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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > DIY Guides > DIY: E90 Oil Pan Gasket and Subframe Drop



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      01-24-2016, 04:38 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
You have to remove the wheels or the subframe will not drop far enough. You can't have the car on ramps on the front wheels. Just get four good flat-top stands and put them under the lifting blocks on the sides of the car. The car will sit on stands under the lifting blocks for a 100 years and not fall off.
I didn't remove my wheels. I had the car on jackstands, with the wheels dangling.

But my subframe dropped barely enough to get the pan out, so maybe I should have removed them (although I don't really see how removing the wheels lets the subframe drop further).
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      01-24-2016, 09:15 PM   #68
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2. The OP must have a Turbo (??), with oil return line going to the oil pan. There was no oil return line attached to my '07 328i pan.
First year N52's (330 and 325) have oil return lines. They have magnesium alloy valve covers and oil separator/pcv valve outside of this valve cover under the manifold. From this oil separator an oil return line goes into the oil pan.

Later year N52's (I think technically they are called N52K or something like that) have plastic valve covers. And these plastic valve covers contain the oil separator and pcv valve on them. So for those (328 in US), the return "line" is inside the valve cover inside the engine and as a result their oil pan's have that oil return line hole just plugged.
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      01-24-2016, 09:18 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by SoCalE90i View Post
My automatic had those three bolts and bracket, too.
I believe those three bolts, bolt on to the oil pan, not just get in the way. The oil pan being Aluminum not magnesium, steel bolt into is fine. The crank case and block is magnesium on N52's. The oil pan bolts go into the magnesium crank case, so they are aluminum and one time use.
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      01-25-2016, 04:49 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
I believe those three bolts, bolt on to the oil pan, not just get in the way. The oil pan being Aluminum not magnesium, steel bolt into is fine. The crank case and block is magnesium on N52's. The oil pan bolts go into the magnesium crank case, so they are aluminum and one time use.
On the manual transmission cars the oil pan is steel and the bolts do not thread in to the pan.
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      01-25-2016, 05:09 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalE90i View Post
Thanks for this very helpful thread. I did the job on my 2007 328i this weekend. A few things that may help others in the future:


11. The factory didn't use any sealant (that I could see) on the gasket. I went back an forth on whether to use it. On the one hand, the factory didn't use it. But on the other hand, the factory job started leaking in 50K miles. I decided to use a thin layer of Dirko (a German RTV sealant used by BMW and MB) on both sides of the gasket. We'll see if that was a good decision in the long run.
I think the gasket is not a very good design (at least the one for the steel oil pan). It has a metal center with a 3-ribbed rubber seal on the inside lip, and a flat rubber seal on the outer lip. The 3-rib rubber seal just hardens over time and looses its compression. I think adding RTV gasket sealer is worth the extra step. The factory doesn't use it because it probably adds a few minutes of time to the engine build and the original seal without RTV gets through the warranty period.
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      01-25-2016, 10:10 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
On the manual transmission cars the oil pan is steel and the bolts do not thread in to the pan.
Interesting, I had thought they were all aluminum, but shop-manuals website had torque values for aluminum and sheet metal oil pans.

Took a closer look at realoem.com. It appears the first year RWD manuals transmission N52's have sheet metal oil pans, auto RWD versions have cast metal (aluminum I believe). Later year RWD N52 (328i in US) manual or auto seems to be cast metal oil pan, with different part numbers though.

XI (AWD) oil pan's I think are all cast aluminum across the board, because they become structural carrying the front differential bolted on them. My manual 325xi has cast aluminum oil pan.

The sheet metal oil pans don't have places for those horizontal bolts to go as you mentioned from the pictures. The cast metal pans have holes for those bolts to go into, including mine. But I am not positive those holes were threaded or not, I thought they were threaded but don't remember well.
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      01-25-2016, 10:44 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I think the gasket is not a very good design (at least the one for the steel oil pan). It has a metal center with a 3-ribbed rubber seal on the inside lip, and a flat rubber seal on the outer lip. The 3-rib rubber seal just hardens over time and looses its compression. I think adding RTV gasket sealer is worth the extra step. The factory doesn't use it because it probably adds a few minutes of time to the engine build and the original seal without RTV gets through the warranty period.
The gasket for the aluminum pan is the same design.

I agree, it seems like a bad design, so many leaking with relatively few miles seems to prove that.
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      02-07-2016, 11:28 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalE90i
Thanks for this very helpful thread. I did the job on my 2007 328i this weekend. A few things that may help others in the future:

1. You'll see some other threads about trying to do this without dropping the subframe, by cutting the gasket, etc. That's some seriously bad advice.

First, there's no way to ensure that nothing will drop into the oil pan while you are doing this. And there's a good chance junk will drop in there. If it does, there's no way to get it out, because there will be at least a half quart of oil left in the bottom of the pan that the junk will drop into.

Second, not dropping the subframe will make the job longer and harder. Everything is harder to get to with the subframe in place. And dropping it is only a few bolts, it's very quick and easy, both to get it down and to get it back up. In the context of this job, not dropping the subframe doesn't safe time. I've been wrenching for 30 years and love shortcuts, but not dropping the subframe isn't a shortcut, is a crazy hack and is bad advice.

2. The OP must have a Turbo (??), with oil return line going to the oil pan. There was no oil return line attached to my '07 328i pan.

3. The OP must also be a manual trans. For those of us with automatics, there's 2 oil cooler lines that run right near the upper row of oil pan bolts and is attached to the pan with 2 brackets and 10mm nuts. Makes it a little bit of a pain to get to those bolts.

4. My car didn't have the angle sensor on the control arm, as shown in the original post.

5. On my car, there's a hard coolant line that is attached to the front of the subframe, it's connected with a soft hose to the water pump and held to the subframe by 2 Torx bolts. This needs to be detached from the subframe, otherwise it doesn't drop down far enough to easily remove the oil pan.

6. I used a regular, straight engine support bar (not the 3 prong one like in the original post). It worked fine. Any engine support bar is going to be way overkill, since they are designed to hold engines that aren't attached to the transmission, which puts the full weight of the engine on it. Since we're not removing the trans, the bar isn't holding much weight.

7. You're gonna need a good selection of extensions and wobble joints to get to all the oil pan bolts.

8. There's nothing hard about the job. It does take some time, though, just given the number of bolts and screw that need to be undone. Between the plastic shields under the car, the oil pan bolts, etc., it's dozens of screws, nuts, bolts that need to be undone. Nothing hard, just a little time consuming.

9. I didn't take the front wheels off, didn't need to.

10. My car had 58,000 miles on it. The bolts were still tight, but the gasket was leaking in numerous spots.

11. The factory didn't use any sealant (that I could see) on the gasket. I went back an forth on whether to use it. On the one hand, the factory didn't use it. But on the other hand, the factory job started leaking in 50K miles. I decided to use a thin layer of Dirko (a German RTV sealant used by BMW and MB) on both sides of the gasket. We'll see if that was a good decision in the long run.

Anyways, thanks for a great writeup! It was very helpful.
My '06 is not turbo (325i) with manual.
Which brings me to question how many things did BMW change or alter between models & years?
I'm noticing the differences between some of the posters here even with similar models.
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      02-17-2016, 04:06 AM   #75
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1/2 way point experience

Cheers to KrashFinatik and everyone else for adding to this DIY thread. Weather has been warm yesterday, so I attempted this job - i'm now at the 1/2 way point (oil pan is out - needs to be cleaned)

I thought I would add some impressions and seek council.

The most difficult part of this job has been getting the oil pan out - I had to really wiggle around the subframe, and it eventually shimmied out - but not without a lot of frustration. (wheels are off, support bar from harbor freight is at maximum height)
I didn't remove the plastic coolant line that runs across the front of the subframe - I'll check/remove this morning and see if i get a few more inches of clearance.

The dreaded oil return line! (I have a manual transmission N52). It took 2 swift hits with a flat screwdriver and ball-peen hammer and it came off - BUT - a plastic tab/clip from inside the oil return connector came flying off as well from the opposite side (i hit oil return line on the left, the tab came off on the right). The integrity of the oil return head is in tact, it appears to be one of the 4 clips that secures the oil return line to the oil pan tube. It's something I'll check for leaking after everything is back in place. If anyone has experience with this and recommends I remove the intake manifold and change oil return line please let me know.

Again, thanks for this DIY!
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      02-17-2016, 05:26 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceweasel View Post
Cheers to KrashFinatik and everyone else for adding to this DIY thread. Weather has been warm yesterday, so I attempted this job - i'm now at the 1/2 way point (oil pan is out - needs to be cleaned)

I thought I would add some impressions and seek council.

