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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Dyno



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      01-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
This was the problem that I had with the Xede. Part throttle was very jerky like the car didn't know what to do. This is interesting because I was expecting the Dinan flash to be smoother.
The Dinan flash is still smooth. It's just that you need to push the pedal further in order to get the extra boost benefits. There really isn't a sharp transition point as far as I could feel. Low-to-partial throttle felt subjectively lazier than stock only because heavy-to-full throttle was substantially stronger. The advantage to this approach, btw, is slightly improved fuel economy (because many people only tend to use the first 1/2 of throttle movement during normal day to day driving). Less average torque output also results in lower average tailpipe emissions.

An enthusiast with the Dinan flash may just have to get more accustomed to digging deep into the throttle if the wants to experience the extra push. Not exactly a horrible thing. Some may even prefer it this way. While others won't. It's up to the end user to see what his/her preference is.

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      01-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
This was the problem that I had with the Xede. Part throttle was very jerky like the car didn't know what to do. This is interesting because I was expecting the Dinan flash to be smoother.
The throttle response by no means at all, jerky. It is very smooth. It is a tad slower in response.

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      01-06-2008, 04:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The Dinan flash isn't unsmoother. It's just that you need to push the pedal further in order to get full boost. There really isn't a sharp transition point as far as I could feel. Low to partial throttle felt subjectively lazier than stock only because full throttle was substantially stronger. The advantage to this approach, btw, is slightly improved fuel economy (because most people are more used to using only the first 1/2 of throttle movement during normal day to day driving) and, as a result, better tailpipe emissions.

shiv

I wish I could have said that when I was trying to explain it! That is very well said! Thanks.


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      01-06-2008, 04:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
The one thing I notice about this graph is how much significantly less horsepower and torque the Dinan tune produces above 5,500 rpms as compared to stock. Does the Dinan tune feel LESS strong in the higher rpms compared to stock?
According to the graph the Dinan makes significiantly more HP and TQ above 5500 rpm than stock.
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      01-06-2008, 04:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ear997s View Post
I wish I could have said that when I was trying to explain it! That is very well said! Thanks.


Eric
No problem Eric. Thanks for posting up a very fair and balanced review of something you purchased. It's easy for many people (yes, myself included) to lean a bit too far towards one side or another. Enjoy your car!

Cheers,
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      01-06-2008, 04:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ear997s View Post
The throttle response by no means at all, jerky. It is very smooth. It is a tad slower in response.

Eric
OK. I misunderstood then.
It didn't make sense to me that Dinan's program would be jerky.

I had the Dinan software in my e46 M3. It was already on the car when I purchased it and even though it gave no more power the drivability of the car was outstanding.
Later on, I wanted to try another program so I had BMW put the stock program back on the car. When I left the dealer it was very noticable with the difference between Dinan and stock.
I ended up going with a Powerchips flash.
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      01-06-2008, 04:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The Dinan flash is still smooth. It's just that you need to push the pedal further in order to get the extra boost benefits. There really isn't a sharp transition point as far as I could feel. Low-to-partial throttle felt subjectively lazier than stock only because heavy-to-full throttle was substantially stronger. The advantage to this approach, btw, is slightly improved fuel economy (because most people are more used to using only the first 1/2 of throttle movement during normal day to day driving) and, as a result, better tailpipe emissions.

An enthusiast with the Dinan flash will just have to get more accustomed to digging deep into the throttle if the wants to experience the extra push. Not exactly a horrible thing. Some may even prefer it this way. While others won't. It's up to the end user to see what his/her preference is.

shiv
Now you are being objective and this is kind what I would say up to about 35-40% throttle position and is kind what the BMW 27.0 software does as well and why a lot bitched they lost power when they did not. The next time you do try a Dinan flash is look at the rate of change and its effects. Everything above 40% does ramp up a lot quicker to 65% throttle position then more after this if you compare directly to a stock car. The PROcede does respond a hell lot harder at partial throttle positions.

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      01-06-2008, 04:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
this is kind what I would say up to about 35-40% throttle position and is kind what the BMW 27.0 software does as well and why a lot bitched they lost power when they did not.

Orb
Hang on... don't mean to steal the thread, but what exactly did the 27.0 do? I had my 335i updated about 7 weeks ago to see if it fixed the "my sirius radio keeps telling me its not activated" problem. It did fix that problem, but I did also notice something different with the throttle that I couldn't put my finger on.

What I *did* notice was that my average MPG dropped from about 19mpg to about 15-16mpg. Can someone explain or provide a link to what changed with this update?
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      01-06-2008, 04:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daves335i View Post
Hang on... don't mean to steal the thread, but what exactly did the 27.0 do? I had my 335i updated about 7 weeks ago to see if it fixed the "my sirius radio keeps telling me its not activated" problem. It did fix that problem, but I did also notice something different with the throttle that I couldn't put my finger on.

