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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.



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      01-13-2008, 12:48 AM   #1
Orb
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Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.

This has been posted in general by Stan@Dinan but should be here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106956

Warning

We have recently heard of some tuners that are thinking of adding a piggyback ECU on top of the Dinan 335i software package, to further increase boost. THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!! We at Dinan cannot express how dangerous this is to the motor and turbo's. The turbo's are too small and cannot handle this much extra boost, and either the motor or turbochargers or both will fail. Also the Dinan and BMW factory warranties will be voided because of this.

Dinan engineers have put months into developing software that balances adding extra boost and having factory like reliability. To have the ability to add this much extra horsepower onto the 335i will require larger turbo’s, a better intercooler and oil cooler. Even some modifications to the block might be needed in order to increase torsional rigidity with the increased power.

We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components.

The middle exhaust and intercooler is almost done and will likely put the engine output over 400hp safely. Additional products will follow. We highly recommend that you wait for the proper engineering and durability tests to be completed so your car will be reliable and give you years of trouble free enjoyment.

Last edited by Orb; 01-13-2008 at 10:34 AM.
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      01-13-2008, 01:01 AM   #2
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You should post this on the new N54tech site
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      01-13-2008, 01:05 AM   #3
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how much is the middle exhaust and intercooler going to be? or just a rough estimate.. cuz im already down for the middle exhaust!!!! =D which headquaters u work at orb? The one in mountain view or the other one? ive been checking day in day out at the website waiting for the middle exhaust (downpipes) and intercooler since the day i installed my flash and exhaust!

how long will it take for the cold air intake?
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      01-13-2008, 01:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
This has been posted in general but should be here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106956

Warning

We have recently heard of some tuners that are thinking of adding a piggyback ECU on top of the Dinan 335i software package, to further increase boost. THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!! We at Dinan cannot express how dangerous this is to the motor and turbo's. The turbo's are too small and cannot handle this much extra boost, and either the motor or turbochargers or both will fail. Also the Dinan and BMW factory warranties will be voided because of this.

Dinan engineers have put months into developing software that balances adding extra boost and having factory like reliability. To have the ability to add this much extra horsepower onto the 335i will require larger turbo’s, a better intercooler and oil cooler. Even some modifications to the block might be needed in order to increase torsional rigidity with the increased power.

We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components.

The middle exhaust and intercooler is almost done and will likely put the engine output over 400hp safely. Additional products will follow. We highly recommend that you wait for the proper engineering and durability tests to be completed so your car will be reliable and give you years of trouble free enjoyment.
Well, I agree it's not good to combine two tunes... but considering what we know thus far, this comment really makes me question his knowledge of the N54: "The turbo's are too small and cannot handle this much extra boost, and either the motor or turbochargers or both will fail." ...
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      01-13-2008, 01:11 AM   #5
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      01-13-2008, 01:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iBaller View Post
how much is the middle exhaust and intercooler going to be? or just a rough estimate.. cuz im already down for the middle exhaust!!!! =D which headquaters u work at orb? The one in mountain view or the other one? ive been checking day in day out at the website waiting for the middle exhaust (downpipes) and intercooler since the day i installed my flash and exhaust!

how long will it take for the cold air intake?
I dont think Orb works at either Mt View or Gilroy/Morgan Hill...he says he is from Vancouver...either BC or Washington. I live right between Mt View and Gilroy..and have a friend Izzy Sanchez that works for Dinan..or he did last time I saw him. I am gonna try to track him down to get some lowdown on this issue.
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      01-13-2008, 01:29 AM   #7
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      01-13-2008, 03:33 AM   #8
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We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components.

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      01-13-2008, 03:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
Dinan engineers have put months into developing software that balances adding extra boost and having factory like reliability
LOL wow, that's impressive. They spent a few months on their tune? That's it?!?!? Big deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components
Um, aren't they a little bit late? If the other companies who already have IC's, DP's, exhaust, CAI, offered a "warranty" like Dinan, they (Dinan) would be out of business. You can't be the last company to market with a product that offers nothing new and win many customers...unless you offer the customer the illusion of safety with a so-called "warranty".
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      01-13-2008, 03:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
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We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components.

Where are they going to put bigger turbos? This has been gone over many times. There isn't room unless you want to redesign the entire intake and exhaust system, cast new exhaust manifolds, etc...

I love the car and all, but at some point it's time to say enough is enough. By adding all those mods you destroy what makes the 335i such a great car.
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      01-13-2008, 04:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
Where are they going to put bigger turbos? This has been gone over many times. There isn't room unless you want to redesign the entire intake and exhaust system, cast new exhaust manifolds, etc...

I love the car and all, but at some point it's time to say enough is enough. By adding all those mods you destroy what makes the 335i such a great car.
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      01-13-2008, 05:32 AM   #12
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      01-13-2008, 06:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
This has been posted in general but should be here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106956

Warning

We have recently heard of some tuners that are thinking of adding a piggyback ECU on top of the Dinan 335i software package, to further increase boost. THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!! We at Dinan cannot express how dangerous this is to the motor and turbo's. The turbo's are too small and cannot handle this much extra boost, and either the motor or turbochargers or both will fail. Also the Dinan and BMW factory warranties will be voided because of this.

Dinan engineers have put months into developing software that balances adding extra boost and having factory like reliability. To have the ability to add this much extra horsepower onto the 335i will require larger turbo’s, a better intercooler and oil cooler. Even some modifications to the block might be needed in order to increase torsional rigidity with the increased power.

We are currently developing additional products that will produce more power safely. These include middle exhaust, Intercooler, Cold air intake, bigger turbochargers and stronger engine components.

The middle exhaust and intercooler is almost done and will likely put the engine output over 400hp safely. Additional products will follow. We highly recommend that you wait for the proper engineering and durability tests to be completed so your car will be reliable and give you years of trouble free enjoyment.


How much does common sense cost...?
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      01-13-2008, 07:12 AM   #14
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How much does common sense cost...?
Priceless.
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      01-13-2008, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
Where are they going to put bigger turbos? This has been gone over many times. There isn't room unless you want to redesign the entire intake and exhaust system, cast new exhaust manifolds, etc...

I love the car and all, but at some point it's time to say enough is enough. By adding all those mods you destroy what makes the 335i such a great car.
Maybe theyare going to change the impellers. That way you keep the smaller size of the turbo but the moving parts are now beefed up or designed for higher RPM.

They could do it as a sort of core changeout.
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      01-13-2008, 10:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iBaller View Post
how much is the middle exhaust and intercooler going to be? or just a rough estimate.. cuz im already down for the middle exhaust!!!! =D which headquaters u work at orb? The one in mountain view or the other one? ive been checking day in day out at the website waiting for the middle exhaust (downpipes) and intercooler since the day i installed my flash and exhaust!

how long will it take for the cold air intake?
Like I said.....this was posted by stan@Diana in general part of the forum yesterday afternoon. I only helped by reposting it here. Its bla bla to me.

Orb

Last edited by Orb; 01-13-2008 at 12:15 PM.
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      01-13-2008, 10:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillclaimndp View Post
Well, I agree it's not good to combine two tunes... but considering what we know thus far, this comment really makes me question his knowledge of the N54: "The turbo's are too small and cannot handle this much extra boost, and either the motor or turbochargers or both will fail." ...
Actually they could be right about the turbos as a certain RPM as the bearing will degrade rapidly. Keep in mind not many of the tuners out there have a degree in mechanical engineering and they are not going pick up on detail part of the design that are very specific. Honestly, on engineering perspective they make some valid assumption which is always important. The casual observer like you who demises these observations is ignorant of specific mechanical details and understanding.

Ask Shiv if done a any calculations or researched the mechanical specfics for this engine. I think will open that can of worms.

Orb

Last edited by Orb; 01-13-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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      01-13-2008, 11:24 AM   #18
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I don't think that Dinan has much to worry about in terms of add-ons. Most of their customers bought their flash because of the warranty, not because it produced the most power or anything like that. I don't see many people with a dinan flash pulling apart wires in the ECU compartment, but that's just my take on it.
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      01-13-2008, 01:09 PM   #19
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LOL wow, that's impressive. They spent a few months on their tune? That's it?!?!? Big deal
Actually, their R&D capabilities ARE impressive. If you truly believe the same amount of testing went into the JuiceBox, for example, you're smoking the plastic your crackpipe is made of. How many other tunes increase the duty cycle on the water pump to help cooling, by the way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
Um, aren't they a little bit late? If the other companies who already have IC's, DP's, exhaust, CAI, offered a "warranty" like Dinan, they (Dinan) would be out of business.
What's stopping these other companies from providing a warranty and putting Dinan out of business, then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
You can't be the last company to market with a product that offers nothing new and win many customers...unless you offer the customer the illusion of safety with a so-called "warranty".
Dinan is rarely the first to market with anything, yet they continue to thrive. That fact speaks much louder than your ignorance.
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      01-13-2008, 01:26 PM   #20
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      01-13-2008, 01:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BoostedBMW View Post
I don't think that Dinan has much to worry about in terms of add-ons. Most of their customers bought their flash because of the warranty, not because it produced the most power or anything like that. I don't see many people with a dinan flash pulling apart wires in the ECU compartment, but that's just my take on it.
This warning was pretty much directed at Terry. He was talking about adding a resistor (I mean "hot pill," LOL) to a Dinan flash before it even came out... and there were people that wanted it.
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      01-13-2008, 03:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
Actually they could be right about the turbos as a certain RPM as the bearing will degrade rapidly. Keep in mind not many of the tuners out there have a degree in mechanical engineering and they are not going pick up on detail part of the design that are very specific. Honestly, on engineering perspective they make some valid assumption which is always important. The casual observer like you who demises these observations is ignorant of specific mechanical details and understanding.

Ask Shiv if done a any calculations or researched the mechanical specfics for this engine. I think will open that can of worms.

Orb
Ask me how many engines and turbos that I've seen fail in the last 15 years of tuning instead. Sometimes statistics speak louder than desktop pontifications. I don't think Dinan has done any more research in the area of mechanical limits than many of us. It's no surprise that they are playing it conservative with their tunes. And it has little to do with the structural integrity of the hardware. Think about the typical Dinan customer.

shiv
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