The most difficult part of this job has been getting the oil pan out - I had to really wiggle around the subframe, and it eventually shimmied out - but not without a lot of frustration. (wheels are off, support bar from harbor freight is at maximum height)
I didn't remove the plastic coolant line that runs across the front of the subframe - I'll check/remove this morning and see if i get a few more inches of clearance.

The dreaded oil return line! (I have a manual transmission N52). It took 2 swift hits with a flat screwdriver and ball-peen hammer and it came off - BUT - a plastic tab/clip from inside the oil return connector came flying off as well from the opposite side (i hit oil return line on the left, the tab came off on the right). The integrity of the oil return head is in tact, it appears to be one of the 4 clips that secures the oil return line to the oil pan tube. It's something I'll check for leaking after everything is back in place. If anyone has experience with this and recommends I remove the intake manifold and change oil return line please let me know.

Again, thanks for this DIY!
Disassemble the plastic heater hose line running across the front of the subfame. It is affixed to the subframe by two torx bolts along the front and one torx bolt on the drivers side. It will let the subframe drop much farther and move around a lot more. Also jack the engine up as far as it will go in the front. Once you do those two things you'll have plenty of room to put the pan back in.

On the oil return line, did the clip break or just fly off somewhere?
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      02-17-2016, 07:22 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Disassemble the plastic heater hose line running across the front of the subfame. It is affixed to the subframe by two torx bolts along the front and one torx bolt on the drivers side. It will let the subframe drop much farther and move around a lot more. Also jack the engine up as far as it will go in the front. Once you do those two things you'll have plenty of room to put the pan back in.

On the oil return line, did the clip break or just fly off somewhere?
I'll do that!

The clip did in fact break. There are 4 prong like structures inside the retaining collar of the oil crankcase valve drain hose - i actually found the piece that came out. The collar itself is intact. Unless you council differently - or the risk of a leak is 100%, on assembly, if I don't feel/hear a good click or if it doesn't feel secure when I reconnect it back to the oil pan tube, I may have to replace it. Pelican lists this as a part that they don't reuse.

Thanks!

edit: For anyone interested - it's Part #: 11-15-7-567-801-M9
I hope it's ok, cuz removing the intake manifold to access the crankcase is a long job

Last edited by flexspec; 02-17-2016 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: added part number
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      02-17-2016, 12:51 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Disassemble the plastic heater hose line running across the front of the subfame. It is affixed to the subframe by two torx bolts along the front and one torx bolt on the drivers side. It will let the subframe drop much farther and move around a lot more.
OMG! ROOM FOR DAYS!!! You sir are a "mechanical angel" with Bavarian wings!

Oil pan is going in now - took a break to quickly say thank you.

Next up is seeing if 3 clips will hold the crankcase valve drain hose to the oil pan tube. If this works I am so golden!

Will report back.

UPDATE: crankcase valve drain hose clipped in!! Torquing down oil pan bolts now. Will double check once oil is in and running.

UPDATE 2 (final): NO LEAKS! Let the car run for 5 mins paying particular attention around the crankcase vale drain hose - all clear. Gasket is looking solid as well.

TIP - you can seat/clip the crankcase valve drain hose to the oil pan tube (if ur car has one) by removing the steering fluid reservoir moving it out of the way and reaching from above and pushing it down onto the oil pan tube - u will hear an audible "click"

Thank you all!!

Last edited by flexspec; 02-17-2016 at 08:00 PM.. Reason: final update
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      02-17-2016, 08:50 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceweasel View Post
OMG! ROOM FOR DAYS!!! You sir are a "mechanical angel" with Bavarian wings!

Oil pan is going in now - took a break to quickly say thank you.

Next up is seeing if 3 clips will hold the crankcase valve drain hose to the oil pan tube. If this works I am so golden!

Will report back.

UPDATE: crankcase valve drain hose clipped in!! Torquing down oil pan bolts now. Will double check once oil is in and running.

UPDATE 2 (final): NO LEAKS! Let the car run for 5 mins paying particular attention around the crankcase vale drain hose - all clear. Gasket is looking solid as well.

TIP - you can seat/clip the crankcase valve drain hose to the oil pan tube (if ur car has one) by removing the steering fluid reservoir moving it out of the way and reaching from above and pushing it down onto the oil pan tube - u will hear an audible "click"

Thank you all!!
Excellent! I'm glad everything worked out well with the repair. Let's not forget Krashfinatic wrote a great original DYI for all of us to follow and add too.
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      02-17-2016, 09:39 PM   #80
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Just finished this job Monday on my 2011 E90 N52. Thank you KrashFinatik and Efthreeoh for all your help! I didn't have to mess with the steering rack and column at all just like Efthreeoh said.


I also let the oil drain out the night before which helped keep things from getting too messy.

Here are a few photos.
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      04-11-2016, 01:24 PM   #81
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I did this job on my 2007 335i automatic with 115,000 miles on it this past weekend. My oil pan had been dripping for the past year and I'd need to put in a quart every 1200 miles. This past week the car took a dump and dropped about a half quart in my garage overnight. So I went ahead and bought the parts and got to work.

Because I'm a novice at wrenching, it took me about three days to finish the job (maybe 20 hours of labor). The difference between mine and OPs write-up is that the power steering pump is mounted to the oil pan and needs to be removed. In order to reinstall the pump, you need to have someone with a t60 socket and a breaker bar torque the tensioner pulley to release tension on the belt so you can route the belt back on the power steering pulley.

Unfortunately after I put everything back in place and refilled the oil, the car was still weeping oil between the bell housing and the oil pan. I'm assuming that the slow leak that I've had this year was the oil pan and the gusher this past week was my rear main seal giving up the ghost. I've replaced the oil filter housing gasket and valve cover gasket within the past 15000 miles. It could just be my shoddy workmanship but I'm not seeing any oil leaking from above. Also, I thoroughly cleaned up the underside of the car to verify that the oil pan and everything forward of the transmission is dry. Strange thing is when I shove my finger in the little capped hole in front of the bell, I'm not feeling any oil?!?!

I've called my local BMW indy shop and was quoted a price of 1200 for the RMS. I'm going to pull the trigger on this one because I'm done. Plus, from what I can see on the Bentley manual it looks like I would need a butt load of specialized tools to do it. Maybe I'll get lucky and the oil is coming from the turbo lines. I'll update after I get the car back whether I'm golden or if I've driven the car off of a cliff.

Last edited by guerve; 04-11-2016 at 01:38 PM..
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      04-21-2016, 06:28 AM   #82
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Hi Everyone,

I am about to tackle this job this weekend, to me it doesn't look very bad, especially thanks to this great thread, anyone who has skipped to the end of this post I suggest you go and read every page, there are some very good tips. I would also like to contribute by putting up the official BMW torque specs from TIS for the majority of the bolts that need removing.

Note: my car is 2006 E90 325i Automatic (In Australia this model got the zf 6HP19Z transmission so I don't know if there are any differences between models)

First thing's first, oil pan bolts, with my transmission you get 3 different type of bolts, here they all are and their torque specs:
In case the image dissapears the small bolts are 8nm or 6ft-lbs + 90 degrees the rest are 8nm or 6ft-lbs + 180 degrees.


Note: For the below I used an online calculator to convert Nm to ft-lbs so make sure you check yourself just in-case its wrong.

The Triangle support brace under the car:
I believe 4 bolts
56nm + 90 degrees

The front axle bolts:
There should be 6 of these
108 NM(80 ft-lbs), first tighten the two towards the front of the car, then the middle and finally the ones at the back of the car.

The two bolts at the bottom of the engine mounts:
28nm (20 ft-lbs)

The Nuts on top of the engine mounts:
56nm (41 ft-lbs)
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      04-24-2016, 04:05 AM   #83
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Came back to give my feedback.

I can only say that for me this was an extremely painful job, I've done a lot of other things on this car but this takes the cake. This really is not a job for the garage floor, especially for people with Automatic transmissions as the transmission lines will make your life hell.

If i was to do this again these would be my tips for the at home mechanics.

1. Drop the subframe completely and remove it. When you are at the point where the subframe is dropped there are only 6 bolts left holding it. The lower upper control arms and the two steering rack bolts. Do yourself a favor and remove the subframe completely.

2. Remove air filter box and move power steering reservoir to the side. This helped me a lot to get to things.

3. Be very very careful when putting back the pan with the stupid design of the pan and the gasket you have to tie the gasket to the pan. I pushed and shoved and ended up quite deforming the gasket, I evened it out later but this added a world of pain when trying to put the bolts back in as not much was lining up straight away.

4. Find an indy and pay him to do the job. I see no reason why this can't be done in 3 hours on a hoist, i don't care what people are charging. I had everything removed in two hours and that's on the garage floor.

5. Skip the engine support bar the one you need will be very expensive, if you can get your self an engine hoist there are heaps of cheap ones that make life so much easier, the engine needs to be raised a lot!
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      04-25-2016, 09:43 PM   #84
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Appropriate way to disconnect oil return line for metal valve cover cars

I recently bought a new return line and inspecting it closely I found out how to appropriately and easily disconnect it. I am talking about that oil return line from oil return tube on metal valve cover N52's (US 2006 330 and 325s).

It is meant to be disconnected by a fuel/ac quick disconnect. Any push, pull, press etc from outside on those tabs won't do anything to unlock it. It is not designed that way. Those four tabs are meant to be spread out from inside for unlocking and this is done with a line quick disconnect tool. I didn't have any, so I visited and bought a cheap plastic set from closest Autozone:

http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-an...?checkfit=true


Updated: At the below video I used the 5/8 inch blue tool from the Autozone set but had clipped off some part of it so that it would fit. Upon one more try later on, I found out that actually the 1/2 inch red tool from same set works perfectly fine and is the correct size to use. Once the tool is inserted good, you just pull the tube out. It needs some force but not a lot. A higher quality metal tool would probably work better and last longer, but this plastic set gets the job done especially for once or twice use.

Here is a video of it, sorry for the lousy camera work:


Last edited by PhaseP; 04-26-2016 at 09:34 PM..
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      04-26-2016, 05:20 AM   #85
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I just want to thank everyone in this thread for posting their experience with doing this job on the various models we have.

This is how we get the job done gentlemen, by working together. I'm just happy to have got the ball rolling.
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      04-26-2016, 09:41 PM   #86
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Thanks to you KirashFanatik.

By the way, your method of pulling the side tabs up and placing flat screw drivers on the other two tabs from inside to spread them apart is another way to get this tube out too. I am somewhat amazed how you figured it out under there in that tight space.

Though with the correct tool (the 1/2 inch one) it is very easy and safe to take it apart.
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      04-28-2016, 09:44 AM   #87
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Quote:
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Thanks to you KirashFanatik.

By the way, your method of pulling the side tabs up and placing flat screw drivers on the other two tabs from inside to spread them apart is another way to get this tube out too. I am somewhat amazed how you figured it out under there in that tight space.

Though with the correct tool (the 1/2 inch one) it is very easy and safe to take it apart.

Trust me it was a PITA.
I had to go back to it a third time because I was getting frustrated.

I knew there had to be a special tool but there was no place open to look for it.
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      04-29-2016, 12:03 AM   #88
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Update: After I took my car to get the rear main seal taken care of they called me back and told me my oil pan was still leaking... I had to take it home and redo the oil pan gasket.

The first time around, one of the bolts were broken off and the stem was flush with the engine. I tried and after 30 minutes was unable to get my reverse drill bit to bite. So I gave up and just put the pan on missing one bolt.

The second time I purchased a set of cobolt drill bits and a 12 inch drill extension. Trying to drill the bolt, I couldn't get the stability I wanted out of the extension bar and I was nervous about hurting the engine so I put one of the smaller bits into my dremel. I was able to get it out after drilling in a half inch and then attaching a torx bit into the drill extension and hammering in and then screwing out.

After I was able to get the oil pan in the second time I made 5 passes slowly torquing all of the bolts. I also should note that I reused the bolt set since they were only a week old. I did notice that the loctite that was pre-applied to the bolts came off as flakes after they were removed. Hopefully that won't bite me in the ass later. It toke me about 6 hours the second go round since I didn't have to stop every 10 minutes and consult this board.

I cranked the car was still leaking like crazy. It was the same spot where the oil pan meets the transmission so I called the indy shop again and arranged to get the rear main replaced. I had to wait another week and a half for them to source the tools and parts. I finally picked up my car today and finally no leak. My mechanic and also the local BMW joint both said that they've never seen a rear main seal go out like mine. They are thinking it was installation error from the factory where they didn't put adequate sealant so the seal came loose and was spinning with the flywheel and getting chewed up. The job costed $1447. It was hard to swallow but boy am I glad it's over.
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