[Mangler]

Bone stock, new injectors, coils, plugs, DME, air filter, carbon cleaning

ambient was around 90* with 75% humidity, elevation 800ft

no timing corrections all cylinders, STFT around 14-15 throughout, LTFT taper from 9ish to 0 by 4500rpm



T

[AU335i]

everything looks good, but the timing curve is just different than any other timing curve i've seen for a N54 with tune. It looks alot like mine when I was on v.401 though...

wonder if Cobb is going to comment on the timing curve to say it's normal for it not to advance past 3 degrees of timing.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by AU335i

everything looks good, but the timing curve is just different than any other timing curve i've seen for a N54 with tune. It looks alot like mine when I was on v.401 though...

wonder if Cobb is going to comment on the timing curve to say it's normal for it not to advance past 3 degrees of timing.

+1
It doesn't look like any timing correction happened so i would guess thats what the DME wants

[Bash]

1.5 to 2.5 degrees in timing and 14 to 12 psi at 5K +, i would rather run stock tune.
Something is def up. Plot in that log, load act vs req.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by Bash

1.5 to 2.5 degrees in timing and 14 to 12 psi at 5K +, i would rather run stock tune.
Something is def up. Plot in that log, load act vs req.

exactly why i went back to v301... something just didnt seem right so better safe than sorry

[OpenFlash]

Did you capture a post-shift timing flatline? Or does the DME always target that kind of ignition advance during normal single gear pulls?

[AU335i]

this is a log I took an hour ago on v301.

it's obvious the timing curves are different... I'll ask Cobb when I e-mail them this log... gotta ask them what that dip in TPS means.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AU335i

this is a log I took an hour ago on v301.

it's obvious the timing curves are different... I'll ask Cobb when I e-mail them this log... gotta ask them what that dip in TPS means.

I'm assuming TPS is the throttle blade position. The small closure there would be a result of momentary boost overshoot. I doubt negative/low ignition targets are intentional. Perhaps something else is causing it and it's not the norm.

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm assuming TPS is the throttle blade position. The small closure there would be a result of momentary boost overshoot. I doubt negative/low ignition targets are intentional. Perhaps something else is causing it and it's not the norm.

So does negative ignition targets indicate that the ecu was compensating for knock?

[Lulz_M3]

I noticed very low ignition targets on stage 1 Agg as well. I'll see if i can dig up a plot.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

So does negative ignition targets indicate that the ecu was compensating for knock?

It doesn't appear that the ignition curve is compensating, it just looks like it doesn't ramp up like it should.
Shiv would be better able to describe what to look for, but when i'm looking for "knock" i look for multiple cylinders pulling timing in integers of 3(I.E. 2 degress pulling to -1. The DME appears to like make corrections by an order of 3.)
When it flatlines or pulls timing slightly i think its doing so based on something besides knock that the DME doesn't like.

Like i said, Shiv(or Rob Irish/Cobb) would be much more accurate/informed than me. I'm more or less guessing based on my logs and logs from other users.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

So does negative ignition targets indicate that the ecu was compensating for knock?

A sudden 3 degree drop is indication of a knock event.

If you are running actual negative ignition (-1 -2 -3 ) then you are not running optimally for your map.

Depending on the map you should see these approx values:

2-4 Degrees in the mid-range ramping up to redline to about 10-12. With methanol you can theoretically run 10 degress + throughout the entire range ramping up to 12-14 by redline. I dont believe Cobb has a public map designated for those targets, yet. PROcede and JB4 do though.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by rader1

It doesn't appear that the ignition curve is compensating, it just looks like it doesn't ramp up like it should.
Shiv would be better able to describe what to look for, but when i'm looking for "knock" i look for multiple cylinders pulling timing in integers of 3(I.E. 2 degress pulling to -1. The DME appears to like make corrections by an order of 3.)
When it flatlines or pulls timing slightly i think its doing so based on something besides knock that the DME doesn't like.

Like i said, Shiv(or Rob Irish/Cobb) would be much more accurate/informed than me. I'm more or less guessing based on my logs and logs from other users.

oh wow, based off your description it seems my car has been knocking quite a bit since the last few runs i've logged all show a ~3 degree timing drop in multiple cylinders.

any idea on why I may be knocking? I'm running v301 Stg 1 Aggressive... everything else stock and 93 octane in the tank.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by AU335i

oh wow, based off your description it seems my car has been knocking quite a bit since the last few runs i've logged all show a ~3 degree timing drop in multiple cylinders.

any idea on why I may be knocking? I'm running v301 Stg 1 Aggressive... everything else stock and 93 octane in the tank.

It's hard to say for sure but the aggressive map may be too aggressive for the 93 you're running. Try running some octane booster or the sport map. If that helps then you may just have to stick with a less aggressive map.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by rader1

It's hard to say for sure but the aggressive map may be too aggressive for the 93 you're running. Try running some octane booster or the sport map. If that helps then you may just have to stick with a less aggressive map.

sigh... paying for 93 octane and it not being good enough to run Aggressive maps...


but you think either one will work? I'll try the octane booster first to see.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by AU335i

sigh... paying for 93 octane and it not being good enough to run Aggressive maps...


but you think either one will work? I'll try the octane booster first to see.

Its hard to say for sure, but i've seen an improvement in my old logs(which i wish i still had, damn computer) from switching brands of gas. I wasn't getting what i thought was knock, it would just flatline on occasion and 0% ethanol gas seems to have gotten rid of it. Athough, i did start running stage 2+ at the time so i can't say for sure it was the gasoline.

The V203 stage 1 maps were fairly aggressive for a 100% stock car(I haven't logged stage 1 since v203, i went straight to stage 2+) So if you have so-so gasoline, hot ambient temps and the stock FMIC then i guess it could cause knock.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by rader1

Its hard to say for sure, but i've seen an improvement in my old logs(which i wish i still had, damn computer) from switching brands of gas. I wasn't getting what i thought was knock, it would just flatline on occasion and 0% ethanol gas seems to have gotten rid of it. Athough, i did start running stage 2+ at the time so i can't say for sure it was the gasoline.

The V203 stage 1 maps were fairly aggressive for a 100% stock car(I haven't logged stage 1 since v203, i went straight to stage 2+) So if you have so-so gasoline, hot ambient temps and the stock FMIC then i guess it could cause knock.

yeah... i guess ill try the no ethanol and octane booster before going down to a lesser map.

and ambient temps were high-60's / low-70's and I do still have stock FMIC but charge temps didn't seem too rediculous...

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by AU335i

yeah... i guess ill try the no ethanol and octane booster before going down to a lesser map.

and ambient temps were high-60's / low-70's and I do still have stock FMIC but charge temps didn't seem too rediculous...

Could be the brand of gas. Or depending on mileage you may need your intake valves cleaned.

What are your intake temps?

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Could be the brand of gas. Or depending on mileage you may need your intake valves cleaned.

What are your intake temps?

I have close to 30k miles right now ...


and by intake temps do you mean charge temps(only thing I really log in regards to air temperature)? they usually never go past 140 degrees F on hot runs... the one i posted in this log didnt go past 120 i believe.

[enrita]

i would try with the same gas to log the sport version . if all is good wait till the tank is empty, fill up 93 on another pump and load up the aggressive and see how that goes. sometimes i am glad to live in a country which always provide top notch fuel everytime.

[Mangler]

What are the knock voltage thresholds for timing corrections? I have many logs where there were timing corrections <3500rpm and <1v knock voltage. Temps are in line. Straight 93.

I will try to log torque req vs actual tomorrow if the roads are dry.

T

[rader1]

Originally Posted by Mangler

What are the knock voltage thresholds for timing corrections? I have many logs where there were timing corrections <3500rpm and <1v knock voltage. Temps are in line. Straight 93.

I will try to log torque req vs actual tomorrow if the roads are dry.

T

I don't know if a set threshold has been determined for it to be considered knock. If you are getting multiple cylinders pulling timing and a knock voltage spike at the same time i would say that indicates knock.