E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > Australia > Australia Classifieds Section > WTB H8 Angel Eyes



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-17-2014, 04:52 AM   #1
JB4-335
Brigadier General
Australia
167
Rep
3,093
Posts

Drives: E92 BSM & E70 AW
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia

iTrader: (1)

WTB H8 Angel Eyes

Hey guys looking for a decent pair of angel eyes with white rings. New or second hand. PM me if you have a spare set.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2014, 07:26 PM   #2
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
I am thinking of doing a group buy down the track when I get time to do the research. Product will probably be high quality CREE LED at considerable savings. If you can wait I will let you know.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2014, 06:00 AM   #3
sc1on
New Member
0
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 335i DCT M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liteonled
I am thinking of doing a group buy down the track when I get time to do the research. Product will probably be high quality CREE LED at considerable savings. If you can wait I will let you know.
^in for that
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2014, 07:39 PM   #4
nosmash
Private
6
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: an oil burner
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: australia

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liteonled View Post
I am thinking of doing a group buy down the track when I get time to do the research. Product will probably be high quality CREE LED at considerable savings. If you can wait I will let you know.
Interested as well.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2014, 03:38 AM   #5
CYL
Major
129
Rep
1,382
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

What's the difference between CREE and normal LED?
I have bought one from BMR, but if CREE is better, I am in too. BMR one is good but it is too dull.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2014, 05:47 AM   #6
ady9
Private First Class
Australia
8
Rep
102
Posts

Drives: 335i E92
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

Keen as well
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2014, 07:20 AM   #7
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by CYL View Post
What's the difference between CREE and normal LED?
I have bought one from BMR, but if CREE is better, I am in too. BMR one is good but it is too dull.
CREE is a US company and one of the leading manufacturers of LEDs for lighting. Their LEDs are consistently brighter and more efficient than their competitors. You can google CREE XT-E for example. What it means is that for a given wattage/power you will consistently get a brighter light (more lumens/watt) with CREE LEDs. I know you can buy automotive head lights which use CREE LEDs, but I am yet to do the research.

Needless to say CREE LEDs are backed by US published test data and they consistently perform at a very high level and product a high quality light.

So a lot of normal LEDs either lack the test data or as you say are very dull as their light output (lumens) per watt is very low, but the "normal LEDs" are often very cheap, not to say they are necessarily bad, just that they are not as bright or efficient. Epistar (Taiwanese) or Hongli Tronic or Chemie or Cotrun (Chinese) are examples.

The other important issue is construction as the LED needs to stay cool to maintain its life which is why it should have a relatively large heat sink. If it runs too hot the light output will also decrease.

Think of Nikon, they only make cameras and very good ones.

Cree is the same, they only make LEDs for lighting.
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2014, 11:37 PM   #8
CYL
Major
129
Rep
1,382
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Thanks litonled!!!
i am really keen in this, please let me know if you are buying the cree led.
Thanks in advanced.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2014, 12:49 AM   #9
7smurfs
Captain
7smurfs's Avatar
Australia
137
Rep
902
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

Keen on Cree LEDs pending price.

I have many of their LED flashlights and can attest to their quality
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2014, 04:29 AM   #10
Scotty89
Buy a 335 they said... It'll be fun they said...
Scotty89's Avatar
Australia
117
Rep
995
Posts

Drives: 2007 E92 335i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [10.00]
I'm down for a decent group buy.

Must be good quality or I'm not up for paying a good price.

I've paid $100 for LED's on the e46 and they've died too many times.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2014, 08:01 PM   #11
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Ok this is some serious traction.. I will have a hunt around & maybe test a few samples. An expensive exercise but always best to try before you buy

I can report back with heat sink & LED case temp, photos, colour temperature and lux (light) level which is most important.

Not sure if you guys also know about colour temperature in Kelvin. In general, warmer colours produce less light than whiter/cooler colours and within each LED type and colour temperature there is usually at least 3 different levels of brightness depending on the BIN # so it is good to know exactly what you are getting and be able to read the data sheet.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2014, 09:29 PM   #12
sc1on
New Member
0
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 335i DCT M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liteonled View Post
Ok this is some serious traction.. I will have a hunt around & maybe test a few samples. An expensive exercise but always best to try before you buy

I can report back with heat sink & LED case temp, photos, colour temperature and lux (light) level which is most important.

Not sure if you guys also know about colour temperature in Kelvin. In general, warmer colours produce less light than whiter/cooler colours and within each LED type and colour temperature there is usually at least 3 different levels of brightness depending on the BIN # so it is good to know exactly what you are getting and be able to read the data sheet.
Nice - awesome initiative mate.

Keen for photos, especially in daylight. This is where most current aftermarket options available have let me down and left me hanging on to my yellow OEM angels.

I know we'll never be at LCI level in terms of brightness, but would be nice to have something at least as bright/visible as the stock yellows.
Appreciate 0
      07-23-2014, 09:38 PM   #13
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
I am sure we can get something bright enough...

even if we have to design ourselves.. maybe even use larger LED like CREE MT-G2
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 12:31 AM   #14
CYL
Major
129
Rep
1,382
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

liteonled, are you going to build the light on your own???
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 12:53 AM   #15
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
It is possible to have LED lights designed and built to specification but I now think it will not be necessary. I have already found CREE MT-G2 LED Angel Eyes which would probably be my first choice for brightness. CREE XM-L2 is another good option but is a smaller LED so may not be as bright unless there are 4 x XM-L2s vs 2 x MT-G2s, I will check and compare. The other issue is we will need to make sure they run cool enough as brighter Angel Eyes means running the LEDs at higher power which means more heat so cooling will be crucial otherwise the LEDs will not last long. This means using larger passive cooling finned heatsinks or active cooling devices like the fan on your CPU. Anyway, I can check all of this for us and make sure the LEDs are running within manufacture specified operating temps. If so, they should be able to last longer than the car and you will never have to replace a light bulb again.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 01:22 AM   #16
sc1on
New Member
0
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 335i DCT M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

I'm feeling some kind of angel eye revolution right here.

This aftermarket niche needs a proper shakeup. Really keen to see how this all goes.

We believe in you don! You got this.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 10:27 PM   #17
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Ok just to update, lots of options out there and we will definitely be able to get something really really bright.. most likely with an active cooling system like on your CPU. Some of you may have discovered the adjustable colour temperature Angel Upgrade systems but these will have 20-25% less brightness as they require use of an RGBW LED which is not as bright as a normal White LED so my preference is to pick a single colour temperature (white) and go with it. Though it may be possible to specify a custom colour temperature at additional cost. The adjustable types also don't have an active cooling fan so I would be concerned about life span if you have them switched on all the time.

For those people without HIDs (normal halogens) we can also get H7 LED headlights as well as the H11 foglights with similar or greater brightness including active cooling system. I assume all of our foglights are normal halogens not HIDs? Those with HID Xenon driving lights I see no advantage replacing.

Passive cooling systems with large heat sinks are ideal for LEDs but due to the enclosed and smaller space constraints of a headlight and the higher power required to make sufficient brightness the largest permissible heat sink is required with active cooling fan. These are similar to the ones on your CPU and as you know run for years without fail so should be OK. I will try to look into details about what sort of fans they are using so we can ensure we are getting quality componentry. I suspect the engine bay around the head lamps also gets a little hot as well so probably worth measuring the temp in situ and may be a reason why the Angel Eye LEDs are not lasting or why they are now including active cooling systems.

PM or reply for interest for the H7 LED headlights as well as the H11 foglights.
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2014, 02:08 AM   #18
Scotty89
Buy a 335 they said... It'll be fun they said...
Scotty89's Avatar
Australia
117
Rep
995
Posts

Drives: 2007 E92 335i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by liteonled View Post
Not sure if you guys also know about colour temperature in Kelvin. In general, warmer colours produce less light than whiter/cooler colours and within each LED type and colour temperature there is usually at least 3 different levels of brightness depending on the BIN # so it is good to know exactly what you are getting and be able to read the data sheet.
True, but anyone with sense will use their headlights for lighting up the road.

Relying on Angel eyes (which are daytime running lamps) for "brightness" is akin to buying a food blender to serve as a bottle opener.

Anything 4300 - 6000k will match the HID's and provide satisfaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liteonled View Post
Passive cooling systems with large heat sinks are ideal for LEDs but due to the enclosed and smaller space constraints of a headlight and the higher power required to make sufficient brightness the largest permissible heat sink is required with active cooling fan. These are similar to the ones on your CPU and as you know run for years without fail so should be OK. I will try to look into details about what sort of fans they are using so we can ensure we are getting quality componentry. I suspect the engine bay around the head lamps also gets a little hot as well so probably worth measuring the temp in situ and may be a reason why the Angel Eye LEDs are not lasting or why they are now including active cooling systems.

PM or reply for interest for the H7 LED headlights as well as the H11 foglights.
Moving parts/fans for cooling inside your head lamps is a bad idea. The equivalent in a desktop PC sits on a desk for 10 years, without any vibration or road noise, weather or otherwise adverse conditions. A small fan to cool a "LED" globe is tacking on an unreliable component to a design that boasts its greatest benefit as "reliability". Does not make any sense at all.