What I *did* notice was that my average MPG dropped from about 19mpg to about 15-16mpg. Can someone explain or provide a link to what changed with this update?
When my car was upgrades to 27.07 it change the throttle response a lot so the car stopped stubbing in 1st gear and lower partial throttle response (auto car it was really bad). The higher the load demands at partial throttle means smoother power delivery but it feel like less power.

My gas milage was up on v26 software but back down of v27 in less than 1 mile.

I can't give you link because it not listed but also changed my transmission and brake assist behavior just as much.

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      01-06-2008, 04:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
According to the graph the Dinan makes significiantly more HP and TQ above 5500 rpm than stock.
No it doesn't, look again. It achieves more at its peak, and more at the beginning, but not more on the back end. Why?
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      01-06-2008, 04:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
No it doesn't, look again. It achieves more at its peak, and more at the beginning, but not more on the back end. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ear997s View Post
Looks like more the whole way through to me....(don't confuse the dinan torque curve for the hp curve...)
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      01-06-2008, 04:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh4852 View Post
Looks like more the whole way through to me....(don't confuse the dinan torque curve for the hp curve...)
Ok, I am a f**king idiot, you're right ([me][me]). But, notice the Dinan torque curve dives harder down after about 3,500 or so rpms......why????
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      01-06-2008, 05:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Ok, I am a f**king idiot, you're right ([me][me]). But, notice the Dinan torque curve dives harder down after about 3,500 or so rpms......why????
pure guess......the high rpms ranges are pushing the efficiency range of the stock turbo's, especially when you up the boost w/ a tune.
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      01-06-2008, 05:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
pure guess......the high rpms ranges are pushing the efficiency range of the stock turbo's, especially when you up the boost w/ a tune.

I think that is a good guess, after all the car is constrained by the size of the turbos.

OP: What gear did you do the pulls?
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      01-06-2008, 05:36 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I think that is a good guess, after all the car is constrained by the size of the turbos.
Yes, but at a higher power/airflow level. Not at 315-320whp.

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      01-06-2008, 05:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
yeah, but shiv, if people responded with kindness and love there would be no drama and then people would forget that their in e90post.......hehehehe.
AMEN to that..
Then i would have to go back to ALL MY TUNERS on tv.
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      01-06-2008, 05:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyg View Post
I think that is a good guess, after all the car is constrained by the size of the turbos.

OP: What gear did you do the pulls?
All pulls were done in 4th gear.
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      01-06-2008, 05:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Yes, but at a higher power level. Not at 315-320whp.

Shiv
That's why you are here, to find the limit of these turbos. Shiv, I admired how objective you have been in this thread. As we now all know, Dyno's read differently, however the OP had a 51+ WHP gain from stock. So if we took Helix's results from their stock car which put out 283 whp stock, we are looking at 334 WHP assuming the gain is consistent at 51 WHP, so total WHP is irrelevant, what we are interested in seeing is total change in WHP, please correct me if I am wrong. At a max boost of 13.2 psi one can't short change the result of ~50+ WHP.
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      01-06-2008, 05:54 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyg View Post
That's why you are here, to find the limit of these turbos. Shiv, I admired how objective you have been in this thread. As we now all know, Dyno's read differently, however the OP had a 51+ WHP gain from stock. So if we took Helix's results from their stock car which put out 283 whp stock stock, we are looking at 334 WHP assuming the gain is consistent at 51 WHP. At a max boost of 13.2 psi one can't short change the result.
I really don't want to get into an argument over this. But we have now dyno'd two Dinan flashed cars on the dyno. The same dyno we've used to dyno close to a hundred 335s, modded and stock. This is what I'm basing my opinion on. Everyone will have their own opinions I guess.

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      01-06-2008, 06:00 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ear997s View Post
All pulls were done in 4th gear.
thanks for the info, you did what i didn't which was provide a baseline. Let us know how the car feels after you put some miles with the flash. Do most stock 335i's dyno at 265? So this Dyno was done on the SoCal Dynojet you use? I thought the OP was from VA?
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      01-06-2008, 06:03 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I really don't want to get into an argument over this. But we have now dyno'd two Dinan flashed cars on the dyno. The same dyno we've used to dyno close to a hundred 335s, modded and stock. This is what I'm basing my opinion on.

Shiv
No argument here Shiv. I think you misunderstood my post. All I am saying is you get ~50 whp from the Dinan Flash. Do most stock 335i's dyno at 265?
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      01-06-2008, 06:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyg View Post
No argument here Shiv. I think you misunderstood my post. All I am saying is you get ~50 whp from the Dinan Flash. Do most stock 335i's dyno at 265?
With a SAE correction like this results, yes. With it, stock cars usually put down between 265-270whp. With STD, the usually put down 270-275whp. A few higher and a few lower, depending ultimately on conditions and actual CF of course.

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