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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > New mods for my car - VIP Tuning cold air intake and charge pipes - pictures inside



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      01-13-2008, 12:35 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince View Post
Majority of the companies that have produced intakes have made 10+ intakes before they settled on the one that was the "best" in their opinion. Don't assume things are so easy. Yes there is a fair bit inflation due to the fact that it is being put on a BMW. But don't downplay the amount of hard work that goes into the majority of R&D that is done on most parts.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm telling you fully researched intakes for Eclipses, STis, and Supras don't cost this much.

I also think you're grossly overstating the "science" of a 3" diameter tube with as few bends as possible and a cone filter.
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      01-14-2008, 06:23 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
I have no intentions to argue about this product but I will one more time be clear about what I think about turbo cars and so called "cold air intakes".

The cold air intake in my opinion does not improve any air intake temp for the simple fact that the air is being compressed and "re-cool" on the intercooler before it entry the intake manifold.

No matter what, the air will be sucked into the the turbos to be compressed and heated up to later cool down when it exits the turbo compressor and travels through the piping and the intercooler.

I can clearly see the benefit of a cold air intake on a N/A engine because the air will travel directly into the TB/ intake manifold thus making a difference, the colder is being sucked the colder is gets directly to the engine.

The only thing that I see as advantage is perhaps the flow(size of the air filter,material of the airl filter element, shape of the intake pipes, etc.

I will never plan on putting a "cold air intake" on any of my turbo cars.

my .2c
I agree 100% but there's also the fact that the cooler the air going into the turbo the cooler it'll be when it leaves towards the intercooler.

This doesn't mean the difference will be significant, but it will make a difference in intake temperatures if the air from the filter is substantially cooler than the engine bay temps.

This setup looks a bit decieving though. Even though they list it as CAI, it looks like a conventional intake that is getting air from the engine bay opposed to an external source.
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      01-14-2008, 06:30 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvieira24 View Post
I agree 100% but there's also the fact that the cooler the air going into the turbo the cooler it'll be when it leaves towards the intercooler.

This doesn't mean the difference will be significant, but it will make a difference in intake temperatures if the air from the filter is substantially cooler than the engine bay temps.

This setup looks a bit decieving though. Even though they list it as CAI, it looks like a conventional intake that is getting air from the engine bay opposed to an external source.

i am pretty sure that the intake from the VIP cai comes from the lower driver side of the front bumper - no where near the engine bay.

someone correct me if i am wrong.
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      01-14-2008, 06:36 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
i am pretty sure that the intake from the VIP cai comes from the lower driver side of the front bumper - no where near the engine bay.

someone correct me if i am wrong.
I hope so, It's just hard to tell looking at the picture.

Also I don't really believe the price should be inflated because it's for a luxury vehicle, but certain products ARE inflated when they are first released to cover intiial expenses.
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      01-14-2008, 06:45 PM   #115
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I agree 100% but there's also the fact that the cooler the air going into the turbo the cooler it'll be when it leaves towards the intercooler.
I've heard this 1,000,000 times but never seen a shred of proof. I think when you compress the shit out of the intake charge in a compressor connected to a 1300 degree exhause stream, it's going to come out the same temperature - BLAZES HOT.

Even if there was a cooler exit temp, it's not only going to be minimal, it's going to disapear when it's running through the pre-IC pipes that are soaking heat from the engine bay.

CAI on a turbo car is worthless. Get a short ram and FEED THAT BLOWER. Let the cooling happen where it matters, at the IC.
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      01-14-2008, 06:47 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
I've heard this 1,000,000 times but never seen a shred of proof. I think when you compress the shit out of the intake charge in a compressor connected to a 1300 degree exhause stream, it's going to come out the same temperature - BLAZES HOT.

Even if there was a cooler exit temp, it's not only going to be minimal, it's going to disapear when it's running through the pre-IC pipes that are soaking heat from the engine bay.

CAI on a turbo car is worthless. Get a short ram and FEED THAT BLOWER. Let the cooling happen where it matters, at the IC.
Colder air is more dense air... Picking it up hot would lower the density as opposed to picking it up cold from the fender no?
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      01-14-2008, 06:48 PM   #117
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Also i was wondering if anyone heard or knows any details or updates about the oil catchcan that VIP is making?
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      01-14-2008, 07:18 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Also i was wondering if anyone heard or knows any details or updates about the oil catchcan that VIP is making?
Check over @ n54tech.com.

It is a pretty generic setup, any good fabrication shop can weld you one on. From what I read over there is they send you all the stuff you need and then you have to get it welded onto your car
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      01-14-2008, 08:18 PM   #119
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Looks expensive. I like it. I think the word is still out on the BOV's though.
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      01-14-2008, 08:29 PM   #120
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Looks expensive. I like it. I think the word is still out on the BOV's though.
If you want to utilize BOVs and can set them up right, go for it. I personally will upgrade to Forge DVs first as they are a good company and want to utilize what the engine was designed for. Then again, it wasn't technically designed for 15 pounds of boost either.
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      01-14-2008, 08:40 PM   #121
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So do Cold Air Intakes make any power on our cars, or not? There seems to be some confusion in this thread.
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      01-14-2008, 08:43 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
I've heard this 1,000,000 times but never seen a shred of proof. I think when you compress the shit out of the intake charge in a compressor connected to a 1300 degree exhause stream, it's going to come out the same temperature - BLAZES HOT.

Even if there was a cooler exit temp, it's not only going to be minimal, it's going to disapear when it's running through the pre-IC pipes that are soaking heat from the engine bay.

CAI on a turbo car is worthless. Get a short ram and FEED THAT BLOWER. Let the cooling happen where it matters, at the IC.
alot of theories floating around about how effective cai will be.
i just want to see an independant before and after dyno - shouldn't that prove if it works or not??

i still cannot believe that no one has posted one yet!

i am still on the fence and just want to know the truth cabout cai!!
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      01-14-2008, 08:45 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Also i was wondering if anyone heard or knows any details or updates about the oil catchcan that VIP is making?
they said in about a month...catch cans seem like a logical mod to me....but what do i know
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      01-14-2008, 08:47 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideelement247 View Post
Check over @ n54tech.com.

It is a pretty generic setup, any good fabrication shop can weld you one on. From what I read over there is they send you all the stuff you need and then you have to get it welded onto your car
i thoought the catch cans go on the hot side of the stock IC 'piping".
if i am correct, that piping is a rubber type hose. how would u weld a catch can onto a rubber hose??

thanks
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      01-14-2008, 08:55 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by midlife View Post
i thoought the catch cans go on the hot side of the stock IC 'piping".
if i am correct, that piping is a rubber type hose. how would u weld a catch can onto a rubber hose??

thanks
I was just stating what I read on the posts on n54tech.com. Go there and they are quite active over there. Mike says it is a weld on item. Other than that it doesn't say much.
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      01-14-2008, 08:55 PM   #126
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BTW, yes it does go on the hot side of the IC piping.
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      01-14-2008, 09:08 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
I've heard this 1,000,000 times but never seen a shred of proof. I think when you compress the shit out of the intake charge in a compressor connected to a 1300 degree exhause stream, it's going to come out the same temperature - BLAZES HOT.

Even if there was a cooler exit temp, it's not only going to be minimal, it's going to disapear when it's running through the pre-IC pipes that are soaking heat from the engine bay.

CAI on a turbo car is worthless. Get a short ram and FEED THAT BLOWER. Let the cooling happen where it matters, at the IC.
I suspect that Benoît Paul Émile Clapeyron would disagree with you. Not only him, but the thousands of HVAC or Chiller designers which have existed.

pV = nRT has T in there for a reason. Change that and you will get a different output. The IC works on percentages so the cooler the air going in, the lower coming out. Simple tests can be devised to support this and in fact, I have worked on a few OEM cells to do this type of thing.

As for heat transfer from the hot turbo, this is minimal. The air is traveling at over 30 feet per second at full song. This means it is through the turbo in less than a second. Without heat transfer fins or embossments (ridges meant to increase surface area and the heat transfer, commonly used in heat exchanger piping), the flow will pick up minimal heat; generally less than 20 degrees on a hot compressor. This is on top of the intake temperature.

To say this is unfounded is incorrect. Read any real engineering book and many examples can be cited.
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      01-14-2008, 09:13 PM   #128
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There are other companies that posted real rwhp numbers on a dyno. Logic motorsports has their own intake coming out that is something like 16rwhp! They also posted the pics of the before and after. Do a search under logicmotorsports!
---Everyone is still waiting to see before and after pics of the dyno on this notorious intake setup!
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      01-14-2008, 09:21 PM   #129
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There are other companies that posted real rwhp numbers on a dyno. Logic motorsports has their own intake coming out that is something like 16rwhp! They also posted the pics of the before and after. Do a search under logicmotorsports!
---Everyone is still waiting to see before and after pics of the dyno on this notorious intake setup!
There's Adam's wors of wisdom.

Hey, I sold the rims, so I will be seeing you very very soon.
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      01-14-2008, 10:34 PM   #130
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i still cannot believe that no one has posted one yet!
+1.

When people post up the number after but not before, it drives me nuts. It's like peanut no butter. ham no burger. peas no carrots. yin no yang
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      01-17-2008, 05:51 PM   #131
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I'm not convinced that this crap could actually add power...sorry.
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      01-17-2008, 10:37 PM   #132
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A real analysis would be awesome. Who's got a dyno and want's to do a test? Do a follow up as well to see if the car reacts after it's adjusted to the new breather.
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