Also, putting HID in foglights is illegal in Australia as every HID headlamp system needs to be fitted with an auto-leveling system + headlamp washer system, as per Australian Design Regulations.
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2014, 02:09 AM   #19
CYL
Major
129
Rep
1,382
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

saw this brand Dtec..40 watt

http://www.e92-lighting.com/bmw-ange...l-eyes-v5-40w/

they even have 100 watt....i wonder if these high wattage led will melt the light housing??
Anyone got idea?
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2014, 02:11 AM   #20
CYL
Major
129
Rep
1,382
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

FYI

100 watt...

http://www.e92-lighting.com/bmw-ange...yes-v9.5-100w/
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2014, 08:53 AM   #21
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by CYL View Post
Those little LEDs look to be about 2.5mm square which means they are probably CREE XB-D given they specify CREE on the site. This is a relatively recent budget CREE LED which runs at about 4W max but good efficiency at 6000K (cool white). There looks to be 8 of them per lamp so that is maybe 32W each or 64W for the pair. They might be 40W each pushing it.

100W is theoretically impossible. Maybe they mean equivalent to 100W halogen?

Even at 32W each they are going to be running very hot with that little biddy heatsink and no fan (see my comments and caveat below).

In residential applications when 4 or 5 CREE XB-D LEDs are used in a lamp or other LEDs of similar size the total max power would typically be up to 10 to 15W and the heat sink would be up to twice the size with triple the surface area for lower power and of course much lower ambient temperatures than under the bonnet.

I'd be worried about longevity if you are driving long hours and sitting in traffic a lot. If not, at say an average of 2 hours driving per day you might still get a 500-1,000 days of life, instead of the potential 10,000 days. So it can just be a matter of principal and engineering something that is light for life or an "angel eye revolution".

Nevertheless, 8 x CREE XB-Ds running at 4W each is going to put out around 3000-3200 chip lumens @ 85°C (hotter temps will reduce lumens) which is still alot of light and I suspect up there with the brightest on the market.

Would be good to test some in the lab if anyone has them.

don
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2014, 08:54 AM   #22
donR
Captain
donR's Avatar
Australia
97
Rep
809
Posts

Drives: E91 335i, B5 RS4, F31 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty89 View Post
...Moving parts/fans for cooling inside your head lamps is a bad idea... putting HID in foglights is illegal in Australia as ...
Thanks. Some good points made.

However, a brushless DC Axial fan is a very reliable piece of machinery. Their electronics is very simple and really have only one moving part and have literally billions of applications including where vibration and adverse conditions are present. In brushless motors it is largely the bearings that are susceptible to vibration but with such a small mass and small load (air) these tiny motors really aren't bothered by movement or vibration. You also need to look at the life of such a motor/fan which is between 10,000 to 20,000 hours. Though dust and lint can cause premature failure if the motor starts to strain and this could be a problem in some environments.

However, some automotive LED lighting systems have a thermal overload protection which will ramp down the LED to 20% power if the fans fail and it becomes too hot. Not difficult technology to incorporate and of course the fans are replaceable.

If you want your high power car LED lights to last I suspect the addition of a fan is a must. Under the bonnet you are looking at a temperature range of 50 to 100˚C in the cooler areas depending on speed. Probably higher in a turbo charged car. I will measure it before this project is done.

The operating temperature (case temp) of a LED maxes out at 105˚C at 25˚C ambient temperature but will normally operate at around 60-80˚C depending on the level it is driven. It can run marginally hotter but with an under bonnet temp of say 75˚C or +50˚C or greater above test conditions you are looking at a LED case temp of between 110 and 130˚C + and even higher junction temperature which is getting beyond the recommended operating specs of the LED and is going to significantly reduce the life of the LED. If you are doing long drives and sitting in traffic then your LED driving lights or angel eyes will fail prematurely (though if you don't drive a lot or mainly at night or cold climates you might not notice).

However, if you factor in the 20 to 30˚C temperature reduction by the fan then you are back within acceptable limits and the LED should last the life of the car.

If you do some reading the use of cooling fans in residential and commercial LED lighting is not uncommon and many of the car manufacturers like Audi, BMW and GM are all using cooling fans in their High Power LED and Laser Diode driving lights including the R8, A6 and Cadillac. It is nothing new but a necessity if you want to run high power LEDs or Laser Diodes with such a relatively tiny heatsink in what is often an extremely hot environment for a LED.

The retrofit stalk design is also very poor in terms of heat sinking the LED but I will let you know once I do some measurements on a few samples.

don
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST