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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.



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      01-14-2008, 12:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
often times, its the real life data that is more important. I cant explain how many times well thought out idea's and engineered goals have failed in real time.

Yes its good to be thorough on both ends (R&D and real time testing) but its the real time information that will yield the results and information we are truly looking for and will allow us to move forward.
With 10k to 25k on a number of chipped cars. I would argue we don't have any significant “real life” data yet. The 12 hour run is the only thing that sticks out to me.

The only way to ensure the tune over the life cycle of the engine is to perform an engineering analysis. Or, wait until you have 100+ cars at 200k miles. Usually people don’t want to wait 10+ years for their tune.
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      01-14-2008, 12:51 PM   #68
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I understand where you are coming from, but try to understand what I was getting at... It doesnt take 10k-25k miles to blow a motor from a poor tune. It takes seconds, often times much less. (thats if the tune is just garbage). But generally speaking, if the motor can run 25k on a specific tune, then its clearly not a poor tune.

Not to be a party foul either, but I think most BMW owners will have many other issues by 200k miles regardless of the tune.
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      01-14-2008, 12:58 PM   #69
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Shiv has developed the first professional tuning for the 335i. Others followed later, some will still follow.

This and the pricing is the reason why everybody expects the PROcede V2 has to be the most tested and reliable tuning as well as the most strongest. All of these attributes cannot be provided concurrently.

I personally would like very open communication what the PROcede can do at specific settings and what it can't. How I should set it up to achieve my personal goals using the user torque settings ( they are not to be the fastest 335i in Europe ).

When I look at the PROcede harness both time I received it I checked it and got the immediate impression better to solder the crimped contacts on the PROcede side. My V2 resistors have been soldered on one side of the resistors and twisted on the other side. The connectors itself are top quality. I have all parts now ( including new connectors ) to make a new PROcede V1 & V2 harness with bypass plugs ). The PROcede hardware itself is top notch as well.

What I miss completely is some kind of release planning. Saying we are planning to release function X at the time T instead of teasing and basicly saying nothing.

I like this forum, I like the PROcede. Read my sig and let's move forward . This Vishnu N54 project should not fail due to vanity fair.

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      01-14-2008, 12:59 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
I understand where you are coming from, but try to understand what I was getting at... It doesnt take 10k-25k miles to blow a motor from a poor tune. It takes seconds, often times much less. (thats if the tune is just garbage). But generally speaking, if the motor can run 25k on a specific tune, then its clearly not a poor tune.

Not to be a party foul either, but I think most BMW owners will have many other issues by 200k miles regardless of the tune.
I don't agree. I see your point but, when you start introduces stresses to metals they donít always fail right away. They slowly give over time when you are in the plastic region, which I think is what we need to be worried about.
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      01-14-2008, 01:11 PM   #71
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dinan def. has more R&D than vishnu.that should be a given. the PROcede is still not even R&D finished yet, i havent seen a PROcede that hasnt had a engine code throw or some kind of limp mode problem or some stupid install issue.(maybe a couple people)
what version are we at now v9? its been over a year and it still isnt right. cmon.
dinan might have taken a year to release the flash, they got there car in january and started research, but so far its working damn well for people.
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      01-14-2008, 01:16 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe View Post
dinan def. has more R&D than vishnu.that should be a given. the PROcede is still not even R&D finished yet, i havent seen a PROcede that hasnt had a engine code throw or some kind of limp mode problem or some stupid install issue.(maybe a couple people)
what version are we at now v9? its been over a year and it still isnt right. cmon.
dinan might have taken a year to release the flash, they got there car in january and started research, but so far its working damn well for people.
v2.0.2 29-12 is a good tuning. It is not optimized for Steptronics but it works at least at stable as v1.47. Stop bashing, pls. try to be objective.
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      01-14-2008, 01:19 PM   #73
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v2.0.2 29-12 is a good tuning. It is not optimized for Steptronics but it works at least at stable as v1.47. Stop bashing, pls. try to be objective.
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      01-14-2008, 01:22 PM   #74
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v2.0.2 29-12 is a good tuning. It is not optimized for Steptronics but it works at least at stable as v1.47. Stop bashing, pls. try to be objective.
sorry, just trying to be objective in a post i saw some bashing upon dinan R&D vs the PROcede's.
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      01-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe View Post
dinan def. has more R&D than vishnu.that should be a given. the PROcede is still not even R&D finished yet, i havent seen a PROcede that hasnt had a engine code throw or some kind of limp mode problem or some stupid install issue.(maybe a couple people)
what version are we at now v9? its been over a year and it still isnt right. cmon.
dinan might have taken a year to release the flash, they got there car in january and started research, but so far its working damn well for people.
I have had the PROcede from the day it came out for the 335 and to this day i have never gone into limp mode or thrown a code... When you read instructions and follow them you dont have issues...
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      01-14-2008, 01:30 PM   #76
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like i said, your the couple of people there just too many cases of limp and engine codes being throw to call it a final R&D product, thats all.
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      01-14-2008, 01:33 PM   #77
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like i said, your the couple of people there just too many cases of limp and engine codes being throw to call it a final R&D product, thats all.
Dont ever underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers...
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      01-14-2008, 01:41 PM   #78
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like i said, your the couple of people there just too many cases of limp and engine codes being throw to call it a final R&D product, thats all.
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      01-14-2008, 01:54 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
I have had the PROcede from the day it came out for the 335 and to this day i have never gone into limp mode or thrown a code... When you read instructions and follow them you dont have issues...
but imagine how u would feel if you did.
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      01-14-2008, 01:55 PM   #80
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Dont ever underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers...
Same experience here...not one issue from day one and have 17k miles so far. As i read in these forums ,the majority of the issues are related to customers not following install instructions ...its the user installation manual that needs more work not the product.
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      01-14-2008, 02:05 PM   #81
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Same experience here...not one issue from day one and have 17k miles so far. As i read in these forums ,the majority of the issues are related to customers not following install instructions ...its the user installation manual that needs more work not the product.
It's the user manual, the expectations from the customers misleaded by the marketing of the company, the ignorance of customers, etc.

In this market as a client you should be a late follower rather than an early adaptor ...
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      01-14-2008, 02:12 PM   #82
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The original post is a no brainer, and I haven't heard of anyone wanting to do this.
If people really wanted to do something like this then they would have combined the Turbo Tuner and the Procede along time ago.
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      01-14-2008, 02:22 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Dont ever underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers...
Speaking of being objective...
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      01-14-2008, 02:22 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
The original post is a no brainer, and I haven't heard of anyone wanting to do this.
If people really wanted to do something like this then they would have combined the Turbo Tuner and the Procede along time ago.
Now you have. Quote from Terry the magnificent

"JB2 on top of Dinan is suicide, but a half strength JB1 would be perfect. Still waiting to do some dyno testing. If anyone in the LA area with the Dinan reflash is interested in free dyno time drop me a note."
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      01-14-2008, 02:22 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe View Post
dinan def. has more R&D than vishnu.that should be a given. the PROcede is still not even R&D finished yet, i havent seen a PROcede that hasnt had a engine code throw or some kind of limp mode problem or some stupid install issue.(maybe a couple people)
what version are we at now v9? its been over a year and it still isnt right. cmon.
dinan might have taken a year to release the flash, they got there car in january and started research, but so far its working damn well for people.

That's stupid of you to say. I've had V1 on since May. Not one limp or code. You're wrong. 98% of people have no issues. You just hear about the 2%. There are plenty of V2's out there without a limp or code.

Dinan was given the keys to the golden gate. They can tune right from the ECU, and may have been given a little assistance (who knows). It took them a little while, but they have a good reliable tune at the expense of no one having it till now.

The piggyback is a little more tricky, especially with BMW having various versions of engine management. Hey... at least I've had my Procede for 7 months. Those with a Dinan tune just got theirs. Oh... my V1 is just as reliable, and my V2 is faster.
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      01-14-2008, 02:45 PM   #86
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That's stupid of you to say. I've had V1 on since May. Not one limp or code. You're wrong. 98% of people have no issues. You just hear about the 2%. There are plenty of V2's out there without a limp or code.

Dinan was given the keys to the golden gate. They can tune right from the ECU, and may have been given a little assistance (who knows). It took them a little while, but they have a good reliable tune at the expense of no one having it till now.

The piggyback is a little more tricky, especially with BMW having various versions of engine management. Hey... at least I've had my Procede for 7 months. Those with a Dinan tune just got theirs. Oh... my V1 is just as reliable, and my V2 is faster.
It’s not stupid to say at all and with any type of engineering experience its plain as day to see.

Just because you are not throwing codes does not mean the piggy-back is not doing irreversible damage to your engine. We really have no clue what V2 is stressing and to what degree. It may be nothing major and everyone here gets 200k out of their new investments. However, we don’t have a clue and neither does Shiv at this point (at least it seems, correct me if I am wrong).

One thing that is clear, Dinan has done enough research to guarantee their product for the first 50k. Is this a long time? NO!! But, if you think they didn’t do any research into making this claim, you are mistaken and would be out of business by now.

Well established companies do not issue warranties lightly, they can put you out of business very quickly!
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      01-14-2008, 02:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWA VaTech View Post
Itís not stupid to say at all and with any type of engineering experience its plain as day to see.

Just because you are not throwing codes does not mean the piggy-back is not doing irreversible damage to your engine. We really have no clue what V2 is stressing and to what degree. It may be nothing major and everyone here gets 200k out of their new investments. However, we donít have a clue and neither does Shiv at this point (at least it seems, correct me if I am wrong).

One thing that is clear, Dinan has done enough research to guarantee their product for the first 50k. Is this a long time? NO!! But, if you think they didnít do any research into making this claim, you are mistaken and would be out of business by now.

Well established companies do not issue warranties lightly, they can put you out of business very quickly!
Ok.. To say EVERY Procede throws codes or limps is stupid. I agree, we have no idea how long cars will be reliable. No one can give us proof of controlled testing. Shiv has done some pseudo-reliability testing with the Bathurst race. I have seen no data from Dinan. Then again, I have seen no data from BMW and I bought the car.
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      01-14-2008, 02:58 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe View Post
dinan def. has more R&D than vishnu.that should be a given. the PROcede is still not even R&D finished yet, i havent seen a PROcede that hasnt had a engine code throw or some kind of limp mode problem or some stupid install issue.(maybe a couple people)
what version are we at now v9? its been over a year and it still isnt right. cmon.
dinan might have taken a year to release the flash, they got there car in january and started research, but so far its working damn well for people.
Indeed, and ignorant comment, IMHO. You only hear those that have had problems in a forum like this. If there are 1000 PROcedes out there (as it has been stated before), just 2-3% of problems would potentially be 20-30 threads here reporting them (not to mention how same users have opened several threads reporting the same or a different issue or asking for follow up, etc.). And most of them have been shown to be user error. You don't hear from those of us who have never EVER had a problem. I've had mine since March without a single issue. I just don't go around starting threads to let everyone know how I did not have any problems.
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