E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu Stg 2: Inital 91 octane dyno testing



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-10-2008, 07:24 PM   #111
Malek@MRF
Brigadier General
Malek@MRF's Avatar
United_States
62
Rep
3,406
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, F30, E30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The same signal (from the Crank angle sensor) it uses to read RPM is the same signal it modifies to advance/retard ignition timing. I cringe at the idea of giving this duty to the stock ECU since it should only be used as a last resort.

Shiv
I couldnt agree with you anymore already than to allow the stock ECU control timing based on knock.. Poor idea.. I dont tune this way either and never will because I have seen situations where catastrophic failure occurs.

Anyway, if its reading the CAS for RPM and IGN timing, how is it actually retarding the timing actively without directly being connected to the ignitor?
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 07:29 PM   #112
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
I couldnt agree with you anymore already than to allow the stock ECU control timing based on knock.. Poor idea.. I dont tune this way either and never will because I have seen situations where catastrophic failure occurs.
+1

Quote:
Anyway, if its reading the CAS for RPM and IGN timing, how is it actually retarding the timing actively without directly being connected to the ignitor?
We adjust timing by phase shifting the crank angle sensor waveform. It's like adding or subtracting mechanical advance by rotating the crank trigger wheel. But from electronically and from the sensor/signal side.

Another option, which we stopped using years ago, was by modifying the signal going to the coils. This worked too. But it needed to lead to premature coil failure. I've always found this to be an unnecessarily "sloppy" approach. It also interferes with the factory knock control system which is also bad.

Shiv
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 07:37 PM   #113
Malek@MRF
Brigadier General
Malek@MRF's Avatar
United_States
62
Rep
3,406
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, F30, E30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
+1



We adjust timing by phase shifting the crank angle sensor waveform. It's like adding or subtracting mechanical advance by rotating the crank trigger wheel. But from electronically and from the sensor/signal side.


Shiv
Cool enough, makes perfect sense. Almost like a modern old school way if you know what I mean. (ala distributor, heh)


Have you done any proto testing to see how the ecu responds to simply increasing boost pressure without any other remapping?
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 07:45 PM   #114
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Cool enough, makes perfect sense. Almost like a modern old school way if you know what I mean. (ala distributor, heh)


Have you done any proto testing to see how the ecu responds to simply increasing boost pressure without any other remapping?
Yep... it trims back timing through adaptation. The only problem with this approach is not only is it reactive (upon first installation), it also directly chops away at the safety margin/timing retard range the car comes with from the factory. This seriously compromises the car's adaptability when faced with adverse conditions.

Shiv
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 08:11 PM   #115
scalbert
Major General
scalbert's Avatar
78
Rep
5,712
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Another option, which we stopped using years ago, was by modifying the signal going to the coils. This worked too. But it needed to lead to premature coil failure.
I hope the coils of those guys running the E-Manage I set up for the Acura/Honda J-Series are still doing fine.

It was just for under boost retard as any advance imediately set misfire codes.
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 08:11 PM   #116
scalbert
Major General
scalbert's Avatar
78
Rep
5,712
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

iTrader: (7)

Hrmm, this dyno might make me rethink about not getting DP's.
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 08:49 PM   #117
tek818
Lieutenant Colonel
tek818's Avatar
38
Rep
1,838
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 135i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2012 BMW 135i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Hrmm, this dyno might make me rethink about not getting DP's.
+1.. although I always had the thought in the back of my head that the final decision would be made once I saw shiv's dynos
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 08:50 PM   #118
chris b.
Brigadier General
chris b.'s Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
3,253
Posts

 
Drives: zmp e90
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: White Plains NY

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 335i  [0.00]
me too. so happy he got them. now we need high flow cat dp's and im set
__________________

Brentuning Cobb AP pro tune
2010 335i zmp fbo
465whp 513tq 50% E85
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 08:59 PM   #119
A418t81
Major
United_States
19
Rep
1,317
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3/997TT
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Birmingham Al

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Nice numbers for 91 Shiv I remember back in the day when the Evo guys would smoke their coils out with the Emanage. Pretty sure the N54 is a 60-1 trigger, would be interesting to see somebody throw a boost referenced MSD on the car.
__________________
'15 AW/SO F80 M3 6MT: IND cosmetic package, Gloss black grill surrounds, Macht schnell 15mm spacers all around, 3M crystalline
07 997 TT 6MT, Arctic Silver/Sea Blue: AWE exhaust, Cobb stage 2, GT2RS ICs, H&R, 19" BBS CH-R in widebody fitment
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2008, 11:54 PM   #120
doba_s
Major General
doba_s's Avatar
United_States
150
Rep
6,099
Posts

 
Drives: M3, 1M
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (26)

Send a message via Skype™ to doba_s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riss Racing View Post
Great work Shiv! Riss Racing DP + Vishnu V2 is a nasty combo
don't forget to add Forge DVs to hold that boost
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2008, 12:59 AM   #121
stillclaimndp
Dancing Machine
stillclaimndp's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,419
Posts

 
Drives: 335i e90 ZSP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walnut Creek, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to stillclaimndp
Quote:
Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
don't forget to add Forge DVs to hold that boost
this has been shown to be unnecessary, stock DV's hold 25psi per Terry's testing, pretty simple test can't really screw it up... perhaps it doesn't show longevity, however.
__________________
2007 e90 & 1981 Corvette Predecessors: 2007 BMW 335i E92, 2006 M5, 2008 Viper SRT10 Coupe, 2005 Viper Yellow, 2006 Corvette Z51, 2009 Challenger SRT8, 2006 S4, 2001.5 Nogaro Blue S4, 2006 GTI w/ DSG, 06 Evo IX, 04 S4, 04 911x51, 03 Evo VIII, 98 Eclipse GSX, 96 GST, 92 Galant Vr-4, '70 Grand Prix Model J, '70 Nova, '68 Firebird
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2008, 05:46 AM   #122
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
143
Rep
5,179
Posts

 
Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
what is the A/F ratio at 14ish PSI of boost? Considering the direct injection and 10.2 compression ratio of the motor makes it beneficial to make power and all, what is done about the ignition timing since it is not directly controlled? Is the knock prevented by the pro-cede unit by richening up the fuel mixture around peak torque, or is the stock knock control doing the work?
Guys, I was over at IS300.net once and Malek is not a troll at all. He was a very valuable member over there and I am sure will be here as well. Welcome Malek.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2008, 12:00 PM   #123
v2bling
First Lieutenant
v2bling's Avatar
4
Rep
301
Posts

 
Drives: speed demon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mansfield,tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji335i View Post
Hi Terry.
What a ***
__________________
535i -
Black Sapphire/Black Dakota/Bamboo/AnthraciteHeadliner/M-Tech Kit/Spoiler/Sports/Premium/Navi/HUD/Comfort/Rear Shades/ParkDistance/Ipod/Sports Auto w/Paddle/Logik7/30% Tint/Clear Bra/KW3/ Radenergie rs10 20"/Defi RedRacer Psi/Smoked front reflectors/ LED interior lights

Soon: Rpi Catback, GIAC or EVOtech flash, Dinan Rear Strut, OEM M5 Mirrors
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2008, 12:04 PM   #124
BMW_TT
Colonel
56
Rep
2,550
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to BMW_TT Send a message via MSN to BMW_TT Send a message via Yahoo to BMW_TT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
Guys, I was over at IS300.net once and Malek is not a troll at all. He was a very valuable member over there and I am sure will be here as well. Welcome Malek.

I can vouch for that as well, used to be an IS owner.


Oh yeah almost forgot. This has been a great informative thread so far. We need more threads like this.

Last edited by BMW_TT; 01-11-2008 at 12:41 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-14-2008, 01:45 AM   #125
N54YO
Lieutenant
N54YO's Avatar
United_States
10
Rep
423
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 BMW E92 335/2005 Scion tC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Leandro, CA

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to N54YO
This thread is great. Very informative and great work Shiv. DPs sure sounds like a tempting idea. I think I'll just stick w/ the stock DP however (for now at least). I think w/ just V2 and your Intake will be enough for me. Not looking to be the top of the hill here.
__________________

2008 BMW E92 335i
Sparkling Graphite/Coral Red/Grey Poplar
Sport/Navi/Premium/Comfort/iPod/6-Speed Manual
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2008, 03:20 PM   #126
XLR8MF
Captain
XLR8MF's Avatar
9
Rep
631
Posts

 
Drives: 335i sedan 2008
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mesa

iTrader: (6)

where's the map?
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2008, 03:23 PM   #127
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
82
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
lol.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2008, 03:30 PM   #128
E90ice
Banned
E90ice's Avatar
51
Rep
2,004
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: May 2006
Location: WA

iTrader: (0)

Shiv, will this map work for catless cat-back?

What about stock catless DP's?

Thanks!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2008, 09:44 PM   #129
bullmrkt
Lieutenant
bullmrkt's Avatar
United_States
7
Rep
458
Posts

 
Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: usually my desk

iTrader: (0)

bump for updates
__________________
2007 E92 335i For Sale (lots of *good* mods)
2003 BMW M5 Dinan S1+++
2002 BMW Z8 (with a Dinan DP Engine)
1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
1972 BMW 2002tii and 1964 Porsche 356 C Coupe
Appreciate 0
      01-30-2008, 10:34 AM   #130
jcarlucci1
Lieutenant Colonel
26
Rep
1,638
Posts

 
Drives: Jet Black 335i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLR8MF View Post
where's the map?
Haha..six months until you see that map
Appreciate 0
      01-30-2008, 02:27 PM   #131
down4it
Banned
United_States
35
Rep
1,743
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (3)

I havent seen Shiv on the boards this past week so im sure he's cookin somethin up over there... I assume the Beta testers will see the map in the next week or so, soon after that it will be released to everyone
Appreciate 0
      01-30-2008, 02:41 PM   #132
retrodrive
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
72
Rep
1,938
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
I havent seen Shiv on the boards this past week so im sure he's cookin somethin up over there... I assume the Beta testers will see the map in the next week or so, soon after that it will be released to everyone
You are right. I feel like the less I see Shiv on the boards, the more value I am getting. He is either doing a writeup on the data-logging or tuning.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST