E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Got my boost gauge installed and working right...crazy sh*t!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-27-2008, 02:41 PM   #67
michsu
Second Lieutenant
 
michsu's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i e90
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 280
iTrader: (0)

scalbert, are you also on JB2? What do you think of the boost on that compared to the Procede? I see that people are getting a constant 15psi, so that seems to be good..
michsu is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 02:45 PM   #68
down4it
Banned
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,743
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Hrmm, you sure about this? Since Terry is attenuating the TMAP signal to give a raise in boost, it is not a setpoint. I am going to run this by Terry as I was sure it was an adjustment to the signal but could be wrong.
Ask Terry he will explain to you how it works, he told me but i am not the designer so im sure you will get a better explanation from him. I have drivin in 45 degree weather to yesterdays 78 degrees and boost stays the same on the JB. I would wonder why a product like the procede being expensive as it is and complex cannot handle a function like this that would make it so much better... I mean who wants to hit up the CPU everytime the weather changes. I have lost races and then found myself saying, oh if i had my laptop in the car i could raise boost and blah blah blah...
down4it is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 02:57 PM   #69
scalbert
Major General
 
scalbert's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posts: 5,710
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Ask Terry he will explain to you how it works, he told me but i am not the designer so im sure you will get a better explanation from him. I have drivin in 45 degree weather to yesterdays 78 degrees and boost stays the same on the JB. I would wonder why a product like the procede being expensive as it is and complex cannot handle a function like this that would make it so much better... I mean who wants to hit up the CPU everytime the weather changes. I have lost races and then found myself saying, oh if i had my laptop in the car i could raise boost and blah blah blah...
I understand how it works and Terry is either providing a fixed output or a variable one. I dropped him a PM to confirm though.

Please remember, a stock vehicle changes boost pressure based on temperature and ambient pressure. This is to help maintain the same power at all times. By adjusting boost for ambient conditions causes you to have a greater swing between warmer and cooler weather. What you will find is that 15 PSI in 100 degree heat will feel a lot slower than 40 degrees. Granted, there is more power to be had by upping the boost in cooler weather, but that is a letdown when it gets warm.

It isn't a design flaw; it is a perspective of how it should work. By basing targets on load and not just pressure, consistent power is made; albeit, maybe not the greatest potential considering the conditions. This is how the factory does it and I believe that was the intent with the PROcede.

Didn't you own a B5 S4? If so, it was also load based and all tuners; GIAC, APR, ASP, etc. targeted MAF readings and not actual boost. This is why, baring the use of a MBC, boost changed from summer to winter on this vehicle too. Heck, the mid to early '90's RX-7 was also load based way back when. Cars have not been purely boost control since the very first turbo vehicles, that is unless they went to a MBC.
scalbert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 02:59 PM   #70
Vince@ V K Motorwerks
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Vince@ V K Motorwerks's Avatar
 
Drives: 01 Black 911 Turbo, 09 X5
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomingdale, IL

Posts: 1,739
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Ask Terry he will explain to you how it works, he told me but i am not the designer so im sure you will get a better explanation from him. I have drivin in 45 degree weather to yesterdays 78 degrees and boost stays the same on the JB. I would wonder why a product like the procede being expensive as it is and complex cannot handle a function like this that would make it so much better... I mean who wants to hit up the CPU everytime the weather changes. I have lost races and then found myself saying, oh if i had my laptop in the car i could raise boost and blah blah blah...
Your sig says you have V2 and jb2hr? Which one are you running?
Vince@ V K Motorwerks is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:21 PM   #71
down4it
Banned
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,743
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
I understand how it works and Terry is either providing a fixed output or a variable one. I dropped him a PM to confirm though.

Please remember, a stock vehicle changes boost pressure based on temperature and ambient pressure. This is to help maintain the same power at all times. By adjusting boost for ambient conditions causes you to have a greater swing between warmer and cooler weather. What you will find is that 15 PSI in 100 degree heat will feel a lot slower than 40 degrees. Granted, there is more power to be had by upping the boost in cooler weather, but that is a letdown when it gets warm.

It isn't a design flaw; it is a perspective of how it should work. By basing targets on load and not just pressure, consistent power is made; albeit, maybe not the greatest potential considering the conditions. This is how the factory does it and I believe that was the intent with the PROcede.

Didn't you own a B5 S4? If so, it was also load based and all tuners; GIAC, APR, ASP, etc. targeted MAF readings and not actual boost. This is why, baring the use of a MBC, boost changed from summer to winter on this vehicle too. Heck, the mid to early '90's RX-7 was also load based way back when. Cars have not been purely boost control since the very first turbo vehicles, that is unless they went to a MBC.
I understand what you are saying. Like you said though, the benifits of running higher boost in cooler weather, i do most of my driving at night when its cool. But when i pull the car out during the day i would have to lower the UT settings to not spike. I am just saying that its annoying to have to connect to the procede everytime there is a change in the weather. I bought a laptop just for the procede that i was keeping in my car hooked up at all times while i was running the procede.

