E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Lowering: Requires camber kit or not?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-17-2006, 12:55 PM   #1
ksfrogman
Major General
 
ksfrogman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torrance, CA

Posts: 6,751
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ksfrogman
Lowering: Requires camber kit or not?

I'm assuming that the suspension geometry of the e90 gives the vehicle more negative camber when lowered (springs alone or coilovers). Can the camber simply be readjusted within stock parameters or does an aftermarket camber kit need to be added?
__________________
ksfrogman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2006, 01:00 PM   #2
HRC
MAUI BUILT
 
HRC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i MT
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NORCAL

Posts: 7,779
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to HRC
I think the e90 has adjustments for camber, but I'm not sure. I don't think camber adjustment is needed for a minimal drop, but couldn't hurt !

Danny
__________________
Arctic/Blk Leather/Alum.Trim/MT/ZSP/Sunshades/Blk Lines/M3 Illuminated Knob/Alcantara Performance Wheel/M-E-Brake Handle/Euro Fog Switch/Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs/19" VMR V718's w/PS2 Tires/M-Tech Body Kit/Carbon Fiber Spoiler/Bimmian Interior Bulbs/OEM Eye Glass Tray/SSK/Alcantara Boot/Split Armrest/OEM Dual Rear Power Outlets/Rear Ashtray Delete/OEM Alum. Pedals/Osram 6000K/Brex Rings/LED Side Markers/BMS Power Box
HRC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2006, 09:54 AM   #3
snook
Private First Class
 
Drives: e90m3, 2500hd, 95ltw
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South

Posts: 127
iTrader: (0)

camber kits don't necessarily give back positive camber, they often use the centerline of the stock settings as their starting point. before you purchase, ask if the kit in question gives back positive camber
snook is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2006, 05:07 PM   #4
db17k
Chicketeh china the chinese chicken, you have?
 
db17k's Avatar
 
Drives: 335ci hold out
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 790
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by snook
camber kits don't necessarily give back positive camber, they often use the centerline of the stock settings as their starting point. before you purchase, ask if the kit in question gives back positive camber
so what are our options here, i've had a bad experience with tire wear on a minimal drop before (1.1" drop on my RSX) I really want to get wheels and drop my E90 about 1.2" when i get it, but i never wanna deal with that uneven tire wear again! (brand new yokos only lasted about 19,000 miles because they wore on the inside)

A professional alignment shop could fix this problem right?
__________________
"In Soviet Russia car forks you!"

db17k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2006, 08:15 PM   #5
db17k
Chicketeh china the chinese chicken, you have?
 
db17k's Avatar
 
Drives: 335ci hold out
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 790
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Any camber solutions out there yet?
__________________
"In Soviet Russia car forks you!"

db17k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2006, 11:26 PM   #6
ksfrogman
Major General
 
ksfrogman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torrance, CA

Posts: 6,751
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ksfrogman
I was talking to Mava and he has the H&R race 2" drop on his car, and was able to have the camber adjusted adequetly.

I've decided not to drop my car for two main reasons. Although I love the look, I occasionally will scrape the curb ahead of me when parking. It won't get any better when lowered. When parked parallel to a curb, I don't need to worry as much about passengers opening the doors into the cement.
__________________
ksfrogman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2006, 12:52 AM   #7
db17k
Chicketeh china the chinese chicken, you have?
 
db17k's Avatar
 
Drives: 335ci hold out
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 790
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksfrogman
I was talking to Mava and he has the H&R race 2" drop on his car, and was able to have the camber adjusted adequetly.

I've decided not to drop my car for two main reasons. Although I love the look, I occasionally will scrape the curb ahead of me when parking. It won't get any better when lowered. When parked parallel to a curb, I don't need to worry as much about passengers opening the doors into the cement.
thanks buddy, you do make a good point about the cons. i think i'd go sport, but not race. The H&R's look better than the eibachs IMO, but you know the streets in SF can get kinda rough too so it's a toss up.
__________________
"In Soviet Russia car forks you!"

db17k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-10-2006, 12:57 AM   #8
HRC
MAUI BUILT
 
HRC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i MT
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NORCAL

Posts: 7,779
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to HRC
I've been driving like the car is lowered out of habit even though I'm still looking at my springs(living room) and still waiting for shocks. There is one driveway that I used to scrape all the time, but since I have started drivng the e90, I don't. I know I will scrape again once the car is lowered unless I cut the entry/exit at 45 degrees. I also back in alot to avoid hitting the front against the parking stops.

Danny
__________________
Arctic/Blk Leather/Alum.Trim/MT/ZSP/Sunshades/Blk Lines/M3 Illuminated Knob/Alcantara Performance Wheel/M-E-Brake Handle/Euro Fog Switch/Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs/19" VMR V718's w/PS2 Tires/M-Tech Body Kit/Carbon Fiber Spoiler/Bimmian Interior Bulbs/OEM Eye Glass Tray/SSK/Alcantara Boot/Split Armrest/OEM Dual Rear Power Outlets/Rear Ashtray Delete/OEM Alum. Pedals/Osram 6000K/Brex Rings/LED Side Markers/BMS Power Box
HRC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-10-2006, 01:28 AM   #9
Ghunger
Major
 
Ghunger's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 1,025
iTrader: (0)

Just thought I'd add that I believe Dinan has camber plates for the E90 They're set to add negative camber. They seem expensive though, but I've never bought camber plates before so I guess I wouldn't know.
__________________

330i Monaco Blue, Terra /w aluminum trim, SP, PP, CA, PDC, Nav, Folding Seats, Sat Prep
European Delivery Blog
Picture Gallery
Ghunger is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-10-2006, 07:30 AM   #10
ksfrogman
Major General
 
ksfrogman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torrance, CA

Posts: 6,751
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ksfrogman
I had camber plates installed on my 260Z. They were welded onto the tops of my strut towers and were easy to adjust in either direction.
__________________
ksfrogman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-10-2006, 12:07 PM   #11
shragon
Moderator
 
shragon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 325i SG Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 27,450
iTrader: (7)

my advice is to lower it first, and then get an alignment. from that point, see if you need a camber kit. if you doing mild lowering, with h&r sport or eibach pro-kit, i'm thinking you'll most likely not need a camber kit. this is my experience from my past bmw.

honda's on the other hand are a different story.

i'm also used to driving a lowered car. even though my e90 is not lowered yet, i still drive it like it is.
__________________
shragon is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-12-2006, 06:49 AM   #12
lux.sh
missing two turbos.
 
lux.sh's Avatar
 
Drives: fast around corners.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Curves

Posts: 4,860
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by shragon
i'm also used to driving a lowered car. even though my e90 is not lowered yet, i still drive it like it is.
lol. Somehow what you said made me laugh.
Myself too, coming from lowered vehicles.. I drive my E90 as if it was slammed.
Going extremely slow over bumps, trying to avoid every little dips/potholes on the highway, slowing down when going up/down the steep road, etc etc, all this which is unnecessary with current ZSP suspsnion. Pathetic human beings. They can't adjust to changes fast enough.
__________________
06 AW E90 330i ZPP/ZSP/Step/Expired Warranty

: Prior Design Front : ACS Rear : ACS Roof : BlackLines : Simota Intake : Carbon Fiber Interior Trim :
: MTEC V3 : 24% Charcoal : V1 Hardwired : Solaris Invisibulbs/LED interior :
lux.sh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2006, 01:27 PM   #13
shragon
Moderator
 
shragon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 325i SG Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 27,450
iTrader: (7)

hahaha. it's all in good practice. i'm planning on lowering the e90 anyways. remember to go into those driveways at an angle.
__________________
shragon is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2006, 02:38 PM   #14
dkizerian
Digital Ruler
 
Drives: 325i AW/Terra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Riverton Utah

Posts: 166
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
so what are our options here, i've had a bad experience with tire wear on a minimal drop before (1.1" drop on my RSX) I really want to get wheels and drop my E90 about 1.2" when i get it, but i never wanna deal with that uneven tire wear again! (brand new yokos only lasted about 19,000 miles because they wore on the inside)

A professional alignment shop could fix this problem right?
This sounds like you just had a toe issue. Too much toe(in or out) will wear the inside edge of tires at a greatly accelerated rate, while too much negative camber will do very little to wear tires.

I'v had cars that I ran 2-3 degrees of camber on and had NO adverse tire wear on a car with properly set toe. I had a civic with a toe out issue and burned through a set of tires in about 7000 miles.
dkizerian is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2006, 11:44 AM   #15
chino1972
New Member
 
chino1972's Avatar
 
Drives: 325i SG
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: TX

Posts: 21
iTrader: (0)

So can anyone answer whether or not cambers are required if you drop your car? There are so many people saying they lowered their cars but no mention of camber adjustments. I spoke with a BMW rep and he was not sure if the E90 came with adjustable cambers. I have had problems in the past with bad tire wear and don't want to make that same mistake. Has anyone actually worried about cambers or did they all just lower the car and pray for no premature tire wear. You would think this was the first time anyone lowered their cars or this would be answered already!
chino1972 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2006, 12:01 PM   #16
ksfrogman
Major General
 
ksfrogman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torrance, CA

Posts: 6,751
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ksfrogman
Quote:
Originally Posted by chino1972
So can anyone answer whether or not cambers are required if you drop your car? There are so many people saying they lowered their cars but no mention of camber adjustments. I spoke with a BMW rep and he was not sure if the E90 came with adjustable cambers. I have had problems in the past with bad tire wear and don't want to make that same mistake. Has anyone actually worried about cambers or did they all just lower the car and pray for no premature tire wear. You would think this was the first time anyone lowered their cars or this would be answered already!
After I started this thread, it had become apparent that those who lowered their cars had had them aligned to readjust camber.
__________________
ksfrogman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2006, 01:08 PM   #17
HRC
MAUI BUILT
 
HRC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i MT
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NORCAL

Posts: 7,779
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to HRC
For Sport type springs with a minimal drop, camber kits are not required. For more agressive drops, they might be needed. Here are my specs after my alignment with H&R Sport Springs and Koni Shocks (if I had the race springs, I would've needed a camber kit):

Front Left:
Camber: -0.3"
Caster: 7.2"
Toe: 0.11"
SAI: 14.3
Included Angle: 14.0"

Front Right:
Camber: -0.7"
Caster: 7.2"
Toe: 0.11"
SAI: 14.4
Included Angle: 13.7"

Front:
Cross Camber: 0.4"
Cross Caster: 0.00"
Cross SAI: -0.1 Degree
Totall Toe: 0.22"

Rear Left:
Camber: -1.5"
Toe: 0.17"

Rear Right:
Camber: -1.6"
Toe: 0.17"

Rear:
Cross Camber: 0.1"
Total Toe: 0.34"
Thrust Angle: 0.00

The only thing that is not within factory specs is my front right camber, it's off by 0.1" from factory range which is 0.0 to -0.6.

Danny
__________________
Arctic/Blk Leather/Alum.Trim/MT/ZSP/Sunshades/Blk Lines/M3 Illuminated Knob/Alcantara Performance Wheel/M-E-Brake Handle/Euro Fog Switch/Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs/19" VMR V718's w/PS2 Tires/M-Tech Body Kit/Carbon Fiber Spoiler/Bimmian Interior Bulbs/OEM Eye Glass Tray/SSK/Alcantara Boot/Split Armrest/OEM Dual Rear Power Outlets/Rear Ashtray Delete/OEM Alum. Pedals/Osram 6000K/Brex Rings/LED Side Markers/BMS Power Box
HRC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2006, 05:08 PM   #18
chino1972
New Member
 
chino1972's Avatar
 
Drives: 325i SG
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: TX

Posts: 21
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRC
For Sport type springs with a minimal drop, camber kits are not required. Danny
Would this also apply for those non-sport packages as well?
chino1972 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2006, 05:42 PM   #19
HRC
MAUI BUILT
 
HRC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i MT
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NORCAL

Posts: 7,779
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to HRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by chino1972
Would this also apply for those non-sport packages as well?
I'm talking about H&R Sport springs or Eibach Pro-Kit springs not needing a camber kit compared to installing H&R Race or Eibach Sportline springs. It doesn't matter if your car has zsp or not.

Danny
__________________
Arctic/Blk Leather/Alum.Trim/MT/ZSP/Sunshades/Blk Lines/M3 Illuminated Knob/Alcantara Performance Wheel/M-E-Brake Handle/Euro Fog Switch/Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs/19" VMR V718's w/PS2 Tires/M-Tech Body Kit/Carbon Fiber Spoiler/Bimmian Interior Bulbs/OEM Eye Glass Tray/SSK/Alcantara Boot/Split Armrest/OEM Dual Rear Power Outlets/Rear Ashtray Delete/OEM Alum. Pedals/Osram 6000K/Brex Rings/LED Side Markers/BMS Power Box
HRC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2006, 05:55 PM   #20
chino1972
New Member
 
chino1972's Avatar
 
Drives: 325i SG
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: TX

Posts: 21
iTrader: (0)

So does anyone know if the non sport has the same type suspension in regards to zsp? I would think zsp has some upgrades but would that also include adjustable dampers or cambers? Lastly, has any non sport owners lowered their cars and only had alignment done to correct the problem ?
chino1972 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2006, 08:29 PM   #21
HRC
MAUI BUILT
 
HRC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i MT
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NORCAL

Posts: 7,779
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to HRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by chino1972
...So does anyone know if the non sport has the same type suspension in regards to zsp...
Umm...nope, different springs and shocks at the very least, could include bigger sway bars to, but neither the stock or zsp suspension has adjustable shocks. The both however how a range of camber adjustment for the rear. If you use H&R Sports or Eibach Pro-Kits, the stock adjustment range will correct too much negative camber. If you go with Race or Sportline springs, you may need a camber kit.

Danny
__________________
Arctic/Blk Leather/Alum.Trim/MT/ZSP/Sunshades/Blk Lines/M3 Illuminated Knob/Alcantara Performance Wheel/M-E-Brake Handle/Euro Fog Switch/Koni Yellows/H&R Sport Springs/19" VMR V718's w/PS2 Tires/M-Tech Body Kit/Carbon Fiber Spoiler/Bimmian Interior Bulbs/OEM Eye Glass Tray/SSK/Alcantara Boot/Split Armrest/OEM Dual Rear Power Outlets/Rear Ashtray Delete/OEM Alum. Pedals/Osram 6000K/Brex Rings/LED Side Markers/BMS Power Box
HRC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-02-2006, 05:02 PM   #22
db17k
Chicketeh china the chinese chicken, you have?
 
db17k's Avatar
 
Drives: 335ci hold out
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 790
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkizerian
This sounds like you just had a toe issue. Too much toe(in or out) will wear the inside edge of tires at a greatly accelerated rate, while too much negative camber will do very little to wear tires.

I'v had cars that I ran 2-3 degrees of camber on and had NO adverse tire wear on a car with properly set toe. I had a civic with a toe out issue and burned through a set of tires in about 7000 miles.

Good stuff, i'll look out for that next time
__________________
"In Soviet Russia car forks you!"

db17k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST