[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Hey guys,

Just found this log showing what happens when you run out of meth during a WOT pull using BMS' WW kit w/ the FSB failsafe. Running out of meth is obviously the most common methanol failure. FSB handled it like a champ with no hint of knock.

[Irishace]

Yep clearly that FSB is a fail........

Great work CM and BMS.

[drfrink24]

Originally Posted by Irishace

Yep clearly that FSB is a fail........

Great work CM and BMS.

Pretty funny how certain Shiv was that the FSB was all smoke and mirrors, using assumptions and out of context facts, but now that we have evidence and understanding... crickets... same with the people who were convinced his baseless assumptions were true.... crickets...

The tests that showed it detecting 3 different nozzles... crickets...

[Irishace]

Originally Posted by drfrink24

Pretty funny how certain Shiv was that the FSB was all smoke and mirrors, using assumptions and out of context facts, but now that we have evidence and understanding... crickets... same with the people who were convinced his baseless assumptions were true.... crickets...

The tests that showed it detecting 3 different nozzles... crickets...

Such is the way of the world in tuner wars I guess. Its disappointing really, the product is a great innovation which had already been applied to many other commercial applications with great success (HVAC world).

[FirstBMWLA]

I'm sure you will see the normal rebuttal that since Terry performed the log/test it must be fabricated and falsified.

[FastBimmerN54]

I have only one rebuttal and it would be for any Piggyback camp, arent we only seeing ignition from cylinder 1?

[EastBayE90]

Few questions.

Why do IAT's never drop when meth is spraying? Then when meth is no longer spraying in the 3rd pull why do IAT's not go back up? (poor atomization?)

Why did the ignition not drop at all after the meth began to stop spraying? It even looks like it is still running the same timing in the 3rd no meth pull as well.
(scary relying on the DME to react, no direct timing control)

[EastBayE90]

Crickets.....on my questions funny

[themyst]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Few questions.

Why do IAT's never drop when meth is spraying? Then when meth is no longer spraying in the 3rd pull why do IAT's not go back up? (poor atomization?)

Why did the ignition not drop at all after the meth began to stop spraying? It even looks like it is still running the same timing in the 3rd no meth pull as well.
(scary relying on the DME to react, no direct timing control)

the IATs ARE dropping, if you notice where IATs were when the run started (85 degrees +/-) and where it ends when the meth kit "failed" (65-70 degrees +/-), it is actually lower. If you have no experience with the JB4 logging software, it could be hard to read. The example presented when the meth kit "failed" lasted about three seconds, hardly enough time for IATs to creep up. It is conceivable that the meth kit got air in the lines due to the pickup location, however that does not mean there is no injection, just a possible reduction.

BTW, the log presented proves absolutely nothing. It is a log of 15 psi on meth, dropping to 13 psi when it purportedly "fails", and the runs aren't even close to redline at that. Who the hell runs a goddamn CM10 nozzle (included with the BMS meth kit) at 15 psi? Show me a 17-18 psi log to redline in each gear with the meth "failure" event. This is where the CPS module may come in handy.

Looking at your tune of choice, the Procede doesn't have "direct" timing control either. CPS offset works well IN THEORY, if the same timing curve is presented run after run, which it does not, at least not after the DME recall reflash.

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Few questions.

Why do IAT's never drop when meth is spraying? Then when meth is no longer spraying in the 3rd pull why do IAT's not go back up? (poor atomization?)

Why did the ignition not drop at all after the meth began to stop spraying? It even looks like it is still running the same timing in the 3rd no meth pull as well.
(scary relying on the DME to react, no direct timing control)

What he said.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

I have only one rebuttal and it would be for any Piggyback camp, arent we only seeing ignition from cylinder 1?

In the examples I've seen on the Cobb AP, I haven't seen any significant difference between the cylinders except for an occasional 3 degree drop at the onset of WOT. I'd love to see some logs of multiple cylinder ignition advance at high boost with advanced timing. That comes later on I suppose.

[happy4nk8er]

Originally Posted by Irishace

Such is the way of the world in tuner wars I guess. Its disappointing really, the product is a great innovation which had already been applied to many other commercial applications with great success (HVAC world).

Beg to differ, monitoring voltage/hertz on a motor is not accepted as proof of flow or actual volume of air in an HVAC system. This is why gas burner safeties require pressure drop diaphragms, anemometers, or dp arrays for this. A system like this will work 90% of the time, its the other 10% caused by system effects that are the bitch.

That graph is really hard to follow and I echo other questions asked, where is the IAT response?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by happy4nk8er

Beg to differ, monitoring voltage/hertz on a motor is not accepted as proof of flow or actual volume of air in an HVAC system. This is why gas burner safeties require pressure drop diaphragms, anemometers, or dp arrays for this. A system like this will work 90% of the time, its the other 10% caused by system effects that are the bitch.

That graph is really hard to follow and I echo other questions asked, where is the IAT response?

Look where the run starts in 2nd gear and compare to the middle of 3rd gear. A 20 degree drop is significant.

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by themyst

the IATs ARE dropping, if you notice where IATs were when the run started (85 degrees +/-) and where it ends when the meth kit "failed" (65-70 degrees +/-), it is actually lower. If you have no experience with the JB4 logging software, it could be hard to read. The example presented when the meth kit "failed" lasted about three seconds, hardly enough time for IATs to creep up. It is conceivable that the meth kit got air in the lines due to the pickup location, however that does not mean there is no injection, just a possible reduction.

BTW, the log presented proves absolutely nothing. It is a log of 15 psi on meth, dropping to 13 psi when it purportedly "fails", and the runs aren't even close to redline at that. Who the hell runs a goddamn CM10 nozzle (included with the BMS meth kit) at 15 psi? Show me a 17-18 psi log to redline in each gear with the meth "failure" event. This is where the CPS module may come in handy.

Looking at your tune of choice, the Procede doesn't have "direct" timing control either. CPS offset works well IN THEORY, if the same timing curve is presented run after run, which it does not, at least not after the DME recall reflash.

OK thank you for a response. Yea the logs are hard to tell the IAT drop but I can see it a little now that you have pointed it out. A log showing 17+ psi would be better. I just don't like seeing that much ignition after the meth stops spraying, that just looks scary. I would not want to rely on the DME to drop timing after a knock event. I prefer the timing to be pulled as the meth starts to run out. At least on my logs showing meth running out the ignition reacted instantly as meth was starting to run out.

I know the issues you have been having with the new DME software but on my car with the latest software and M/T I have had no issues so I can't complain. 37 days till what? had to ask

[themyst]

the last day of summer = the ETA for Cobb stage 2

BTW, I believe the CPS module can be used for cutting ignition if the meth fails on the JB4. Not a big deal.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by themyst

the IATs ARE dropping, if you notice where IATs were when the run started (85 degrees +/-) and where it ends when the meth kit "failed" (65-70 degrees +/-), it is actually lower. If you have no experience with the JB4 logging software, it could be hard to read. The example presented when the meth kit "failed" lasted about three seconds, hardly enough time for IATs to creep up. It is conceivable that the meth kit got air in the lines due to the pickup location, however that does not mean there is no injection, just a possible reduction.

BTW, the log presented proves absolutely nothing. It is a log of 15 psi on meth, dropping to 13 psi when it purportedly "fails", and the runs aren't even close to redline at that. Who the hell runs a goddamn CM10 nozzle (included with the BMS meth kit) at 15 psi? Show me a 17-18 psi log to redline in each gear with the meth "failure" event. This is where the CPS module may come in handy.

Looking at your tune of choice, the Procede doesn't have "direct" timing control either. CPS offset works well IN THEORY, if the same timing curve is presented run after run, which it does not, at least not after the DME recall reflash.

15.5psi is the suggested setting for a 50/50 mix on 91 octane, while 16.5psi is the suggested setting for a 50/50 mix on 93 octane. With a 80/20 mix add 1psi to that. At 5000rpm where the meth drops out it is right at peak power.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Crickets.....on my questions funny

I think you're confused. Advance staying at the DME maximum knock free advance curve while running out of meth shows the system working properly preventing knock. I don't understand what you're talking about with regard to direct timing control. Are you asking if the JB4 CPS is enabled for this run? It's set to 0/disabled as far as I know.

Air intake temperature looks normal. Not following you there but there is no better atomizing nozzle than the CM10.

Mike

[drfrink24]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Crickets.....on my questions funny

Come now... the rules are you can't call crickets until a minimum of 12 hours has elapsed. :-)

[themyst]

Mike, you kidding me? Tell that to Warren who runs 18 psi tapering to 15 psi on all sorts of mixes, including 50/50 on 91 octane.

Truth is, if the setup shows no timing dropouts the mixture is sufficient octane-wise, which many logs have proven time after time.

[Irishace]

Originally Posted by themyst

BTW, the log presented proves absolutely nothing. It is a log of 15 psi on meth, dropping to 13 psi when it purportedly "fails", and the runs aren't even close to redline at that. Who the hell runs a goddamn CM10 nozzle (included with the BMS meth kit) at 15 psi? Show me a 17-18 psi log to redline in each gear with the meth "failure" event. This is where the CPS module may come in handy.

I think this log presents and proves a lot:

1. FSB reports low/no flow and works with JB4 to cut boost (who cares if its 15psi) to base map 1 level of 13 psi

2. FSB can clearly pickup (extremely quickly) a low/no flow based on pump voltage

3. FSB working as intended

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by themyst

In the examples I've seen on the Cobb AP, I haven't seen any significant difference between the cylinders except for an occasional 3 degree drop at the onset of WOT. I'd love to see some logs of multiple cylinder ignition advance at high boost with advanced timing. That comes later on I suppose.

Do you know why Cobb stage 1 doesn't experience knock retard? Here's a hint, 4 degrees lower timing curve than stock which almost prevents it on lower octane and stg1 level of boost

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Irishace

I think this log presents and proves a lot:

1. FSB reports low/no flow and works with JB4 to cut boost (who cares if its 15psi) to base map 1 level of 13 psi

2. FSB can clearly pickup (extremely quickly) a low/no flow based on pump voltage

3. FSB working as intended

+1

Mike