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      01-11-2008, 12:34 PM   #1
ThomasMartin
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Turbos are not the restriction at altitude

Well i did 2 things,
1. uploaded firmware and map with XP not vista
2. checked and rechecked my ground wire.

Idle psi is now -2.8 PSI NOT -4 PSI and with 90% settings V2 im maxing at 14.4 PSI in 1st gear and 13.6 PSI in 3rd. Thats higher than when i was on 98% before!

So turbos are not the restriction at high altitude it was either Vista or the ground wire.

1st picture is of 1st gear at 14.4 PSI 2nd picture of 3rd gear at 13.6 going to drive for a couple of days than up torque values a little and take it to the dyno to compare the new numbers.
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      01-11-2008, 12:39 PM   #2
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Which map?
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      01-11-2008, 12:43 PM   #3
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Which map?
V2.0.2 12-29
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      01-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #4
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You're just looking at it at different times and different conditions. It's simply not possible to corrupt a file that way, let alone a firmware file which is one of the most sensitive there is.
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      01-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #5
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You're just looking at it at different times and different conditions. It's simply not possible to corrupt a file that way, let alone a firmware file which is one of the most sensitive there is.
I probably did 30 logs on 98% in cold and hot weather and never got higher than 13.7 PSI this is my first log after using XP and i hit 14.4 in 1st gear and 13.6 in 3rd at only 90%.

I doesnt take a tech expert to realize something has changed.
If it wasnt VISTA than it was my ground wire but shiv already explained a ground would not effect peak boost.

Trust me im a computer programmer i wouldnt believe that it was possible but no matter how many runs i did before on 98% i NEVER got higher than 13.7 in any weather conditions. My first run after reinstall and i hit 14.4 PSI.

All im saying is i dont suggest people use vista to upload firmware and maps there isnt 100% proof that it makes a difference but with what iv experienced thats my advice.
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      01-11-2008, 01:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasMartin View Post

Trust me im a computer programmer i wouldnt believe that it was possible
Then you don't just not believe, you KNOW it's not.

Why did you have it on 98%? And now comparing it to 90%
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      01-11-2008, 01:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Then you don't just not believe, you KNOW it's not.

Why did you have it on 98%? And now comparing it to 90%
i logged from 90% all the way to 100% and never got more peak boost than 13.6 PSI. Im comparing it to 90% now because its my first log and the map is 90% default! And im now seeing 14.4 PSI already.

Dont shoot the messenger its just a fact i logged all the way from 90% - 100% and i didnt see anything higher than 13.6 PSI iv posed my logs before. Now im seeing 14.4 PSI in First gear and 13.6 in 3rd. Either a boost leak fixed itself or VISTA did somehow make a difference.

Im also not the only one on the forum to see the same problem with not being able to get high boost when uploading with VISTA.

The only other solution is that SHIV was wrong and the ground can effect peak boost! I think shiv knows his own tuner a little better than that.

I dont really care why it worked i just care that it did
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      01-11-2008, 01:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Then you don't just not believe, you KNOW it's not.

Why did you have it on 98%? And now comparing it to 90%
Same situation as me, not getting the boost numbers he wants so he kept raising his tq values, I stopped at 95% and am seeing 12.5psi and will live with it unless I find out something else is the cause.

I am however already using XP so I can't help prove his theory.
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      01-11-2008, 01:50 PM   #9
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Same situation as me, not getting the boost numbers he wants so he kept raising his tq values, I stopped at 95% and am seeing 12.5psi and will live with it unless I find out something else is the cause.

I am however already using XP so I can't help prove his theory.
Well i did one of two things to repair mine
1. changed to xp, you already using that.
2. fixed my ground wire, maybe open up your ecu check it again and again and also change the grounding point.

Is your idle PSI correct for your altitude?

If that is all correct than probably boost leak, maybe DV's

I have being struggling for a long time to fix the problem though im sure you will find something
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      01-11-2008, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
I am however already using XP so I can't help prove his theory.
Doesn't need to be proven, anyone with a very very basic background in programming would know that the chances of a file corrupting not only in the perfect spot, but in the exact perfect way to affect something like this is impossible. Let a lone it happening to two different people and over multiple uploads.


There's a word for placebo for a reason.
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      01-11-2008, 01:55 PM   #11
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ThomasMartin,

What altitude are you currently at? I'm around 7500ft and I'll be getting my procede and v2 next week, I have vista on a hotswap for my laptop, I could try doing both as well and see what I come up with.
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      01-11-2008, 02:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Doesn't need to be proven, anyone with a very very basic background in programming would know that the chances of a file corrupting not only in the perfect spot, but in the exact perfect way to affect something like this is impossible. Let a lone it happening to two different people and over multiple uploads.


There's a word for placebo for a reason.

OK so in your computer brilliance why do you think im now boosting 1 PSI more at 90% than i was in all my 30 logs from 90%-100% before?
What has changed? I have logged in all weather conditions with different octanes and even threw in a drop in filter and didnt go over 13.6 PSI.

Im not saying it was VISTA im just saying its NEVER impossible and anyone with and i quote "BASIC BACKGROUND PROGRAMMING" knows that nothing is impossible with computers and how programing reacts to changes in external influences such as Procede software that was designed on XP communications protocols and not VISTA'S.

No need to start im just saying i made two changes and one of them obviously worked because im boosting more now at 90% setting than i did at 98% before. To all the guys that are struggling with low boost it wont hurt trying XP even though it is "IMPOSSIBLE"
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      01-11-2008, 02:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humtek View Post
ThomasMartin,

What altitude are you currently at? I'm around 7500ft and I'll be getting my procede and v2 next week, I have vista on a hotswap for my laptop, I could try doing both as well and see what I come up with.
Im at 5800ft, i guess you excited to get your V2. If you got a vista laptop use it there might be no problem im not saying there is im just saying my problem is solved i hope you get good boost it will be interesting seeing what boost levels you get because everyone on the forum seemed to think it was the turbos being maxed out but it wasnt. It will be interesting to see at what altitude the turbos become the bottleneck.

Good luck man i hope you love you V2
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      01-11-2008, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Doesn't need to be proven, anyone with a very very basic background in programming would know that the chances of a file corrupting not only in the perfect spot, but in the exact perfect way to affect something like this is impossible. Let a lone it happening to two different people and over multiple uploads.


There's a word for placebo for a reason.
I have to be honest - I dont know much about computer programming but I am a master bmw technician with 8+ years of experience. what I do know is the vista upload messed up my car. I was the one who originally discovered the problem with vista. Im not saying vista is the cause of everyones problem but it sure was in my case and may be in his.

when i originally recieved the v2 I uploaded the car with Windows - boost was fine the whole time (94 % torque setting and max boost of 15.1 was easily achieved) never a problem or limp mode with the first upload.
easily put 1000 miles on car during this time

then when the newer version came out the pro01v03 - I uploaded this firmware with a new vista laptop - First it wouldnt even go through for about 7 attempts. then finally it said it was "successful" and i upload the map with no problems. took the car out and my boost - no matter what gear or rpm - wouldnt go over 12psi. keep in mind that i drive the same road every day, same temperature ect. nothing changed between the 2. I drove the car for about 600 miles like this before I contacted shiv.

Then I decided to try to go back to using windows again.pro01v03 firmware upload went through on first attempt. set torque settings to 94, same temp, road etc and my boost is back again. 15.0 psi max boost.

The whole time I never opened up the ebox - my cable is routed outside the box - so there is no possible way there is a loose contact or something of that nature.
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      01-11-2008, 02:34 PM   #15
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I have to be honest - I dont know much about computer programming but I am a master bmw technician with 8+ years of experience. what I do know is the vista upload messed up my car. I was the one who originally discovered the problem with vista. Im not saying vista is the cause of everyones problem but it sure was in my case and may be in his.

when i originally recieved the v2 I uploaded the car with Windows - boost was fine the whole time (94 % torque setting and max boost of 15.1 was easily achieved) never a problem or limp mode with the first upload.
easily put 1000 miles on car during this time

then when the newer version came out the pro01v03 - I uploaded this firmware with a new vista laptop - First it wouldnt even go through for about 7 attempts. then finally it said it was "successful" and i upload the map with no problems. took the car out and my boost - no matter what gear or rpm - wouldnt go over 12psi. keep in mind that i drive the same road every day, same temperature ect. nothing changed between the 2. I drove the car for about 600 miles like this before I contacted shiv.

Then I decided to try to go back to using windows again.pro01v03 firmware upload went through on first attempt. set torque settings to 94, same temp, road etc and my boost is back again. 15.0 psi max boost.

The whole time I never opened up the ebox - my cable is routed outside the box - so there is no possible way there is a loose contact or something of that nature.

Glad you fixed it bud, like i said anything is possible its probably not everyones problem but it COULD possibly cure a few peoples headaches.
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      01-11-2008, 02:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Im at 5800ft, i guess you excited to get your V2. If you got a vista laptop use it there might be no problem im not saying there is im just saying my problem is solved i hope you get good boost it will be interesting seeing what boost levels you get because everyone on the forum seemed to think it was the turbos being maxed out but it wasnt. It will be interesting to see at what altitude the turbos become the bottleneck.

Good luck man i hope you love you V2
I'm actually glad I'm getting the procede. I bought a brand new procede with v2 from a member on here and I'm waiting to receive it. Hopefully monday or tuesday.

I live and work at 7500ft, but I can easily travel up to 8000+ ft and then go down to 5000ft. I could even drive 5hrs to get to 4000ft. It will be real interesting to see how the car reacts to the drastic changes in elevation.

Concerning Vista, the way vista communicates period was DRASTICALLY changed from XP. New protocols, etc.... I can see a problem with Vista communicating properly with the procede, but I as well find it hard to see that Vista could actually alter the firmware or map file while uploading. If there were a problem with Vista wouldn't it not be able to communicate properly in the first place? This may lead us all to just use XP for the procede and not try Vista at all.
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      01-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #17
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I'm actually glad I'm getting the procede. I bought a brand new procede with v2 from a member on here and I'm waiting to receive it. Hopefully monday or tuesday.

I live and work at 7500ft, but I can easily travel up to 8000+ ft and then go down to 5000ft. I could even drive 5hrs to get to 4000ft. It will be real interesting to see how the car reacts to the drastic changes in elevation.

Concerning Vista, the way vista communicates period was DRASTICALLY changed from XP. New protocols, etc.... I can see a problem with Vista communicating properly with the procede, but I as well find it hard to see that Vista could actually alter the firmware or map file while uploading. If there were a problem with Vista wouldn't it not be able to communicate properly in the first place? This may lead us all to just use XP for the procede and not try Vista at all.
I agree if there was going to be a communication problem it wouldnt connect at all with VISTA. But is seems to have worked with my problem that is. Stranger things have happened with computers i suppose.

Be carefull if you up your torque values to get yourself close to 15 PSI while at 7000ft then drive down to 4000ft you could cause damage to your car.
Shiv reminded me not to go down to sea level with the torque settings i was running it would create far to much boost. And i travel to the coast often its only a 4 hour drive.
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      01-11-2008, 03:18 PM   #18
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I think that the proper way to say it is that altitude are not restriction to the turbos instead of turbos are not restrictions to altitude..
.
Anyway, I disagree. The altitude kills the boost. The BMW compensates for boost due to altitude changes but up to a point.

I also lived in altitude and I have driven multiple times to 9000FT (Mount lemmon) and I also went all the way to Pikes peak with cars like a WRX.
What makes more credible my history is that many of the uphill drives that I performed were accompanied by other fellow friends with turbo cars as well and all of them with boost gauges, just like me.

Most of my 16 turbos cars have had boost gauges and I clearly see the boost vanishing as you gain altitude. Previously I manually and electronically compensated the lack of boost via manual boost controllers and electronic boost controllers. It is cool indeed that the N54 has a way to compensate however I repeat that altitude affects boost negatively (it will rob boost).

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      01-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
I think that the proper way to say it is that altitude are not restriction to the turbos instead of turbos are not restrictions to altitude..
.
Anyway, I disagree. The altitude kills the boost. The BMW compensates for boost due to altitude changes but up to a point.

I also lived in altitude and I have driven multiple times to 9000FT (Mount lemmon) and I also went all the way to Pikes peak with cars like a WRX.
What makes more credible my history is that many of the uphill drives that I performed were accompanied by other fellow friends with turbo cars as well and all of them with boost gauges, just like me.

Most of my 16 turbos cars have had boost gauges and I clearly see the boost vanishing as you gain altitude. Previously I manually and electronically compensated the lack of boost via manual boost controllers and electronic boost controllers. It is cool indeed that the N54 has a way to compensate however I repeat that altitude affects boost negatively (it will rob boost).

my .2c
I Fully agree altitude does effect boost, there is more air at sea level so its easier to boost more. But i thought my max boost of 13.6 PSI was due to the turbos being maxed out because of my altitude but im now boosting 14.4 with lower torque settings so at MY altitude it wasnt the turbos being the bottleneck. Someone at sea level will obviously get 15 PSI easier than me.

It will be interesting to know how high you can go without the car being able to compensate and hold a high boost setting.
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      01-11-2008, 03:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I'm actually glad I'm getting the procede. I bought a brand new procede with v2 from a member on here and I'm waiting to receive it. Hopefully monday or tuesday.
They can be found dirt cheap these days.
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      01-11-2008, 03:39 PM   #21
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Glad you got the Problem Fixed. Must feel nice with that extra boost.
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      01-11-2008, 03:41 PM   #22
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They can be found dirt cheap these days.
Yeah real cheap smart guy... I think i saw a guy sell just a V2 harness for like over $300 on this site like a couple weeks ago...

Keep dreamin and drivin slow, Hater...
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