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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Released* Dinan 335i Software



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      12-10-2007, 02:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335 View Post
I stand corrected! I do remember that now!

1hour... 66posts.... This is going to be an interesting thread!
Yeah - I found the article too... if anyone's intersted.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...sed/index.html


http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/b...etter-results/
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      12-10-2007, 02:32 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post
How many people down the line will buy a used 335 if they new it had 20 different piggy back maps on it.I wouldnt want one.I could live with knowing a car had a dinan flash tho.
Ummmm.....they wont know
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      12-10-2007, 02:34 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by markymarc1981 View Post
Dinan is the way to go hands down. I completely trust their products and they have the most experience with BMW's. All the other guys are new when it comes to BMW. Just protecting my investment
On the contrary you're hurting your investment. There is no opportunity for resale as there is with a piggyback unit
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      12-10-2007, 02:36 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh4852 View Post
Ummmm.....they wont know
exactly the same reason people would just pick up cpoed cars with a dinan flash.Having the though of my car being a beta tester would drive me nuts.
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      12-10-2007, 02:37 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
I'm on board with this. I dropped 70k for 300 hp, not gonna cry about 2k for another 80 hp, way to go Dinan.
70k for what car?
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      12-10-2007, 02:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
btw -- I'm not the only one who is questioning their dyno numbers.
Does it matter what their stock number is? Isn't it the difference that counts? The peak numbers they are quoting is just marketing. The difference between the base stock run and the flashed run is what matter (provided it was done on the same dyno on a similar day).
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      12-10-2007, 02:38 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post
exactly the same reason people would just pick up cpoed cars with a dinan flash.Having the though of my car being a beta tester would drive me nuts.

Your not making sense.... If you had two cpo cars and one had the dinan flash and one was stock why would you pick the one that was obviously modded? (unless you want that mod)

The point is with a piggyback, once it is removed, it is a stock car again with no record of being modded. And we wouldn't know which one has had a piggyback and which one hasn't.
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      12-10-2007, 02:38 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
70k for what car?
That is how much an e92 335 costs in Canada after taxes.
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      12-10-2007, 02:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revah2 View Post
On the contrary your hurting your investment. There is no opportunity for resale as there is with a piggyback unit
when I brought in my m3 to trade it for a 335 I asked them if my mods would help the value,I told them I spent over 10k in my car.The guy told me only if they are dinan parts and Im better off selling the parts or car on my own.

He told me that the dinan parts would of gave me a way higher trade in value.

My dealer and dinan are close. They have parts all over the show room in theres and catalogs everywhere,They were even throwing on shortshift kits on brand new cars and adding it as an upgrade in the discription.
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      12-10-2007, 02:40 PM   #76
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Poll with Procede is up...

Sorry for the mistake

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100648
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      12-10-2007, 02:40 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benyl View Post
That is how much an e92 335 costs in Canada after taxes.
a 335i starts at 53 thousand canadian dollars. Not to mention the Canadian dollar is a bit stronger than the American dollar now, so I feel REALLY bad for folks up in Canada. My friend pays 500 a month for a mazda three...
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      12-10-2007, 02:41 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benyl View Post
That is how much an e92 335 costs in Canada after taxes.
My bad, I thought his location said Mississippi. Got it.
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      12-10-2007, 02:41 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by revah2 View Post
My friend pays 500 a month for a mazda three...
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      12-10-2007, 02:43 PM   #80
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Steve is gone forever....that didn't take much. I hope he does return though because I want to see the answers to a few of the questions. It is my firm belief however that Dinan missed the boat as far as seeling to this particular forum is concerned. There are so many options that people have already committed to. My 2c.
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      12-10-2007, 02:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benyl View Post
Does it matter what their stock number is? Isn't it the difference that counts? The peak numbers they are quoting is just marketing. The difference between the base stock run and the flashed run is what matter (provided it was done on the same dyno on a similar day).
Of course it makes a difference when they're claiming 342WHP @ 5,600rpm with the Dinan ECU Flash (+46WHP)...that kind of WHP puts it ABOVE PROcede v1.47 (near PROcede v2 actually), but again their 335i supposedly dyno'd at 296WHP stock (which is unheard of around here for the past 15 months, since the 335i was released).


5600 stock WHP - 296 332 Dinan WHP - 342 383 52 311 360 48 1.121 7.8 11.4
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      12-10-2007, 02:43 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh4852 View Post
Your not making sense.... If you had two cpo cars and one had the dinan flash and one was stock why would you pick the one that was obviously modded? (unless you want that mod)

The point is with a piggyback, once it is removed, it is a stock car again with no record of being modded. And we wouldn't know which one has had a piggyback and which one hasn't.
Im talking about us enth.If there were 2 cars and one had the dinan flash,I would go for it and get the extended BMW warenty for 100k its like 4k but worth every peny.Some dealers are differnt tho and wont give a cpo dinan car an extended warenty.

The thought about not knowing is why I would just get the dinan flashed car,at least that way everything is logged with the cars vin and you know what your buying.
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      12-10-2007, 02:46 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post
Im talking about us enth.If there were 2 cars and one had the dinan flash,I would go for it and get the extended BMW warenty for 100k its like 4k but worth every peny.Some dealers are differnt tho and wont give a cpo dinan car an extended warenty.
I don't think the extended warranty is available if you have the dinan tune....that is what everyone has been saying so far though (people who have asked the dealers)

So, its back to the fact that the piggyback is untraceable and you can still have your extended warranty....
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      12-10-2007, 02:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Of course it makes a difference when they're claiming 342WHP @ 5,600rpm with the Dinan ECU Flash (+46WHP)...that kind of WHP puts it ABOVE PROcede v1.47 (near PROcede v2 actually), but again with a 335i that supposedly dyno'd at 296WHP stock (which is unheard of around here for the past 15 months, since the 335i was released).


5600 stock WHP - 296 332 Dinan WHP - 342 383 52 311 360 48 1.121 7.8 11.4
Different Dyno different day. As long as they posted stock numbers ( 296whp or however high they may be) next to their flash numbers the credibility of the gain over stock numbers is there. But i will agree, it is oddly high numbers
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      12-10-2007, 02:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh4852 View Post
I don't think the extended warranty is available if you have the dinan tune....that is what everyone has been saying so far though (people who have asked the dealers)

So, its back to the fact that the piggyback is untraceable and you can still have your extended warranty....
+1000
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      12-10-2007, 02:49 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Of course it makes a difference when they're claiming 342WHP @ 5,600rpm with the Dinan ECU Flash (+46WHP)...that kind of WHP puts it ABOVE PROcede v1.47 (near PROcede v2 actually), but again with a 335i that supposedly dyno'd at 296WHP stock (which is unheard of around here for the past 15 months, since the 335i was released).


5600 stock WHP - 296 332 Dinan WHP - 342 383 52 311 360 48 1.121 7.8 11.4
Roll back a second.

Dinan is claiming +46 WHP.

So, if on the Mustang dyno, you get say, 260 WHP. With Dinan, you should get 306 WHP on the same dyno, no?

Horsepower is horsepower on any dyno, is it not?

Horsepower claims are just marketing. Seeing the difference between the baseline (stock) and the end result is what matters.
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      12-10-2007, 02:51 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan@dinan View Post
Good morning, here is some awesome Monday news from Dinan:

Available now at all 150 Dinan dealers.

Dinan, the leader in BMW tuning is now introducing the long awaited BMW 335i Dinan Performance Engine Software. After 29 years of engineering quality Dinan continues to introduce products that are researched, developed and fully tested to meet and exceed the quality and reliability standards of the BMW factory. This new software continues this tradition and is available December 2007.

Design

The revolutionary Dinan Performance Engine Software increases boost from 8.8psi to 13.2psi with properly retuned fuel mixtures, ignition timing and full map rescaling. All of these dimensions in the software lead to an enhanced car that behaves like stock and operates as reliable as OEM.

Dinan’s software engineering team’s ground-breaking design requires no “piggybacking” or adding “secret” boxes to add onto the ECU. The beauty of Dinan’s design that’s tuned with the proper software tools and not by intercepting and faking signals back into the ECU. The Dinan Performance Engine Software is the only software that addresses all the key areas important to engine performance and safety. Unlike other units currently on the market, the Dinan Performance Engine Software does not compromise reliability. It works in conjunction with the engine management system while preserving all the engine safety monitors.

To top this all off, the ECU for the car does not need to be taken out to load the software. There is no need to take out the ECU and create downtime for customers who want this software. It is completely “plug and play”, go to any Authorized Dinan Dealer and they will upload the software through the OBDII port. Simple, the way it should be.

Performance

The Dinan Performance Engine Software increases the boost from 8.8psi to 13.2psi which increases power to 384 hp and 421 lb/ft torque. This is an increase of 52hp and 96 lb/ft of torque. When a Dinan exhaust (rear mufflers and middle exhaust wit X-pipe) are added the output increases to 392hp and 429 lb/ft torque. This is an increase of 62hp and 103 lb/ft of torque. The top speed governor has also been removed to allow the car to reach its full potential.

The drivability stays close to stock as much as possible, although the Dinan Performance Engine Software does give out 50% more boost during the same time frame compared to a stock 335i, enhancing the aggressiveness on the spool up. This creates a driving feel that is unequalled in smooth, rapid power delivery with massive midrange torque.

To even further the performance of the software and preserve engine reliability, Dinan reprograms the electronically controlled water pump to increase flow during high boost usage. In addition Dinan also offers an optional oil cooler. Twice the size of the stock oil cooler, the Dinan unit allows the better heat transfer and flow through the cooler than stock, keeping the engine and turbo’s well within temperature limits with the increase in boost. Dinan has a huge selection of compatible products that will work to compliment the software with more coming out soon.

Warranty

Dinan is the only tuner on the BMW market that has a 4 year/ 50k mile factory matching warranty including consequential damages. If your car does not come with an oil cooler, one is required with the Dinan software to maintain warranty coverage. If you have the factory small oil cooler, Dinan still strongly recommends the larger oil cooler upgrade.




Price

Software cost is $2,000.00, The oil cooler cost is $2,000.00 as well.


The Dinan Way

Dinan has taken the time to comprehensively research what is necessary to do tuning the way the factory would. The Dinan Engine Performance Software is an example of this. There are many different areas other than power that Dinan has addressed to ensure reliability and longevity of your vehicle. Here is just a small list of some of the concerns that were found with the vehicle during research and development.

- At high loads for extended periods of time the oil and water temperature ran much to warm. If these were to be left unchecked it could result in damage to the pistons and cylinder walls. To fix this Dinan remapped the water pump and increased the oil cooler size to keep temperatures under control.

- At higher boost settings in the higher RPM range the turbo exceeded the design RPM limit, shortening the lifespan of the turbo. Dinan addressed this problem by tapering boost gradually at high RPM. Future plans include adding larger turbo’s that can handle higher boost pressures at high RPM’s without compromising the durability of the turbo.

- At high boost, the compressor air temperature would exceed the intercoolers ability to cool the intake charge resulting in loss of power and compromising the long term durability of the engine. Dinan addressed this problem by tapering boost gradually at high RPM. Future plans include adding larger turbo’s and a more efficient intercooler so we can increase boost at high RPM’s without compromising the engine’s durability as well as dramatic additional increases in power.

- The engine block on the 335i may not be torsionally rigid enough to handle the torque load on the engine causing premature crankshaft failures. Studies are currently going on to find the weak point in the block and may include block modifications to make the block more rigid for the future higher power applications.

- We believe with proper research it is possible to increase HP to well in excess of 400 hp and torque to over 450 lb/ft!! This of course with great reliability.

Dinan is not always the first on the market with a product, but we are always the best when it comes to the quality of the product. Engineering takes time and research and to do it right means not to rush to the market with a product that has not been fully evaluated on every side. Dinan’s products will reward you with years of driving fun without the worry associated with other aftermarket products available on the market today.















STOCK STOCK DINAN DINAN GAIN STOCK DINAN GAIN Drive Train STOCK DINAN
RPM RWHP FWHP RWHP FWHP HP FW TRQ FW TRQ TRQ loss factor BOOST BOOST
2500 146 158 173 188 29 333 394 62 1.085 7 8
3000 174 190 209 228 38 332 399 67 1.090 7.3 10
3300 191 209 233 255 46 332 405 73 1.093 8 11.5
3500 197 217 244 268 52 325 403 78 1.100 8.3 12.5
3700 208 229 260 287 57 325 407 81 1.102 8.2 13
4000 219 242 285 315 73 318 413 96 1.105 8.2 13
4300 240 266 311 345 79 325 421 96 1.108 8.8 13.2
4500 248 275 312 346 71 321 404 83 1.110 8.8 13.2
5000 279 311 336 375 64 327 394 67 1.115 8.3 12.5
5500 295 330 337 377 47 316 360 45 1.120 8 11.5
5600 296 332 342 383 52 311 360 48 1.121 7.8 11.4
5700 293 329 342 384 55 303 354 51 1.122 7.6 11.3
6000 293 330 332 374 44 289 327 38 1.125 6.9 11
6500 282 319 313 354 35 257 286 28 1.130 5.9 9.5
7000 259 294 269 305 11 221 229 9 1.135 5.3 7.5
PSI PSI

2008 E90-92 335 SOFTWARE
85MPH COOLING FAN FOR RADIATOR AND INTERCOOLER
Dynopack
93 Octane

Figure 1. Dyno results for a stock 335i vs Dinan 335i (software tuning only)

RWHP – Rear Wheel Horsepower
FWHP- Flywheel Horsepower
FWTRQ- Flywheel Torque
RWTRQ- Rear Wheel Torque
Drivetrain Loss factor – Calculated from the differences in power from the engine dyno and the Dynopack dyno.


Dinan brings real world results

Above (Figure 1) shows the results from the dyno test at Dinan headquarters. The chart shows the stock RWHP and the FWHP versus the Dinan RWHP and FWHP. The max hp gain from the Dinan 335i is 79FWHP @ 4300RPM and the max hp from the Dinan 335i is 383FWHP @ 5600RPM with 11.4 psi of boost. The maximum torque is 421 lb/ft @ 4300 rpm that is a gain of 96ft/lbs over stock with 13.2 psi of boost.

Below (Figure 2) shows the results for the Dinan 335i with the software package and race only X pipe and exhaust. Peak power is increased to 392FWHP @ 5600 RPM with 11.5psi of boost and peak torque is up to 429ft/lb @ 4000RPM with 13psi of boost.

The percentage of drivetrain loss has been a talking point among tuners and the numbers have been fluctuating from 10% to over 17%. What most tuners do not know is that drivetrain loss is not a constant factor; it is determined by the frictional losses throughout the engine and drivetrain which differs throughout the entire rev range. As the car goes faster (MPH goes up on the speedo) the gears, bearings and seals are moving at a higher speed and friction increases Dinan has an in house engine and chassis dyno., with these two tools they have been able to log the drivetrain loss to an accuracy of 1%. The dyno HP and TRQ numbers are the closest to real world conditions as you can find.





RPM STOCK STOCK DINAN DINAN GAIN STOCK DINAN GAIN Drive Train STOCK DINAN
2500 RWHP FWHP RWHP FWHP HP FW TRQ FW TRQ TRQ loss factor BOOST BOOST
3000 146 158 181 196 38 333 413 80 1.085 7 8
3300 174 190 218 238 48 332 416 84 1.090 7.3 10
3500 191 209 241 263 55 332 419 87 1.093 8 11.5
3700 197 217 257 283 66 325 424 99 1.100 8.3 12.5
4000 208 229 274 302 73 325 429 103 1.102 8.2 13
4300 219 242 288 318 76 318 418 100 1.105 8.2 13
4500 240 266 312 346 80 325 422 97 1.108 8.8 13.2
5000 248 275 317 352 77 321 411 89 1.110 8.8 13.2
5500 279 311 336 375 64 327 394 67 1.115 8.3 12.5
5600 295 330 350 392 62 316 374 59 1.120 8 11.5
5700 296 332 348 390 58 311 366 55 1.121 7.8 11.4
6000 293 329 346 388 59 303 358 55 1.122 7.6 11.3
6500 293 330 338 380 51 289 333 44 1.125 6.9 11
7000 282 319 323 365 46 257 295 37 1.130 6 9.5
259 294 281 319 25 221 239 19 1.135 5.3 7.5
PSI PSI

X Pipe
Exh
85MPH COOLING FAN FOR RADIATOR AND INTERCOOLER
D Dynopack
93 Octane
2nd Stage CC taken out


Figure 2. Dyno results for a stock 335i versus the Dinan 335i (software, x pipe and exhaust)

Please post stock numbers and ecu flash numbers from the same dyno and car
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      12-10-2007, 02:53 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thw420 View Post
"You are saying the car made 275whp wheels and estimate 350hp at the crank, you are talking rubbish. If that is the case a 75hp engine in this car wont move at all because all the power is loss. Loss at the wheels is a constant hp not in % figure. Also following your theory if you were to boost up this car to 1000hp the loss is about 200~250hp. again, rubbish!"

Lol, owned.
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