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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.



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      01-14-2008, 02:58 PM   #89
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Maybe good ole Stan can chime in and post up some Hard Facts of Dinans torture test of the N54.....
willing to bet they put Phuk all into it...
no way they were allowed to tap into the M3 territory...
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      01-14-2008, 03:01 PM   #90
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PROcede fan boy response is strong. like i said shiv needs more R&D.
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      01-14-2008, 03:11 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheluto2 View Post
Indeed, and ignorant comment, IMHO. You only hear those that have had problems in a forum like this. If there are 1000 PROcedes out there (as it has been stated before), just 2-3% of problems would potentially be 20-30 threads here reporting them (not to mention how same users have opened several threads reporting the same or a different issue or asking for follow up, etc.). And most of them have been shown to be user error. You don't hear from those of us who have never EVER had a problem. I've had mine since March without a single issue. I just don't go around starting threads to let everyone know how I did not have any problems.
Everything he said was a good point besides his blanket assessment of problems. You are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5sokol335icoupe View Post
PROcede fan boy response is strong. like i said shiv needs more R&D.
lol, they are very quick! I am looking at getting one but, understanding there is risk involved. Not sure everyone understands that. Most seem very quick to throw on the latest version for more power without thinking twice about it. Let’s just say, if I get one, I will not be the one testing the torque limits on V2.
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      01-14-2008, 05:21 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff Rider View Post
Now you have. Quote from Terry the magnificent

"JB2 on top of Dinan is suicide, but a half strength JB1 would be perfect. Still waiting to do some dyno testing. If anyone in the LA area with the Dinan reflash is interested in free dyno time drop me a note."
Oh my gosh!
I stand corrected.

Yeash! He's definitely playing with fire on this one.
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      01-14-2008, 05:38 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff Rider View Post
Now you have. Quote from Terry the magnificent

"JB2 on top of Dinan is suicide, but a half strength JB1 would be perfect. Still waiting to do some dyno testing. If anyone in the LA area with the Dinan reflash is interested in free dyno time drop me a note."
He certainly would not buy Dinan reflash and add a half JB1 since he has the same performance with his JB2H. Technically it should work ok for Dinan customers, but I don't think any Dinan customer would show up for this. Procede customers might be more interested in getting to the 15psi this way. Or with race gas to even more than 15psi.
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      01-14-2008, 06:12 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane View Post
He certainly would not buy Dinan reflash and add a half JB1 since he has the same performance with his JB2H. Technically it should work ok for Dinan customers, but I don't think any Dinan customer would show up for this. Procede customers might be more interested in getting to the 15psi this way. Or with race gas to even more than 15psi.
Oh my gosh! There are more of you out there than I thought!
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      01-14-2008, 06:15 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
Wouldn't it be nice to have the Dinan "braintrust" on this forum. To pick their brain the way everyone picks Shiv's. The fact is that people who buy Dinan's equipment largely don't do it after reading about it on a forum. They talk to an authorized dealer, or see some info at their dealership. They find $2000 between their cushions on their couch, and buy it. They've never looked under the hood once. They just want some power, and they want a warranty. Whether it's truly a better tune with better research doesn't matter. They don't have to install it. No wires. No uninstalling before going to their dealer. No worry about their warranty. At the end of their car ownership they have a more powerful car they can sell, and that value is retained. Have you wondered how you're gonna get squat for your Procede in 2-3 years. Look at the forums, you can't sell V2 Procede for more than $1100. You think you'll get more than that in 2 years? You certainly aren't gonna get someone to buy your car with it installed. Don't get me wrong, I hae a Procede V2. I have been under the hood. Just saying there are other reasons Dinan does well. Mainly their association with some BMW dealerships and warranty. If the Procede was in BMW dealerships and had warranty their wouldn't be any argument to what is the best overall tune. /rant
I actually believe Vishnu would be a better company if the spent less time on the Forum. Then they would have more time for proper customer service. Sure, we would suffer but at least Vishnu would have more respect among their patrons. It would be better for Vishnu too. They would actually have time to pick up the phone when a customer call for tech support or complaints instead of using this forum. I can't believe that this forum is the future of customer service.
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      01-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Oh my gosh! There are more of you out there than I thought!
Oh, there are more. I even remember a future Dinan customer voluteering for this. I just can't fathom paying 2k plus for a full flash then throwing some resistors on top.
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      01-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
It's the user manual, the expectations from the customers misleaded by the marketing of the company, the ignorance of customers, etc.

In this market as a client you should be a late follower rather than an early adaptor ...
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      01-14-2008, 06:20 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Hi Shiv,

I know Orb as a very competent and helpful contributor. He just speaks out very clearly what he has learned due to his profession and personality.

What you can do ( beside proper testing ) is to provide for your customers

1) Very well designed and constructed hardware ( I doubt this for the PROcede harness ).
2) Give your customers the possibility to run a 350whp / 350wtq map with the PROcede V2 or greater on an otherwise stock car. This can be done with your user adjustable torque map or a dedicated map for owners who like such numbers and the appropriate quality. Not everybody likes to squeeze out the max. possible from the engine. Assuming this would be immature.

A lot of your customers have excellent technical background and are as successful in their business as you are in yours.

The world changes a lot for you with the BMW market segment. Most of the customers have the money to switch to a different product as soon they feel they should, honestly. It's your responsibility to serve them well or they will change, as Orb already did. Others may follow.

BTW, the turbos in the 12h Bathurst race withstanded 11 psi, not 14-15 psi.

Cheers
Eugen
+10,000,000

If I had to do it all again...I'd go with Dinan. What is another $600 for a stable program that works and I suspect the customer service is good too.
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      01-14-2008, 06:28 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Oh my gosh! There are more of you out there than I thought!
Yeah
I appreciate your testing btw
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      01-14-2008, 06:41 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LambOfGod View Post
thats coming from a beta tester btw.....
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      01-14-2008, 06:55 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmramos44 View Post
thats coming from a beta tester btw.....
I'm also running Vista.
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      01-14-2008, 06:58 PM   #102
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that was in reference to e.n. w/ V2....
Vista on the other hand is something i would wait on
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      01-14-2008, 07:32 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmramos44 View Post
that was in reference to e.n. w/ V2....
Vista on the other hand is something i would wait on
All Procede users are beta testers. Didn't you get the memo? If you're using Vista...you're a beta tester.
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      01-14-2008, 07:34 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmramos44 View Post
It sounds to me like Orb needed to vent.... nothing more.
He talks about dinans probabilities and then he asks for supporting facts from Vishnu..
He then calls Vishnu a "Small Vendor" (joke)...
Im willing to bet (and i dont gamble) Vishnu's 335i has gone through more hard testing than all Dinan reflashes combined...

GL

Sounds to me like he is one of the most knowledgeable members on the board. I feel like a large percent of the members talk out of their asses and they have no engineering knowledge what so ever. The points Orb is making are very valid, and I agree that the smaller tuners do not have the resources to do the proper testing.


What do you consider "hard testing"? Driving the car until it breaks?
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      01-14-2008, 07:40 PM   #105
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I'm not advocating doing or not doing what Terry says, but a 1/2 strength JB1 would add about a pound of boost. If thats going to "blow" things up, the procede'ed cars would have done so by now.
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      01-14-2008, 07:49 PM   #106
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why would people do that anyways, the whole point of the flash is not to go into the ecu physically and to have a great running engine tuned by dinan with there boost levels.
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      01-14-2008, 07:55 PM   #107
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I never said there was a point, BUT, thinking like somebody who wants closer to procede power with as much "safety" as possible, it would make a bit more sense.

The Dinan flash is mapped for more boost. A piggyback on top of it with a target for ~15 psi would have to attenuate the map sensor much less than a procede running on the factory programming. This puts the ECU into the load cells (which have actually been tuned by Dinan) much more closely correlating to the actual load of the engine, rather than having to shift timing and other parameters in large amounts to compensate....and in theory is "safer."

As I said before, I'm not advocating in either direction....just commenting on an interesting idea.
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      01-14-2008, 08:20 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
I never said there was a point, BUT, thinking like somebody who wants closer to procede power with as much "safety" as possible, it would make a bit more sense.

The Dinan flash is mapped for more boost. A piggyback on top of it with a target for ~15 psi would have to attenuate the map sensor much less than a procede running on the factory programming. This puts the ECU into the load cells (which have actually been tuned by Dinan) much more closely correlating to the actual load of the engine, rather than having to shift timing and other parameters in large amounts to compensate....and in theory is "safer."

As I said before, I'm not advocating in either direction....just commenting on an interesting idea.
+1.
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      01-14-2008, 08:20 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LambOfGod View Post
I actually believe Vishnu would be a better company if the spent less time on the Forum. Then they would have more time for proper customer service. Sure, we would suffer but at least Vishnu would have more respect among their patrons. It would be better for Vishnu too. They would actually have time to pick up the phone when a customer call for tech support or complaints instead of using this forum. I can't believe that this forum is the future of customer service.
I don't agree with some of your comments on this thread....but I do agree with this statement. I think vishnu has been sucked into this forum by the hundreds (thousands?) of procede posts. I know for a fact Dustin would like to be spending a lot more time on fucussing directly with customer service....as it relates to technical support. But it seems like they are almost forced into spending a ton of extra time addressing issues brought up on this forum. I mean it's kind of a lose lose situation for them...if they don't spend a lot of time here they get bashed for not being involved (poor customer service), and if they spend too much time here they get accussed on not focussing on their v2 shipments.

I don't know...it's a tough call for them sometimes...imo. I'm one of the "fanboys" (I hate that label, but it is was it is) that has received great service from vishnu from day 1. I sincerely wish everbody felt this way.
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      01-14-2008, 08:31 PM   #110
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I agree.

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Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
I don't agree with some of your comments on this thread....but I do agree with this statement. I think vishnu has been sucked into this forum by the hundreds (thousands?) of procede posts. I know for a fact Dustin would like to be spending a lot more time on fucussing directly with customer service....as it relates to technical support. But it seems like they are almost forced into spending a ton of extra time addressing issues brought up on this forum. I mean it's kind of a lose lose situation for them...if they don't spend a lot of time here they get bashed for not being involved (poor customer service), and if they spend too much time here they get accussed on not focussing on their v2 shipments.

I don't know...it's a tough call for them sometimes...imo. I'm one of the "fanboys" (I hate that label, but it is was it is) that has received great service from vishnu from day 1. I sincerely wish everbody felt this way.
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