I had a B6 S4... No turbos in that big ol' car.lol.
down4it is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:21 PM   #72
scalbert
Major General
 
scalbert's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posts: 5,710
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Ask Terry he will explain to you how it works, he told me but i am not the designer so im sure you will get a better explanation from him. I have drivin in 45 degree weather to yesterdays 78 degrees and boost stays the same on the JB.
If you are running the R switch, you are correct. If you are not, you are incorrect. Based on what you said, you are driving around with the R switch on and running higher octane fuel?

Anyway, here is what I got from Terry. I was referring to the JBS2 with and without an H pill:

Quote:
The JB2 will raise and lower boost based on ambient temperature and altitude, but if the R switch is on boost is locked.

The R switch maxes out the ECU's internal boost correction factor (by altering the IAT reading) and thus takes away the ECU's ability to add boost as ambient temperatures rise. This is actually a very good thing, otherwise you wind up with wild boost swings with even minor temperature changes. It's also why I can run ~15-16 psi while letting the ECU still run the solenoids.
scalbert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:22 PM   #73
down4it
Banned
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,743
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitown335i View Post
Your sig says you have V2 and jb2hr? Which one are you running?
Im running the JB cause i was having issues with the procede...
down4it is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:29 PM   #74
Vince@ V K Motorwerks
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Vince@ V K Motorwerks's Avatar
 
Drives: 01 Black 911 Turbo, 09 X5
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomingdale, IL

Posts: 1,739
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by down4it View Post
Im running the JB cause i was having issues with the procede...
Interesting. So what gave you the 370WHP?
Vince@ V K Motorwerks is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:38 PM   #75
down4it
Banned
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,743
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitown335i View Post
Interesting. So what gave you the 370WHP?
Procede V2 at 94% with 94oct and all of my mods... Boost was spiking all over the place on the dyno but that was the end result. 370whp and 445wtq SAE corrected.
down4it is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 03:44 PM   #76
Acuracy
SAYPL335
 
Drives: 2007 335 Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salisbury, NYC

Posts: 2,242
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
Unfortunately I am too I believe, I want to see shiv release the downpipe map and everything work perfectly but I'm not waiting anymore. boost gauge will be installed this week and Attache next w their downpipe map which will be finished by then. Custom tuned on their own dyno will always beat an off the shelf map.
Yea im with you guys. Im getting the Attache as well and going to put the procede aside for now until the issues are ironed out. Plus im getting dps, i already have a fmic so the attache already tuned for the mods will definitely outperform my v2 that isnt tuned for anything.

I think as more and more people are getting more mods (ie dps, intake, fmic's) we are having more people drifitng away from the procede because of the lack of maps for the mods. I hope shiv sees this because no one wants to spend all this money on mods and to have the car spike to 20psi and not perform to its full potential. I was always a procede believer but its not that i dont like it, i just want my car running right with the mods i have. Simple as that.
__________________


Acuracy is offline   Guyana
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 04:08 PM   #77
Vince@ V K Motorwerks
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Vince@ V K Motorwerks's Avatar
 
Drives: 01 Black 911 Turbo, 09 X5
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomingdale, IL

Posts: 1,739
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acuracy View Post
Yea im with you guys. Im getting the Attache as well and going to put the procede aside for now until the issues are ironed out. Plus im getting dps, i already have a fmic so the attache already tuned for the mods will definitely outperform my v2 that isnt tuned for anything.

I think as more and more people are getting more mods (ie dps, intake, fmic's) we are having more people drifitng away from the procede because of the lack of maps for the mods. I hope shiv sees this because no one wants to spend all this money on mods and to have the car spike to 20psi and not perform to its full potential. I was always a procede believer but its not that i dont like it, i just want my car running right with the mods i have. Simple as that.
It will be nice once we have the V2+mods as stable as the V1.47.
Vince@ V K Motorwerks is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 04:14 PM   #78
Acuracy
SAYPL335
 
Drives: 2007 335 Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salisbury, NYC

Posts: 2,242
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitown335i View Post
It will be nice once we have the V2+mods as stable as the V1.47.
yea that would be freakin great. I guess its only a matter of time, but the question is how much time.
__________________


Acuracy is offline   Guyana
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 04:50 PM   #79
335lvr
Major
 
335lvr's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California

Posts: 1,441
iTrader: (4)

__________________
"I'm not sure what the price difference is, but the BMW feels $15,000 better." -Edmunds, 2007
335lvr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 05:05 PM   #80
BoostedBMW
Moderator
 
BoostedBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: TiAg E92 335
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 6,787
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to BoostedBMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
EVERYONE that tunes a turbo car needs a boost gauge...
+1... they are cheap enough. I have no idea why anyone wouldn't want to verify the boost they are running when they mod their cars.
__________________
-Michael.
Berlina Black S2000 CR is now in the garage

l 19" Rial Daytona Race l KW V2 l Eisenhaus Race Exhaust l
BoostedBMW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 05:31 PM   #81
tomtom
Captain
 
tomtom's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ontario

Posts: 986
iTrader: (4)

how much would it cost for a boost guage installed?
tomtom is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 05:33 PM   #82
scalbert
Major General
 
scalbert's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posts: 5,710
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
how much would it cost for a boost guage installed?
If by a shop, I would guess about $100.
scalbert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 05:47 PM   #83
retrodrive
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 1,938
iTrader: (8)

I like Proceede...it has been working out well for me. I will stay with it unless I upgrade to bigger turbo setup where I would need some kind of custom tune. Otherwise, there are not many mods that need to be supported on our cars. We need maps for combination of IC,DP and Intake and thats about it. I don't think it would be long till those are out.

Once thing though...hitting 20psi is screwed up.
retrodrive is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 08:08 PM   #84
midlife
ocasionally in crisis
 
midlife's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i cabrio
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ..........

Posts: 2,359
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Hrmm, you sure about this? Since Terry is attenuating the TMAP signal to give a raise in boost, it is not a setpoint. I am going to run this by Terry as I was sure it was an adjustment to the signal but could be wrong.
...very interesting question.
regardles of the answer, i would be curious to know which way would be best? a set point, or psi adjustment according to conditions.
__________________
If your car isn't scary - it's just not fast enough !
RPI IC / UR catless DPs / JB3 2.0 beta / UR CAI / Quaife LSD / Snow Methanol Injection / VK oil cooler upgrade / Forge DVs /
M3 rear sway / Riss catch can / Paddle shifting 6AT / M Sport steering wheel / Logic 7 / Dunlop Direzza Z1 255/235 /
midlife is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 08:20 PM   #85
scalbert
Major General
 
scalbert's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posts: 5,710
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
...very interesting question.
regardles of the answer, i would be curious to know which way would be best? a set point, or psi adjustment according to conditions.
Which is right, just look to the majority of the implementations including the OEM's; they are all load based.

And her was the response:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=72
scalbert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 08:29 PM   #86
2007_E93
Captain
 
Drives: ?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ?

Posts: 604
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Screw that, tell me what you tapped to get a headlight switched power in the cabin.

I tapped the fuse box for the ignition switched power.
OFF TOPIC but,...I'm pretty sure it's fuse #61. I was playing around to hook up an LED in my center arm rest and only wanted it on when lights were on.
2007_E93 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 09:05 PM   #87
LambOfGod
Lieutenant
 
LambOfGod's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 Red Sedan
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 571
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitown335i View Post
Okay maybe people are not getting the point. Your not running a simple tune here. V2 isn't simple by any means, this is why the Tq values are implemented in the first place. It allows for you to watch your cars behavior, air temp, octane and adjust accordingly. I think my boost was showing so high before at 94% because the temps in Chicago are in the 10's, 20's, and 30's people in cali are seeing 60,70,80's You have to have a boost gauge so you can figure out how to dial in your correct tq values given your location, temps, and all other factors. I am pleased with the tune.

Just a side note i dont think Shiv is going anywhere, I am in touch with him as is many other procede users, and he has something that he is working on that may change the way you currently feel about him and his product.

Seriously we need to stop the BS tuner wars, we are not getting anywhere like that. I can care less how much money terry, shiv, aa,... make All I care for is my ride being as fast and reliable as possible. You feel me!

I believe Shiv already advised folks to turn down their UT level to 80% if they are running DP's until he launches a new map. I think the problem is that you sort of need to pick one tuner and use only his modes because he is only going to support his set-up. Too bad there isn't a Tuner out there like maybe Dinan or Turner that would put entire packages together in Stage I, Stage II, and Stage III. Our suppliers are missing the boat...don't you think.

When I owned my S4 B5 Audi a company by the name of APR had beautiful packages from Stage I to Stage III and a price point that people could pick from and it was great. Each Stage was tested and worked beautifully. When are we going to get a supplier that is going to take the bull by the horns and make this happen. We need complete systems NOT pieces of systems.
LambOfGod is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #88
LambOfGod
Lieutenant
 
LambOfGod's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 Red Sedan
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Michigan

Posts: 571
iTrader: (0)

Shiv is obviously not reading this forum any more...why don't we just start calling him and leaving messages about the new maps?
LambOfGod is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST