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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Multiple drivetrain noises with multiple symptoms...6MT



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      01-11-2018, 01:02 PM   #1
Ocharlas
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Multiple drivetrain noises with multiple symptoms...6MT

I searched for a while but I'm having a harding even thinking of search terms so I figured my own words were going to be the easiest way to go about this. Car has 125k on (I believe) stock clutch/tranny/etc...

I've been having trouble shifting and it's manifesting itself in several different ways, which is making me second guess myself trying to figure out what's going on. Here's a list of what's happening:

1) There's a rattle (almost like a light grind) on idle that goes away when I press down the clutch pedal. I've seen a lot of people say throw out bearing, definitely seems the most likely candidate.

2) When I shift, there's noise and movement - not like the typical "clunk" that's there if you don't shift these cars right, but it feels like there's play somewhere in the drivetrain. If I blip the throttle in gear it makes a sound like a quick chatter, and it feels like the transmission first moves forward and then settles back in place.

3) When I'm driving and actually press the pedal to shift, there's like a "wind down" noise that feels like the car doesn't come out of gear instantly, and I can sometimes feel the transmission "drop." If I shift too quickly (especially going to 3rd) it will grind lightly.

4) When I step on the throttle, there's a momentary hesitation that feels like something's winding up (or yeah, maybe slipping), and then it catches.

5) More recently (I need to confirm this now that it isn't 10 degrees anymore), the car sounds a little different while cruising. I've noticed a couple different sounds at different times. One sounds like a continuation of problem #1 (rattle) that continues once I'm in gear and accelerating, and the other is a low hum. But the latter is only in the last day or two and the former maybe a week.

Sorry I know my descriptions suck, and since it happens when I'm driving/shifting, I can't really make a video

Over the time I've had it, I did the CDV pretty early on (before it felt like this), brake fluid, then the engine mounts (unrelated, did turbo rebuild), and more recently the transmission mounts and fluid. Since I did those last two things is when it's really gotten worse, and is getting worse faster. The cold seems to exacerbate it, but it does that for everything on cars so who knows. My first shift into second in the morning is HARD though. A little scary.


I looked underneath at the giubo/flex disc and it looks a little dry with some hairline cracks, and there's a some play/movement but I'm not sure if there is supposed to be. Part of me a) wants that to be the problem and b) thinks maybe it is because of the way it feels like the driveshaft and transmission aren't moving as a single unit. But it's so hard to tell what's going on.

Any ideas? Does it sound like anything specific? I know several things point to clutch, but some of these symptoms don't seem like that. Or did I just hit the lottery and it's like 4 things going at once?
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      01-11-2018, 01:36 PM   #2
gT-BMW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocharlas View Post
I searched for a while but I'm having a harding even thinking of search terms so I figured my own words were going to be the easiest way to go about this. Car has 125k on (I believe) stock clutch/tranny/etc...

I've been having trouble shifting and it's manifesting itself in several different ways, which is making me second guess myself trying to figure out what's going on. Here's a list of what's happening:

1) There's a rattle (almost like a light grind) on idle that goes away when I press down the clutch pedal. I've seen a lot of people say throw out bearing, definitely seems the most likely candidate.

2) When I shift, there's noise and movement - not like the typical "clunk" that's there if you don't shift these cars right, but it feels like there's play somewhere in the drivetrain. If I blip the throttle in gear it makes a sound like a quick chatter, and it feels like the transmission first moves forward and then settles back in place.

3) When I'm driving and actually press the pedal to shift, there's like a "wind down" noise that feels like the car doesn't come out of gear instantly, and I can sometimes feel the transmission "drop." If I shift too quickly (especially going to 3rd) it will grind lightly.

4) When I step on the throttle, there's a momentary hesitation that feels like something's winding up (or yeah, maybe slipping), and then it catches.

5) More recently (I need to confirm this now that it isn't 10 degrees anymore), the car sounds a little different while cruising. I've noticed a couple different sounds at different times. One sounds like a continuation of problem #1 (rattle) that continues once I'm in gear and accelerating, and the other is a low hum. But the latter is only in the last day or two and the former maybe a week.

Sorry I know my descriptions suck, and since it happens when I'm driving/shifting, I can't really make a video

Over the time I've had it, I did the CDV pretty early on (before it felt like this), brake fluid, then the engine mounts (unrelated, did turbo rebuild), and more recently the transmission mounts and fluid. Since I did those last two things is when it's really gotten worse, and is getting worse faster. The cold seems to exacerbate it, but it does that for everything on cars so who knows. My first shift into second in the morning is HARD though. A little scary.


I looked underneath at the giubo/flex disc and it looks a little dry with some hairline cracks, and there's a some play/movement but I'm not sure if there is supposed to be. Part of me a) wants that to be the problem and b) thinks maybe it is because of the way it feels like the driveshaft and transmission aren't moving as a single unit. But it's so hard to tell what's going on.

Any ideas? Does it sound like anything specific? I know several things point to clutch, but some of these symptoms don't seem like that. Or did I just hit the lottery and it's like 4 things going at once?
That sound your hearing that goes away when you step on the clutch can be either pilot bearing (on flywheel) throwout bearing or input shaft bearing (inside transmission) or all 3. Bad pilot bearing and input shaft bearing can cause shifting issues. Either way you have to remove the transmission. When removed, obviously replace the rear main seal while in there but also inspect the throwout and pilot bearing. Inspect the dual mass flywheel for play, clutch disc and pressure plate. if there both good then you know its the input shaft bearing in the transmission
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      01-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #3
slupie
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Pull off the inspection cover on the bell housing and see if there is any grease inside the bell housing. If there is then your twin mass flywheel is bad and you need to do a full clutch job.

This is what inside the bell housing looked like after my twin mass flywheel let loose.




Last edited by slupie; 01-12-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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      01-11-2018, 02:44 PM   #4
Efthreeoh
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Tough to say without being in the car, but the dual-mass flywheel could be a culprit for vibration. Throwout bearing noise is usually a rattling sound when clutch is engaged and trans in neutral (i.e. pedal not pressed in).
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      01-12-2018, 02:42 PM   #5
Ocharlas
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Ok thanks for the input guys, I'll be able to get under it this weekend and take a look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slupie View Post
This is what inside the bell housing looked like after my twin mass flywheel let loose.
Slupie can you try and repost the pics? They aren't showing up for me. Thanks

I was looking at our flywheels online a while back - they are crazy expensive! When I did the clutch on my GTI the clutch kit was $340ish and came with a flywheel. This one is more than the whole clutch kit itself!

I spent thousands rebuilding the turbos last spring, was really hoping I could squeak in an easy year of pleasant driving. Looking more and more like not...
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      01-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #6
slupie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocharlas View Post
Ok thanks for the input guys, I'll be able to get under it this weekend and take a look.



Slupie can you try and repost the pics? They aren't showing up for me. Thanks

I was looking at our flywheels online a while back - they are crazy expensive! When I did the clutch on my GTI the clutch kit was $340ish and came with a flywheel. This one is more than the whole clutch kit itself!

I spent thousands rebuilding the turbos last spring, was really hoping I could squeak in an easy year of pleasant driving. Looking more and more like not...
I don't know why the pics aren't showing up for you since they are posted from Google Photos.

I found the flywheel online for around $500 few years ago. LUK makes the flywheel for BMW so don't go to the dealer to get one. BMW dealer wanted $1100 for the flywheel. Everybody sold a re-manufactured clutch disk except BMW. With BMW CCA discount the clutch disk was cheaper from BMW dealer than anywhere else.
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