[IancoleTX]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

While their conclusion that damage was caused by ingestion of a foreign object by turbine blade is entirely plausible, it is nearly impossible for a 'technician' to forensically conclude that fact by the condition of the turbine in those pics (and I'm sure the inside of the adjacent front housing) unless the ACTUAL foreign object was found jammed in that mess. Moreover, the claim that the 'impact point' was at the tip of that specific blade indicated by the red arrow is ludicrous.

The damage to that turbine is way to extensive to draw the conclusion that the particular area was the entry point - it is quite possible that other factors led to the interference between the turbine and the housing.


IMO, they are really stretching their conclusions as to the reason for damage and blaming cause on the fact that owner removed intake pipe and flexible coupler in order to paint, thereby introducing the foreign object - but they have their 'out' based on the written documentation supplied.

> Questions I have - is that turbine blade a cast part, or injection molded? I totally agree that the foreign object could well have been an actual tip of one of the blades that broke off due to turbing mfg. defect - hence causing the carnage. If they were any kind of a quality company, they would be able to trace back the date/run/process conditions of that particular turbine when it was mfg. in order to address that possibility.

It seems questionable that a foreign object would be capable of remaining in that smooth intact tract for any length of time without being immediately drawn into the 20,000 rpm turbine - which means the damage would have to have occurred immediately upon startup after the removal/installation of the intake tube...

In the end, how many of these failures have they seen? If this is the off chance of 1 out of 100, they should have just replaced the unit under warranty regardless as a 'good faith' gesture. If this is a re-occuring problem that they are trying to hide due to a known defect in certain turbine run - then they have become quite proficient at finding blame somewhere other than themselves.

Years ago, I had a 383 with Paxton Centrifugal SC on one of my cars. It ran great for quite some time - until one day the turbine ate itself similar to this one. Of course, I had removed the K&N filter from the intake numerous times in order to clean - but Paxton never tried to claim that it was my fault due to me leaving loose parts in the intake tract (which BTW, I didn't) - they simply replaced the part/repaired the unit under warranty no questions asked. There never was an explanation as to cause of the damage, nor did they try to pawn off the cause on me.

That there is the difference between a successful company concerned with customer satisfaction and their reputation vs. what we have here...

This is indisputable logic and needs to be addressed.

[jwjknorr]

If you paint the pipe before install, your not hurting anything... Please think before you post. Common sense is you friend.

Originally Posted by 325xi-06

but he would have to take it apart for painting. and at this point arma can't be really sure how much he is taking apart and stuff.. and if he might have left a bolt or something inside... so i am kinda with arma on this one...

[jwjknorr]

The way ARMA handled this case is the difference between me purchasing and not purchasing. I guess im going nos.

[jokers_greg]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

While their conclusion that damage was caused by ingestion of a foreign object by turbine blade is entirely plausible, it is nearly impossible for a 'technician' to forensically conclude that fact by the condition of the turbine in those pics (and I'm sure the inside of the adjacent front housing) unless the ACTUAL foreign object was found jammed in that mess. Moreover, the claim that the 'impact point' was at the tip of that specific blade indicated by the red arrow is ludicrous.

The damage to that turbine is way to extensive to draw the conclusion that the particular area was the entry point - it is quite possible that other factors led to the interference between the turbine and the housing.


IMO, they are really stretching their conclusions as to the reason for damage and blaming cause on the fact that owner removed intake pipe and flexible coupler in order to paint, thereby introducing the foreign object - but they have their 'out' based on the written documentation supplied.

> Questions I have - is that turbine blade a cast part, or injection molded? I totally agree that the foreign object could well have been an actual tip of one of the blades that broke off due to turbing mfg. defect - hence causing the carnage. If they were any kind of a quality company, they would be able to trace back the date/run/process conditions of that particular turbine when it was mfg. in order to address that possibility.

It seems questionable that a foreign object would be capable of remaining in that smooth intact tract for any length of time without being immediately drawn into the 20,000 rpm turbine - which means the damage would have to have occurred immediately upon startup after the removal/installation of the intake tube...

In the end, how many of these failures have they seen? If this is the off chance of 1 out of 100, they should have just replaced the unit under warranty regardless as a 'good faith' gesture. If this is a re-occuring problem that they are trying to hide due to a known defect in certain turbine run - then they have become quite proficient at finding blame somewhere other than themselves.

Years ago, I had a 383 with Paxton Centrifugal SC on one of my cars. It ran great for quite some time - until one day the turbine ate itself similar to this one. Of course, I had removed the K&N filter from the intake numerous times in order to clean - but Paxton never tried to claim that it was my fault due to me leaving loose parts in the intake tract (which BTW, I didn't) - they simply replaced the part/repaired the unit under warranty no questions asked. There never was an explanation as to cause of the damage, nor did they try to pawn off the cause on me.

That there is the difference between a successful company concerned with customer satisfaction and their reputation vs. what we have here...

Well said, I want to highlight the argument made about the 'impact point'. To determine that, you'd have to find the rest of the supercharger (nevermind that 60% of the blades are completely missing). I too would like to know what the forging process was for the kit, as that may give more credible evidence whether or not the failure was simply fatigue and fracture or indeed FOD.

Nevertheless, the fact that the kit had been altered does legally release ARMA of taking on reimbursement costs for the customer. But 1QuikWS6 does make a good point here too. Aftermarket companies and manufacturers rely on reputation to drive sales. Would the $7,000 (or rather the actual cost which I assume is much lower) to replace the kit really be worth all this negative publicity?

To summarize:
Do I think the damage was caused by FOD or design?

Practically impossible to tell. Neither side has really made a case that is bulletproof. Although having the car run for a period of a few months and blaming on FOD seems a little far-fetched. I don't have much experience with superchargers to be honest, but I am a mechanical engineer and the cross-sections of the broken fins from lightning's original thread appear to be of pretty poor quality.

Is ARMA responsible for reimbursement?

No. because of breach of contract (as minor as it may be)

SHOULD they reimburse the customer?

Yes, I really think it would've both helped the customer AND ARMA if they had sent another kit and called it a day. I was actually very interested in buying a kit, and was turned off by the original thread.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by jokers_greg

Is ARMA responsible for reimbursement?

No. because of breach of contract (as minor as it may be)

SHOULD they reimburse the customer?

Yes, I really think it would've both helped the customer AND ARMA if they had sent another kit and called it a day. I was actually very interested in buying a kit, and was turned off by the original thread.

In black and white, yes the user breached the contract but seriously.... This issue just highlighted how ridiculous their policy is. I understand modifying mechanical components of the unit voiding the warranty but voiding it by simply bolting and unbolting an air filter and pipe is ridiculous. Is he supposed to get written consent from Arma to unbolt something or ask one of their techs to fly over?

[jokers_greg]

Originally Posted by mapleridge

In black and white, yes the user breached the contract but seriously.... This issue just highlighted how ridiculous their policy is. I understand modifying mechanical components of the unit voiding the warranty but voiding it by simply bolting and unbolting an air filter and pipe is ridiculous. Is he supposed to get written consent from Arma to unbolt something or ask one of their techs to fly over?

Unfortunately that is the nature of contracts, even the slightest breach can nullify them. However, I do agree with you that it wasn't a big deal what he did. Like I said, I would've reimbursed based on good faith and as a marketing tool to boost the image of my business.

[t1mmy]

IMO, I don't really care if they honor the warranty or not since it was breached.

The damage to ARMA's reputation here is that their product failed, and its up to the users on this board to review the reports and conclude that it failed because it was their product and not lightning's mod.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by jokers_greg

Unfortunately that is the nature of contracts, even the slightest breach can nullify them. However, I do agree with you that it wasn't a big deal what he did. Like I said, I would've reimbursed based on good faith and as a marketing tool to boost the image of my business.

Originally Posted by t1mmy

IMO, I don't really care if they honor the warranty or not since it was breached.

The damage to ARMA's reputation here is that their product failed, and its up to the users on this board to review the reports and conclude that it failed because it was their product and not lightning's mod.

I agree with both of you about the breach but, to me that is the most phony warranty ever.

[quattrosaint]

I thought about buying there BBK until I read about there turbine failure and how it was handled. Now seeing this post by ARMA lets me know I made the right decision not to buy it.

[mapleridge]

Originally Posted by quattrosaint

I thought about buying there BBK until I read about there turbine failure and how it was handled. Now seeing this post by ARMA lets me know I made the right decision not to buy it.

I wanted to get this kit too. It was on my "to buy" list. The claims of outdated technology, poor manufacturing and clearly poor customer service put it on my "to forget" list.

[speedfan]

Dear ARMA,

I have been looking for some options to increase my car's power to back up its look.

I got the SuperSprint headers for my Euro 2.5L engine 325. But quickly sold them because I couldnt bare the loudness from the headers. (look here http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591913)

I was looking at the 3-stage intake manifold conversion, but then realized that my car's equipped with a 3-stage intake manifold from the the factory already. & its 2.5L engine cant be opened up with a tune to match the 330i's power output.
(http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591911)

My only option left at 1 point was putting your supercharger into my car AND since you're not too far from where i am (vietnam), I was really considering the ARMA supercharger kit & about to pull the trigger.

Reading this thread & lightning's, knowing your integrity & poor customer service, I have to say that I sincerely thank you for saving me AT LEAST $8k.

Dung.

[C ///M]

Well, I understand everything that has been said, but I don't want to get into those discussions. I guess my one question would be to Arma. Instead of spending the money to fly out a technician, why not use that cost to replace the damaged turbine and more. I mean, flight/travel/accommodation costs + the cost of a technician's time...I mean seriously, they probably could have sent a bunch or replacement parts, maybe even all of them and the. EVERYONE would be happier and better off.

Sorry, no matter the situation, I don't like how they do business so I will not support the company by buying their products.

[ska///235i]

lol what kind of bullshit is this

company fail at its finest

[TSM330i]

Everything that's going on with ARMA is just commical!

Think about what we're talking about here. We know of what, two people who have installed this supercharger system. One of them has a catastrophic failure and ARMA is "not at fault."

How many ESS or VF Engineering Superchargers are out there? I know VAC alone has sold 15 VF620 kits in the last two weeks of 2011. (see post #139).
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=593996&page=4

Do you see a single thread running on these boards that even remotely resembles the circus that's going on with ARMA?

I would NEVER put an ARMA supercharger on my car.

As for those who are interested in the ARMA brake kit - you're crazy!
If you engine fails, you pull over the get towed. If your brakes fail - you crash! The LAST thing you want to do is cheap out on brakes.
I have Stoptech BBK and love them. Do yourself a favor and buy a brake kit from a reputable manufacturer.

[speedfan]

Originally Posted by AW325xi

Everything that's going on with ARMA is just commical!

Think about what we're talking about here. We know of what, two people who have installed this supercharger system. One of them has a catastrophic failure and ARMA is "not at fault."

How many ESS or VF Engineering Superchargers are out there? I know VAC alone has sold 15 VF620 kits in the last two weeks of 2011. (see post #139).
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=593996&page=4

Do you see a single thread running on these boards that even remotely resembles the circus that's going on with ARMA?

I would NEVER put an ARMA supercharger on my car.

As for those who are interested in the ARMA brake kit - you're crazy!
If you engine fails, you pull over the get towed. If your brakes fail - you crash! The LAST thing you want to do is cheap out on brakes.
I have Stoptech BBK and love them. Do yourself a favor and buy a brake kit from a reputable manufacturer.

I'm with you on every point you've made!

[darkrom]

So they come here to post some carefully written shit and then leave without addressing anything else. I am set on this kit. I've seen companies like this. Sounds like a fucking TERRIBLE decision to purchase this kit going forward.

[scedbimmertoy]

My Fellow Americans,
I have just approved the sale under the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 to retrofit 145 of Taiwan’s F-16 A/B fighter jets. BTW, we get to buy 100 units of the post WWII design superchargers from ARMA.