a single oil cooler setup ($700 for OC and $400 for radiator), than spending more on a dual oil cooler setup ($1400). Sure, you can piece together your own kit for less, but as I mentioned, the abundant use of lengthy flexible SS or nylon lines for oil routing is not ideal for a car with such tight engine bay like ours.

My apology for the thread jack though. I just want to make sure that people are aware of the coolant issue as well, that oil temp isn't the sole issue on this car.

[terryd5150]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

All I am saying is that it is more cost effective in terms of component reliability and over all cooling efficiency to upgrade the radiator AND going with a single oil cooler setup ($700 for OC and $400 for radiator), than spending more on a dual oil cooler setup ($1400).

My apology for the thread jack though. I just want to make sure that people are aware of the coolant issue as well, that oil temp isn't the sole issue on this car.

I don't consider it a thread jack, I think you're bringing a valid perspective and I welcome the discussion.

If the quoted prices above were the only way to improve each system, then I would
have to agree wholeheartedly that the better bang for the buck, in that scenario, would be to address the water cooling system.

However, this thread details how to set-up a dual-core oil cooling system using only OEM parts and, thus, coming in at far less than the similar $1400 aftermarket units.

I have less than $600 in my dual-core system and that includes the price of the oil filter housing as my XI didn't come with an oil cooler.

I would, however, like to continue with a sidebar discussion (and somewhat relevant given we're discussing thermal exchange with fluids):

I'm assuming you have the CSF radiator, a product that's on my hit list. Are you running a JB4, also? If so, do you run it on "max cool" mode?

As you've pointed out, the water cooling system compliments the oil cooling system; since I've built a robust oil cooling system I'm highly interested in doing the same on the water side.

From my current research, CSF seems like the best option at the moment and I'd welcome your thoughts on it, especially if you're running it in tandem with the JB4.

[paradoxical3]

I have the CSF radiator and just upgraded to a custom fab dual core oil cooler solution. Can't wait to try it out at Watkins Glen next week, but on the street it has about 40F drop in oil temps. Installed a 180F in line thermostat to help the car warmup faster.








My car should now be able to essentially run enduro races, as far as cooling goes - even with max boost on the upgraded turbo.

[terryd5150]

Nice set-up, Paradoxical!

Is that an M-Sport brake variant?

Are you AT or MT?

[Dozhdbog]

This thread is full of win.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

Nice set-up, Paradoxical!

Is that an M-Sport brake variant?

Are you AT or MT?

Thanks!

That is a Stoptech ST60 big brake kit. My car is an AT, which is why the CSF radiator is even nicer since it cools the transmission as well.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

I don't consider it a thread jack, I think you're bringing a valid perspective and I welcome the discussion.

If the quoted prices above were the only way to improve each system, then I would
have to agree wholeheartedly that the better bang for the buck, in that scenario, would be to address the water cooling system.

However, this thread details how to set-up a dual-core oil cooling system using only OEM parts and, thus, coming in at far less than the similar $1400 aftermarket units.

I have less than $600 in my dual-core system and that includes the price of the oil filter housing as my XI didn't come with an oil cooler.

I would, however, like to continue with a sidebar discussion (and somewhat relevant given we're discussing thermal exchange with fluids):

I'm assuming you have the CSF radiator, a product that's on my hit list. Are you running a JB4, also? If so, do you run it on "max cool" mode?

As you've pointed out, the water cooling system compliments the oil cooling system; since I've built a robust oil cooling system I'm highly interested in doing the same on the water side.

From my current research, CSF seems like the best option at the moment and I'd welcome your thoughts on it, especially if you're running it in tandem with the JB4.

As I mentioned, the biggest issue I have with any dual oil cooler setup is the use of lengthy flexible SS or nylon oil lines, which is very difficult to route without having them rubbing on something. And there is no good way to inspect them after some track times without taking the bumper or undercarriage panel off.

In addition, I am not convinced that adding two cooler in series together with about several ft of extra oil lines is good for the oil pressure. But I have no data to support that claim at the moment. But the two reasons mentioned above are why I stayed with a single core setup for the oil cooler and desperately searched for an aftermarket radiator upgrade instead, which I was fortunately to find out that CSF was starting to make one.

My current setup is a Dinan oil cooler (got it used, uninstalled from a seller here, would never pay the insane retail price that Dinan charge), the PPK stage 2 / 335is aux. radiator, and the CSF radiator.

I used to run max. cool mode when I was running stock radiator and oil cooler, but I didn’t feel the need with all the added cooling capacity. At my last track outing from two weeks ago, my oil temp never topped 260F with ambient temp of around 70F after going pretty all out for the full 25 mins session, which I was quite happy with considering this is an FBO automatic car running at 15-16 psi of boost on a rather tight club track that doesn’t allow much cool down time between each WOT. I don’t want to sound cocky or anything, but I am definitely not gentle on the car and usually are one of the fastest guys in my advanced intermediate group. In comparison, in stock cooling configuration from last year, my car would frequently hit above 270F and up to 280F in oil temp (even with max cool mode and heater on full blast) and the JB4 would back kick itself into stock boost protection mode. That really sucked, because I have get out of the rhythm and do a cool down lap or two.

CSF is certainly the best option at the moment and the only option if you have an automatic car. And they are very reasonably priced, with barely any BMW tax. Can't say the same about the Mishimoto ones.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I have the CSF radiator and just upgraded to a custom fab dual core oil cooler solution. Can't wait to try it out at Watkins Glen next week, but on the street it has about 40F drop in oil temps. Installed a 180F in line thermostat to help the car warmup faster.








My car should now be able to essentially run enduro races, as far as cooling goes - even with max boost on the upgraded turbo.

That should be more than enough for you!

[CHI335]

For someone that's looking for options on oil coolers this is one of the best threads I have read. Thanks for starting this one and for all the input, it's a really good read! I do have one question. I have a 6MT without the oil cooler so I have to replace the oil housing. I'm debating whether I should get the oem thermostat or use a plate with an inline thermostat. My question is in the temperature. If I where to do an inline thermostat I would do an 185 deg instead of the 220, which is the oem temp one. Someone mentioned that they installed a 180 to warm up the car faster. I thought once the temp reached 180 it starts running through the oil cooler giving it an earlier start than the 220 therefore keeping it a little cooler earlier. Am I missing something?

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by CHI335

For someone that's looking for options on oil coolers this is one of the best threads I have read. Thanks for starting this one and for all the input, it's a really good read! I do have one question. I have a 6MT without the oil cooler so I have to replace the oil housing. I'm debating whether I should get the oem thermostat or use a plate with an inline thermostat. My question is in the temperature. If I where to do an inline thermostat I would do an 185 deg instead of the 220, which is the oem temp one. Someone mentioned that they installed a 180 to warm up the car faster. I thought once the temp reached 180 it starts running through the oil cooler giving it an earlier start than the 220 therefore keeping it a little cooler earlier. Am I missing something?

I just recently installed a lower temp thermostat that fits into the OEM housing:

http://www.ad-eng.net/store/p19/BMW_...hermostat.html

This unit opens up around 180 and my temps stabilize around 210-230 depending on conditions and driving. Very good value compared to the cost of a block-off plate and external thermostat.

More to your question. The thermostat is there to block off oil flow to the external cooler until the oil reaches a set temperature. This means the oil will warm up to operating temperature faster. The lower temp thermostats are used to lower that operating temperature and make more use of the OEM cooler (or aftermarket cooling solutions).

[terryd5150]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

I just recently installed a lower temp thermostat that fits into the OEM housing:

http://www.ad-eng.net/store/p19/BMW_...hermostat.html

This unit opens up around 180 and my temps stabilize around 210-230 depending on conditions and driving. Very good value compared to the cost of a block-off plate and external thermostat.

More to your question. The thermostat is there to block off oil flow to the external cooler until the oil reaches a set temperature. This means the oil will warm up to operating temperature faster. The lower temp thermostats are used to lower that operating temperature and make more use of the OEM cooler (or aftermarket cooling solutions).

Glad you bumped this; still running my system with the plastic fittings and pinch crimp hose clamps - still no leaks. I do want to add, though, that this car is DD only, it doesn't see a track.

I'll probably be taking this set-up off this car in the next few weeks as I'll be trading it in at some point (looking for a non-XI with a manual trans).

I will, however, be replicating this set-up on the next one, although I'll probably thread the inlets on the secondary cooler and install a more robust connection on that side.

[BMSE92_Harry]

[QUOTE=jwzimm;18177329]I just recently installed a lower temp thermostat that fits into the OEM housing:

http://www.ad-eng.net/store/p19/BMW_...hermostat.html

This unit opens up around 180 and my temps stabilize around 210-230 depending on conditions and driving. Very good value compared to the cost of a block-off plate and external thermostat.

QUOTE]

For this set up, the website doesn't have a DIY, is it hard to install? What is involved to get this running?
I too, run JB4 with MAXCOOL, doesn't go to the track, drives a N54 AT, should I start with this project or just upgrade to a bigger oil cooler?

[terryd5150]

[QUOTE=Harrychiu012;18181633]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

I just recently installed a lower temp thermostat that fits into the OEM housing:

http://www.ad-eng.net/store/p19/BMW_...hermostat.html

This unit opens up around 180 and my temps stabilize around 210-230 depending on conditions and driving. Very good value compared to the cost of a block-off plate and external thermostat.

QUOTE]

For this set up, the website doesn't have a DIY, is it hard to install? What is involved to get this running?
I too, run JB4 with MAXCOOL, doesn't go to the track, drives a N54 AT, should I start with this project or just upgrade to a bigger oil cooler?

Start with the oil thermostat replacement first.