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      04-30-2017, 02:39 PM   #1
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Exclamation Help, shredding through tires! even after alignment

I am going through my 3rd set of front tires because the insides have gotten completely worn out before the rest of the tire. I ran 0 toe for a bit and quickily realized my mistake, but now i have been back to running toe in but still went through another set of front tires, so the issue is not resolved. please help! i've ran this much camber and toe in before and did not have issue so im not sure what is going on here but i can't afford to keep changing my front tires

I got my m3 control arms installed in July 2014 and have drove 40k miles on them, not sure if these bushings fail this fast?

I've gone to two reputable shops and they say my bushings and suspension is fine..

i also get a slight vibration above 80 mph so i'm not sure if that is related. two different shops have confirmed my wheels are balanced as well so




Last set of tires i went through:


Same thing happening to current set (left and right front tires):



Last edited by iturbo_bmw; 05-01-2017 at 12:15 PM.. Reason: updated pictures
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      04-30-2017, 02:58 PM   #2
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the 2.5 degrees of camber isnt helping you.
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      04-30-2017, 03:20 PM   #3
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It look like the grove on the tire was rubbing against something. Happen when you turn maybe 😬
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      04-30-2017, 03:21 PM   #4
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It's not toe that is eating your tires - it's negative camber -2.5 - that's too much
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      04-30-2017, 03:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBeard View Post
It's not toe that is eating your tires - it's negative camber -2.5 - that's too much
I've ran this much camber before and didn't have this issue though. I could reduce the camber but I don't think it's the source of my problem. There must be something else going on
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      04-30-2017, 03:36 PM   #6
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The camber's fine, I run 3.8* with zero wear even though toe is set negative. It does look like it's rubbing on something, usually inner wear shows over a wider area. How many miles on the upper strut mounts? On the struts themselves? How much play in the steering?
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      04-30-2017, 03:38 PM   #7
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Have you driven the car around the block a few times after an alignment and then had the same shop check it again? Better way to see if there's something going on with the arms and bushings, etc. And is this symmetric across both front tires?
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      04-30-2017, 04:36 PM   #8
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-2.5 camber wont do that to ur tires.

Something else isnt normal. Did you perform visual checks 9n the buahings? (Hold and apply some pressure/shake)
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      04-30-2017, 05:37 PM   #9
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The thing is if that is happening to only 1 tire then yes we could have said it's something rubbing or something is sticking out of wheel well and causing that, BUT OP said it's his both front tires - hence it can't be a coincidence that simultaneously both front have something wrong (like a loose bushing etc)

Op do you have coilovers? Is it possible you are lowered too much and in addition your M3 arms are messing up with camber much more than -2.5?
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      04-30-2017, 05:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBeard View Post
The thing is if that is happening to only 1 tire then yes we could have said it's something rubbing or something is sticking out of wheel well and causing that, BUT OP said it's his both front tires - hence it can't be a coincidence that simultaneously both front have something wrong (like a loose bushing etc)

Op do you have coilovers? Is it possible you are lowered too much and in addition your M3 arms are messing up with camber much more than -2.5?
Camber doesn't wear tires this way, especially at such a low angle of 2.5*, get a clue.
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      04-30-2017, 05:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorium View Post
It look like the grove on the tire was rubbing against something. Happen when you turn maybe 😬
hmm i dont think so, i've made no changes to the suspension in years so this wear would've shown up right away a long time ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
The camber's fine, I run 3.8* with zero wear even though toe is set negative. It does look like it's rubbing on something, usually inner wear shows over a wider area. How many miles on the upper strut mounts? On the struts themselves? How much play in the steering?
I'll try to take a more current pic, that picture i uploaded was from my last set of tires, but these are starting to wear exactly the same. the wear is on the very end of the inner tire

i had this suspension (tck coilovers and vorshlag camber plates) installed at the same time as m3 control arms - which was in July 2014 and have driver 40k on them

There is very little play if at all. just some steering wheels vibrations above 85mph


Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Have you driven the car around the block a few times after an alignment and then had the same shop check it again? Better way to see if there's something going on with the arms and bushings, etc. And is this symmetric across both front tires?
I think the shop usually does that during the alignment, but i haven't noticed any big differences in the past between alignments
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      04-30-2017, 06:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbo_bmw View Post
hmm i dont think so, i've made no changes to the suspension in years so this wear would've shown up right away a long time ago



I'll try to take a more current pic, that picture i uploaded was from my last set of tires, but these are starting to wear exactly the same. the wear is on the very end of the inner tire

i had this suspension (tck coilovers and vorshlag camber plates) installed at the same time as m3 control arms - which was in July 2014 and have driver 40k on them

There is very little play if at all. just some steering wheels vibrations above 85mph

I think the shop usually does that during the alignment, but i haven't noticed any big differences in the past between alignments
I have Vorshlag plates as well but the camber is set so far out the lip of the body had to be ground away to allow the hex nuts clearance.

The vibration at 80mph is telling, wondering if the nuts holding the plates in were overtorqued or if there is some wear that isn't obvious until you can unload the spherical joint in the plate.
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      04-30-2017, 06:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprp85 View Post
-2.5 camber wont do that to ur tires.

Something else isnt normal. Did you perform visual checks 9n the buahings? (Hold and apply some pressure/shake)
I've had the shops check the bushing and they all said they were fine. i can try to get down there and check myself, although i dont know what to look for lol. Do i just check to see if there is any play in the suspension components?
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      04-30-2017, 06:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
I have Vorshlag plates as well but the camber is set so far out the lip of the body had to be ground away to allow the hex nuts clearance.

The vibration at 80mph is telling, wondering if the nuts holding the plates in were overtorqued or if there is some wear that isn't obvious until you can unload the spherical joint in the plate.
hm i dont know that much detail about the plates. are the nuts you're talking about the ones you see from the top of the car (hood open)? what should i look for to inspect? thanks btw
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      04-30-2017, 06:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbo_bmw View Post
hm i dont know that much detail about the plates. are the nuts you're talking about the ones you see from the top of the car (hood open)? what should i look for to inspect? thanks btw
Yes, that's them. I've followed the torque spec in Bentley's but it never seems to hold. No idea if the shop used an impact driver, lightly, or some Loctite, but the last couple of times they didn't need torquing in the paddock before each run. The bolt plate isn't all that heavy duty and the body's relatively thin so it's easy to deform things, depending on which tower brace you have. Might be helpful to check to see if the camber setting is the same on both plates, look at the index markings and see if the pointer is on the same ones on both sides. Caster is set with bolt-in locations so it can't get mucked up and your caster/SAI settings are symmetrical so it's not an issue anyway.
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      04-30-2017, 07:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Camber doesn't wear tires this way, especially at such a low angle of 2.5*, get a clue.
That's why I wrote that maybe OP has much more camber than -2.5 (learn to read) and again you are missing the point here: 2 tires can't get such worn pattern simultaneously, so your suggestions about "something rubbing" don't add, should i also suggest you to get a clue?

OP one more time I'm asking you - do you have same worn pattern on your other front tire?
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      05-01-2017, 10:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbo_bmw View Post
hm i dont know that much detail about the plates. are the nuts you're talking about the ones you see from the top of the car (hood open)? what should i look for to inspect? thanks btw
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...2#post21638282

Someone with a similar problem, might want to ping feuer, should be able to help.
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      05-01-2017, 12:04 PM   #18
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Hey guys, I took pictures of the current condition of the front wheels, I had these tires put on right after the alignment that is pictured in the first post. one pic for each left and right front wheel. as you can see, the tire wear is just on inner portion of the tire only




Last edited by iturbo_bmw; 05-01-2017 at 12:15 PM..
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      05-01-2017, 12:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...2#post21638282

Someone with a similar problem, might want to ping feuer, should be able to help.
THanks, i'll pm him and see if he can help

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Yes, that's them. I've followed the torque spec in Bentley's but it never seems to hold. No idea if the shop used an impact driver, lightly, or some Loctite, but the last couple of times they didn't need torquing in the paddock before each run. The bolt plate isn't all that heavy duty and the body's relatively thin so it's easy to deform things, depending on which tower brace you have. Might be helpful to check to see if the camber setting is the same on both plates, look at the index markings and see if the pointer is on the same ones on both sides. Caster is set with bolt-in locations so it can't get mucked up and your caster/SAI settings are symmetrical so it's not an issue anyway.
hmm alright thanks man, i'll check this out tonight and report back my findings

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBeard View Post
That's why I wrote that maybe OP has much more camber than -2.5 (learn to read) and again you are missing the point here: 2 tires can't get such worn pattern simultaneously, so your suggestions about "something rubbing" don't add, should i also suggest you to get a clue?

OP one more time I'm asking you - do you have same worn pattern on your other front tire?
yes i have the same wear pattern on both sides, i just posted pictures of both current tires on my tires, the pic i uploaded before was my last set of front tires - which went through the same thing. let me know what you think and thanks!
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      05-01-2017, 01:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iturbo_bmw View Post
yes i have the same wear pattern on both sides, i just posted pictures of both current tires on my tires, the pic i uploaded before was my last set of front tires - which went through the same thing. let me know what you think and thanks!
Few questions:
-can you post photos form the camper plates?
-does you car pull when you brake?
-have you noticed increased steering effort at lower speeds?
I suspect issues with caster, either from mis-adjustment or failing suspension components. If this is adjustable on your plates go with less positive caster as more positive caster will pull toe when wheels are turning.
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      05-01-2017, 02:24 PM   #21
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I have no doubt it's a incorrect camber (negative) and toe that does that wear. Question is what component of suspension is causing excessive misalignment? Could be bushing, saggy springs, but whatever it is it has to be on both sides - that is really strange as i doubt bushings can go bad simultaneously on both sides. Something doesn't add up here

P.S. OP just to take obvious stuff out of suspicion - tires are NOT rubbing on the strut right?
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      05-01-2017, 02:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Few questions:
-can you post photos form the camper plates?
-does you car pull when you brake?
-have you noticed increased steering effort at lower speeds?
I suspect issues with caster, either from mis-adjustment or failing suspension components. If this is adjustable on your plates go with less positive caster as more positive caster will pull toe when wheels are turning.
Caster is definitely more positive than on my plates, at least for now. Dynamic camber might do it but at 7.4* vs my 7* it doesn't seem likely.
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