E90Post
 


MINHS Auto Care Center
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Official Learn To Drive Manual Cars Thread



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-21-2009, 06:12 PM   #331
!Xoible
Banned
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: .

Posts: 46,037
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 M3  [3.50]
2007 335i  [4.50]
2008 528i  [4.00]
2006 Infiniti - G35 ...  [4.00]
just below my toes
!Xoible is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2009, 06:35 PM   #332
I_can_drive_stick_now
Private
 
I_can_drive_stick_now's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dallas

Posts: 77
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
just below my toes
cool.. let me give that a try and see if it is better

thanks
I_can_drive_stick_now is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2009, 01:05 AM   #333
ho0haha
New Member
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

Thanks Mantis for starting this thread. Knowledge is power
ho0haha is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2009, 02:41 AM   #334
LA_BOOSTED
Private
 
LA_BOOSTED's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

haha cool thread. i wish i would have found a thread like this 3 years ago...

Cool info on the double clutch rev match downshift and single clutch rev match downshift.. i never tried the double or really understood the concept but its good to know its not really necessary as the new synchros are much stronger so the single works fine.
LA_BOOSTED is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2009, 02:01 AM   #335
trauma2020
Private
 
Drives: e92 328
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: socal

Posts: 81
iTrader: (0)

I've just started learning how to drive stick and while I have the basics down, I think my biggest problem is getting going from a stop in 1st.. I can do it slowly but I'd be pretty shaky if I had to do it on a hill or in heavy traffic.

Right now I've found the smoothest way (or only way without stalling) for me to get going so far is to release the clutch , wait for it to hit the engagement point and the car to start rolling a little bit, then i give it a little bit of gas and release the clutch all the way. Since this does take a little longer than I'd like, I was wonder if this is the correct way and I'm just not used to it yet, or if there was a better way to do it?

I watched the "gentle launch" video on page 2 of this thread and saw that the guy would give it gas and rev up to about 1000rpm and then simply just let out the clutch smoothly - kind of the opposite order of what I was doing but seems a little more straightforward. Is that a better / quicker way to get going?

Thanks

-edit: just thought of another question. I read this whole thread and a lot of the discussion was on rev matching on downshifts.... If you were slowing down to take a turn on a normal city street you wouldn't need to rev match do you? Because you are braking as you clutch in and select the lower gear, so by the time you let the clutch out you should be down to an appropriate speed for that gear at the rpms you were already going right?

Last edited by trauma2020; 01-28-2009 at 02:22 AM.
trauma2020 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2009, 08:17 PM   #336
BMWFanboy
Private
 
Drives: BMW 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: U.S.A.

Posts: 89
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trauma2020 View Post
-edit: just thought of another question. I read this whole thread and a lot of the discussion was on rev matching on downshifts.... If you were slowing down to take a turn on a normal city street you wouldn't need to rev match do you? Because you are braking as you clutch in and select the lower gear, so by the time you let the clutch out you should be down to an appropriate speed for that gear at the rpms you were already going right?
I've only been driving stick for 6 months now, but I've read a ton of stuff online. Unfortunately this thread seems to have died down, much to my dismay. As far as turns, it depends on the turn. For some turns you will slow down so much that you don't need to rev match, but for other turns you do have to rev match. Also, you should have the appropriate gear selected and the clutch engaged before you get into the turn. Heel and toe downshifts are really helpful for turns, but I am still trying to learn how to do them.

For a really good source of information, check out Standard Shift. There are a ton of good things to read there and people are very willing to help you.
BMWFanboy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2009, 02:19 AM   #337
trauma2020
Private
 
Drives: e92 328
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: socal

Posts: 81
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the link to standard shift, I think I was able to learn a lot from reading some threads over there
trauma2020 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2009, 06:02 PM   #338
BlueLux
New Member
 
Drives: BMW 318D Touring 2007
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway

Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)

I want to ask you guys for opinion about the way I downshift now:

I'm still trying to master heel-toe technique, but when I drive in the city, I tend to use my old way of shifting. Which is, for example, I'm in 4th coming to a corner, I brake, clutch in, shift into 3rd, keep braking, shift into 2nd when the speed is right, then declutch and accelerate. The reason I don't skip the 3rd is I think I reduce the work of the 2nd gear's synchro a bit, as I increase the speed of the flywheel in 3rd before going to 2nd. From 4th directly to 2nd can feel a bit rough. This way I know I'll wear off the clutch's "spring" a bit by holding it in all the time, but I guess clutching in and out of 3rd also puts a bit stress on it as well.

Do you guys think this is OK? Do I actually help the synchro at all by going into 3rd before 2nd?
BlueLux is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2009, 08:41 PM   #339
!Xoible
Banned
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: .

Posts: 46,037
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 M3  [3.50]
2007 335i  [4.50]
2008 528i  [4.00]
2006 Infiniti - G35 ...  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ho0haha View Post
Thanks Mantis for starting this thread. Knowledge is power
oh i always add value here
Quote:
Originally Posted by trauma2020 View Post
I've just started learning how to drive stick and while I have the basics down, I think my biggest problem is getting going from a stop in 1st.. I can do it slowly but I'd be pretty shaky if I had to do it on a hill or in heavy traffic.

Right now I've found the smoothest way (or only way without stalling) for me to get going so far is to release the clutch , wait for it to hit the engagement point and the car to start rolling a little bit, then i give it a little bit of gas and release the clutch all the way. Since this does take a little longer than I'd like, I was wonder if this is the correct way and I'm just not used to it yet, or if there was a better way to do it?

I watched the "gentle launch" video on page 2 of this thread and saw that the guy would give it gas and rev up to about 1000rpm and then simply just let out the clutch smoothly - kind of the opposite order of what I was doing but seems a little more straightforward. Is that a better / quicker way to get going?

Thanks

-edit: just thought of another question. I read this whole thread and a lot of the discussion was on rev matching on downshifts.... If you were slowing down to take a turn on a normal city street you wouldn't need to rev match do you? Because you are braking as you clutch in and select the lower gear, so by the time you let the clutch out you should be down to an appropriate speed for that gear at the rpms you were already going right?
but ur RPM's will be down to the idle which is less than 1k then has to go back up depending on which gear and what speed ur at. so do rev match
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLux View Post
I want to ask you guys for opinion about the way I downshift now:

I'm still trying to master heel-toe technique, but when I drive in the city, I tend to use my old way of shifting. Which is, for example, I'm in 4th coming to a corner, I brake, clutch in, shift into 3rd, keep braking, shift into 2nd when the speed is right, then declutch and accelerate. The reason I don't skip the 3rd is I think I reduce the work of the 2nd gear's synchro a bit, as I increase the speed of the flywheel in 3rd before going to 2nd. From 4th directly to 2nd can feel a bit rough. This way I know I'll wear off the clutch's "spring" a bit by holding it in all the time, but I guess clutching in and out of 3rd also puts a bit stress on it as well.

Do you guys think this is OK? Do I actually help the synchro at all by going into 3rd before 2nd?
hence my argument about double clutching
double clutch, u'll save ur synchros
!Xoible is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-22-2009, 06:17 PM   #340
Nr!qUe
Captain
 
Nr!qUe's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E90 LCI 328i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 974
iTrader: (3)

Send a message via MSN to Nr!qUe Send a message via Skype™ to Nr!qUe
Quote:
Originally Posted by txusa03 View Post
For coming to a stop, I do a similar technique as described by BK above with these exception. I usually drop the gear to 3rd and leave it in 3rd, kinda watch the RPM needle and pay very close attention to the RPM just when it is below 1K (so far up to this point I have not touched the brake-unless someone decided to switch lane right in front of me), then when it is time to really stop because the light is still red, I just press the clutch and brake at the same time and control the stopping motion with the brake. Probably why I have over 50K and my brakes looks like brand new

btw, my car does not shake when I am in 3rd gear and the rpm needle is just below the 1K marker as long as I control the gas and keep the RPM needle steadily right below the 1K mark.
I do the exact same thing. when the needle goes right under the 1000 rpm the engine starts to burn fuel again whereas it wasnt while the car was coasting in third gear. I see this because my MPG needle moves back out of the ending line past the 50.
__________________
2009 BMW E90 328i | Xenons | MT | Space Gray | Beige-ette | CF Fabric Trim | iPod/USB | 20% Tints | Euro-Plate | Rear Fog Switch Lego Mod | Painted Reflectors | Performance Short-shift Kit | Style 197 Wheels | OEM Sport Suspension | OEM Trunk Spoiler | Pioneer AVH4400BH -DVD
Nr!qUe is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-01-2009, 08:38 PM   #341
Remonster
Captain
 
Drives: M3 6MT VT2-625 - 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 933
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trauma2020 View Post
I've just started learning how to drive stick and while I have the basics down, I think my biggest problem is getting going from a stop in 1st.. I can do it slowly but I'd be pretty shaky if I had to do it on a hill or in heavy traffic.

Right now I've found the smoothest way (or only way without stalling) for me to get going so far is to release the clutch , wait for it to hit the engagement point and the car to start rolling a little bit, then i give it a little bit of gas and release the clutch all the way. Since this does take a little longer than I'd like, I was wonder if this is the correct way and I'm just not used to it yet, or if there was a better way to do it?

I watched the "gentle launch" video on page 2 of this thread and saw that the guy would give it gas and rev up to about 1000rpm and then simply just let out the clutch smoothly - kind of the opposite order of what I was doing but seems a little more straightforward. Is that a better / quicker way to get going?

Thanks

-edit: just thought of another question. I read this whole thread and a lot of the discussion was on rev matching on downshifts.... If you were slowing down to take a turn on a normal city street you wouldn't need to rev match do you? Because you are braking as you clutch in and select the lower gear, so by the time you let the clutch out you should be down to an appropriate speed for that gear at the rpms you were already going right?
To answer your first question, I use the same method as the video you mentioned: give it gas to about a thousand rpm and let the clutch out smoothly.

To answer your second question, I shift quickly all the time even when I'm just cruising smoothly and because of this I rev match all the time. Since I do it every downshift, I get a ton of practice. You don't really have to rev match but, as I said, I do it every time because it's better for the car and makes it smoother for my passengers. When you get it right, you can't feel the shifts at all.
Remonster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 07:03 PM   #342
NiVeDh
Major General
 
NiVeDh's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 335i 6MT BSM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, TX & Atlanta, GA

Posts: 7,987
iTrader: (132)

Garage List
Question: how do you shift from 1st to 2nd smoothly and quickly without the "pause" where the car coasts during the shift? When I do the 1-2 shift, slushbox drivers usually get dangerously close to my back.
NiVeDh is offline   India
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 07:09 PM   #343
!Xoible
Banned
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: .

Posts: 46,037
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 M3  [3.50]
2007 335i  [4.50]
2008 528i  [4.00]
2006 Infiniti - G35 ...  [4.00]
stop smoking weed. you will do everything much faster
!Xoible is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 07:39 PM   #344
kenneth
Major General
 
kenneth's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

Posts: 8,594
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiVeDh View Post
Question: how do you shift from 1st to 2nd smoothly and quickly without the "pause" where the car coasts during the shift? When I do the 1-2 shift, slushbox drivers usually get dangerously close to my back.
When you clutch in while releasing the throttle and putting in 2nd gear, make sure your right foot maintain contact with the accelerator with a tiny bit of pressure. That way when you throttle in, while you clutch out there will be less time in between and Voilą!

Also make sure you ease into the first part of the throttle, then press farther. Don't mash it in.

Hope I am being clear.
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
kenneth is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2009, 12:15 AM   #345
NiVeDh
Major General
 
NiVeDh's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 335i 6MT BSM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, TX & Atlanta, GA

Posts: 7,987
iTrader: (132)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by !Xoible View Post
stop smoking weed. you will do everything much faster
Haha I've never touched that stuff. I'm slow enough as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
When you clutch in while releasing the throttle and putting in 2nd gear, make sure your right foot maintain contact with the accelerator with a tiny bit of pressure. That way when you throttle in, while you clutch out there will be less time in between and Voilą!

Also make sure you ease into the first part of the throttle, then press farther. Don't mash it in.

Hope I am being clear.
Is it normal for it to feel like I'm forcing the shifter into 2nd? There's a "chunky" sound when I do it - no grinding though. What's the ideal RPM to shift from 1st for it to be both smooth and fast and not jerky? Should I shift to 2nd immediately after getting moving or wait til I'm at 10-15 mph or 3k RPM?

Ideally I want to be able to shift like a slushbox, if not smoother and just as fast. 8ms DCT shifts, here I come!!! Just kidding.
NiVeDh is offline   India
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2009, 06:25 AM   #346
kenneth
Major General
 
kenneth's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

Posts: 8,594
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiVeDh View Post
Haha I've never touched that stuff. I'm slow enough as it is.



Is it normal for it to feel like I'm forcing the shifter into 2nd? There's a "chunky" sound when I do it - no grinding though. What's the ideal RPM to shift from 1st for it to be both smooth and fast and not jerky? Should I shift to 2nd immediately after getting moving or wait til I'm at 10-15 mph or 3k RPM?

Ideally I want to be able to shift like a slushbox, if not smoother and just as fast. 8ms DCT shifts, here I come!!! Just kidding.
It takes practice to time the clutch and throttle, hard to explain! But you should be able to shift smoothly at any rpms, at higher rpms what I mentioned becomes increasingly important!
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
kenneth is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2009, 06:35 PM   #347
xtac
Alpine White Knight
 
xtac's Avatar
 
Drives: AW 335i M sport
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island

Posts: 682
iTrader: (2)

noob problems i'm having like most

-- I keep my foot on the clutch even after changing the gears.
-- The harest is starting the car, that 1st gear clutch/gas ratio is so dreaded the each stall takes away your man hood.


Let's say your in 5th gear, and you see the light turning red, right now I brake a bit than go straight to neutral for a complete stop. Than put it in first gear and try to start(this is where I stall)

I do keep my foot on the clutch when reversing for some reason, gotta fix that.

another q, let's say you just switch from 3rd to 4th and you need to make a turn on a normal st, I go from 4th to 2nd, I skip 3rd apply the brake and hit the gas.


All in all it's been really a pain, I have yet to take it on a really busy day(bumper to bumper)

btw I'm learning on a 93 honda before taking delivery of a e92 shortly
xtac is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-27-2009, 11:16 PM   #348
NiVeDh
Major General
 
NiVeDh's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 335i 6MT BSM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, TX & Atlanta, GA

Posts: 7,987
iTrader: (132)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
It takes practice to time the clutch and throttle, hard to explain! But you should be able to shift smoothly at any rpms, at higher rpms what I mentioned becomes increasingly important!
I used your suggestions today and it helped a lot! Thanks! Keeping my foot slightly on the gas while shifting makes everything smoother.
NiVeDh is offline   India
0
Reply With Quote
      05-28-2009, 12:01 AM   #349
kenneth
Major General
 
kenneth's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

Posts: 8,594
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiVeDh View Post
I used your suggestions today and it helped a lot! Thanks! Keeping my foot slightly on the gas while shifting makes everything smoother.
Great! Have fun....
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
kenneth is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-28-2009, 07:50 PM   #350
xtac
Alpine White Knight
 
xtac's Avatar
 
Drives: AW 335i M sport
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island

Posts: 682
iTrader: (2)

So I took the car out during slight traffic, rain and darkness. Not too bad till I hit the a busy drive thru. I stalled like 10x. I didn't think of any other way than keep putting it in neutral than once I got enough room in front of me to not the damn car I put it into first and go. Problem was I kept releasing the clutch to fast because i had to brake so I would not hit the other car. At one point I even rolled back a bit.

How does everyone else do a busy drive thru?
xtac is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-28-2009, 08:56 PM   #351
kenneth
Major General
 
kenneth's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

Posts: 8,594
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtac View Post
So I took the car out during slight traffic, rain and darkness. Not too bad till I hit the a busy drive thru. I stalled like 10x. I didn't think of any other way than keep putting it in neutral than once I got enough room in front of me to not the damn car I put it into first and go. Problem was I kept releasing the clutch to fast because i had to brake so I would not hit the other car. At one point I even rolled back a bit.

How does everyone else do a busy drive thru?
You need a coach ASAP! Always release the clutch slowly for first gear. To practice this get to a parking lot which is flat. Put in 1st gear, and let clutch out very slowly, you don't even need to use throttle, the car will move and will not stall. Once you get this down a few times, then next doing the same thing (letting clutch out slowly), squeeze ever so gently on the throttle...and there you go.

letting out the clutch fast is only good for upper gears or when you are in full acceleration mode and not in traffic. In traffic, always gently clutch out AND throttle in gently.
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
kenneth is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2009, 12:13 AM   #352
BMWFanboy
Private
 
Drives: BMW 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: U.S.A.

Posts: 89
iTrader: (0)

I highly recommend Standardshift.com. Make sure to check out their FAQs and the forums too. There are ridiculously knowledgeable people there. Some of the things said here are bad for your clutch.
BMWFanboy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST