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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > K&N worse than stock? Prototype airbox lid and more.



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      01-30-2008, 06:02 PM   #1
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K&N worse than stock? Prototype airbox lid and more.

Details can be seen on the "other" site. By the way the creator knows the lid was a failure. No need to point it out like you discovered something.











Let me know if the pics don't show up.
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      01-30-2008, 06:03 PM   #2
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pics dont show up


/edit/ pics working now
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      01-30-2008, 06:03 PM   #3
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"Pics don't show up."
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      01-30-2008, 06:06 PM   #4
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I see X's
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      01-30-2008, 06:06 PM   #5
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Didn't think they would but lazyness made me to try.

Hit refresh.
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      01-30-2008, 06:07 PM   #6
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they work now
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      01-30-2008, 06:23 PM   #7
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hmm.
Interesting.
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      01-30-2008, 06:27 PM   #8
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Oh lord. Where's Driver72 at to explain this one.
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      01-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Oh lord. Where's Driver72 at to explain this one.
+1
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      01-30-2008, 06:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Oh lord. Where's Driver72 at to explain this one.
Right here.
Simple, do 10 dyno runs with various filters and you'll get 10 different results.
Then do 10 more with the same filters and you'll get different results again.

I knew about the custom airbox lid, but didn't know it didn't work.

Again, I dynoed my car with the stock and with K&N filter and got more out of the K&N.
Terry, the guy who posted these results has also dynoed stock and with K&N before and got more with the K&N on those times.
He's also had the ITG and switched to the K&N instead because of better results.

Lastly, Terry and I tried a dyno with the airbox lid off as well, and on his car got +10 rwhp gain.
Others have seen 0 rwhp with the lid off, some have seen +5 rwhp gain with lid off, some have seen +10 rwhp like Terry got. So it's clear there is variations from one dyno test to another and from filter to filter, lid on, lid off.
Same goes with intakes, exhausts, etc etc.

Dyno results and mods are as finicky as they get from one run to the next.
You also have to take into consideration when each run was done as I discovered, when you make constant changes between runs like the the ECU seems to get a bit confused and power seems to drop.
As well as if each run had the same cool down time between runs as well.


**Edited for correction of the results from Terry and I dynoing his car with the air lid off.
I typed we saw zero gains with the lid off, but checked the results again and realized we saw +10 rwhp gains with the lid off. It's others I remember seeing zero gains with.***

Last edited by Driver72; 01-31-2008 at 02:05 PM.
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      01-30-2008, 08:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Details can be seen on the "other" site. By the way the creator knows the lid was a failure. No need to point it out like you discovered something.











Let me know if the pics don't show up.

That is a lot of effort for no reason. There no much change in section so not much is going to improve. The vanes would help in the stock air box design not hinder it.

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      01-30-2008, 08:09 PM   #12
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I don't think it was a bad effort by any means.
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      01-30-2008, 08:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I don't think it was a bad effort by any means.
+1. Gotta try to push the envelope somehow.....
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      01-30-2008, 08:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
That is a lot of effort for no reason. There no much change in section so not much is going to improve. The vanes would help in the stock air box design not hinder it.

Orb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burger
We’ve been working on a high flow airlid for the past few weeks and I wanted to candidly share our results. The new lid offers double the volume of the stock lid, double the cross section at its narrowest point, a lot more flow, fits the stock airbox, and installs in 10 seconds. And the best part? Almost no power increases.

The idea came from flow benching the factory airbox setup and noticing the lid was a major restriction point. With a lot of fiberglass, epoxy, and clay, we designed a lid that both fit the car, and showed a lot of promise flow wise.
.
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      01-30-2008, 08:54 PM   #15
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interesting concept but no go. You need to increase the size of the choke points on the "snorkels" IMO if you plan on keeping a stock like setup.

something like this:

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      01-30-2008, 09:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
That is a lot of effort for no reason. There no much change in section so not much is going to improve. The vanes would help in the stock air box design not hinder it.

Orb
the link to the OP states that there was "he new lid offers double the volume of the stock lid, double the cross section at its narrowest point, a lot more flow", so i have to agree with others, it was worth trying.

However, its pretty clear that although the airbox is restrictive, its not the "weakest link".

That's why when I dyno tested my car with the OEM air filter and NO air filter, the results were evident to me - DON'T waste your $$$ on an air filter for power.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104677
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      01-30-2008, 09:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90AW335i View Post
.


I will rephrase, not much change in section were it matters. I don’t have much respect for any mechanical work Terry does as can't even test a diverter valve properly and when I called him on it he deleted my post...LOL.

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      01-30-2008, 09:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
I will rephrase, not much change in section were it matters. I donít have much respect for any mechanical work Terry does as can't even test a diverter valve properly and when I called him on it he deleted my post...LOL.

Orb
Sounds like a personal problem you should take up with him....
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      01-30-2008, 09:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
I will rephrase, not much change in section were it matters. I donít have much respect for any mechanical work Terry does as can't even test a diverter valve properly and when I called him on it he deleted my post...LOL.

Orb
I just went and checked the "other" site and your post is still there...
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      01-30-2008, 09:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90AW335i View Post
I just went and checked the "other" site and your post is still there...
Sure but not the other one.
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      01-30-2008, 09:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
Sure but not the other one.
Go talk to him about it. I am sure it is just a misunderstanding that you guys can figure out.

Back on topic...
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      01-30-2008, 10:26 PM   #22
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I've also posted tons of dyno's before & after w/ K&N and stock... both w/ 500 miles on them... and K&N always makes more power..

Especially when you modify the car with a chip.
The first pull looks like it was done too cold... and not full boost... it's clearly off the entire rpm.

The other thing is if you look closely at the first dyno graph... you can see the last two pulls (green and dark blue) the K&N pulls ahead of the stock filter after 6,000 Rpm... which is closer to the testing I found... and it made more torque.

Peace,
Dave
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