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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Free Power (charcoal filter removal)



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      02-25-2006, 04:55 PM   #111
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i took apart the airbox and found the charcoal to be practically glued on the the plastic frame. is there a safe way or removing it without shredding the filter into a tons of pieces? thanks!
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      02-26-2006, 12:18 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by E90hawaii
i took apart the airbox and found the charcoal to be practically glued on the the plastic frame. is there a safe way or removing it without shredding the filter into a tons of pieces? thanks!
Has it occurred to you that the charcoal filter is not intended for removal/replacement? It is there for a purpose. BMW has a pretty good engineering department and I seriously doubt that shade tree mechanics can improve the performance by removing a component of the intake system.
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      02-26-2006, 12:22 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Has it occurred to you that the charcoal filter is not intended for removal/replacement? It is there for a purpose. BMW has a pretty good engineering department and I seriously doubt that shade tree mechanics can improve the performance by removing a component of the intake system.
Does that mean their great engineering dept. should be thanked for the improved performance of such things as run-flats, CDV, and lack of a proper LSD?
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      02-26-2006, 12:38 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Has it occurred to you that the charcoal filter is not intended for removal/replacement? It is there for a purpose. BMW has a pretty good engineering department and I seriously doubt that shade tree mechanics can improve the performance by removing a component of the intake system.
Like I said before, these cars are NOT tuned for maximum performance. These cars are not only built with performance in mind, but also safety, noise reduction, comfort, etc etc that restricts performance aspects in a way.

Yes, they built with total balance in mind, but not for maximum performance. If they did, these cars will be loud as those F1 cars, and ride rough as hell.

thats why there are room for performance improvement for every street driven cars, even porsches, M3s, etc.
When a vehicle is created for the STREET, they always have to keep mind the huge factor called "daily driven".

Ok, im going to far with just a charcoal removal. but if you understand anything about car engineering and how performance can be improved, you'll be surprised how easy it is to improve it sometimes.

Good example would be one of the things Visor pointed out.
Your cars handling capability can be improved just by replacing your RFTs. "Wise engineers" in BMW thought RFT is such a great contact patch, 99% of the customers in this forum are complaining about it including me. Anyone with a brain would know if they are going to get serious with handling in our E90s, RFTs are the first ones to replace.
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      02-26-2006, 03:04 AM   #115
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I don't get it.. you guys are doing this for MAYBE 2-3hp.. why? Even if it was 5 (which I'll bet money it's not) that's not an amount of power you will EVER feel a difference of. Unless you're turning your car into an all out race machine, stripping the inside completely and will be beating the piss out of the motor around a road course, the extra ounce of power means squat. Why damage a part that costs several hundred bucks and could void your warranty? If any difference is to be had, it's all in your head.
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      02-26-2006, 08:31 AM   #116
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Don't Do This!! I sucked a bird in thru my grill, and it went straight though the flimsy filter, past where my charcoal filter used to be, and into my engine. BMW voided my warranty for everything except the power seats now, and I have a 12k repair bill.










:P
LOL!!! This thread has gotten hilarious.

btw, there is better throttle response. I find it funny the people who have no experience in doing this exact modification are the experts. "Well on paper".... blah blah blah...

Oh.. one more thing. I just took a 400 mile trip up to Vermont (which I've done a few times in the past in this car). I got 31mpg average. I ususually get 28.5 or so. I don't know if this mod helped in that figure (I certainly didnt baby the car any more), but I would think it is a likely contributor.
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      02-26-2006, 09:04 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visor
Does that mean their great engineering dept. should be thanked for the improved performance of such things as run-flats, CDV, and lack of a proper LSD?
In a word, yes. <g> However, marketing considerations, of necessity play a major role.
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      02-26-2006, 09:11 AM   #118
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[quote=lux.sh]Like I said before, these cars are NOT tuned for maximum performance. These cars are not only built with performance in mind, but also safety, noise reduction, comfort, etc etc that restricts performance aspects in a way.

Yes, they built with total balance in mind, but not for maximum performance. If they did, these cars will be loud as those F1 cars, and ride rough as hell.

thats why there are room for performance improvement for every street driven cars, even porsches, M3s, etc.
When a vehicle is created for the STREET, they always have to keep mind the huge factor called "daily driven".

Ok, im going to far with just a charcoal removal. but if you understand anything about car engineering and how performance can be improved, you'll be surprised how easy it is to improve it sometimes.

Agreed that there is room for performance improvement. However, there are tradeoffs. Simply removing a part or replacing a single part seldom accomplishes anything positive. Did you ever notice that the advertisements for performance farkles usually includes a statement on the order of, "up to 5% gain..." or "up to 5 hp increase?"
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      02-26-2006, 09:13 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus
I don't get it.. you guys are doing this for MAYBE 2-3hp.. why? Even if it was 5 (which I'll bet money it's not) that's not an amount of power you will EVER feel a difference of. Unless you're turning your car into an all out race machine, stripping the inside completely and will be beating the piss out of the motor around a road course, the extra ounce of power means squat. Why damage a part that costs several hundred bucks and could void your warranty? If any difference is to be had, it's all in your head.
I agree completely. This is a feel good modification that may harm the enviornment and may place the vehicle owner in violation of law or regulation.
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      02-26-2006, 10:02 AM   #120
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What do you think chips/intakes/aftermarket exhausts do?
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      02-26-2006, 10:37 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz
I just did it and got extra 50HP!!! No need to trade my 330i for a 335! A DIY coming up soon...

Great!!! I'm removing the charcoal filter as well. LOL!!!!

I live in California and I drive a stick...2-5 hp gains will not be noticeable and I'm pretty happy with the throttle response right now. Maybe for those who drive an auto might notice the response.

My inkling is to do a full intake mod rather than this one(coming from someone who did a cheapie CDV mod). But to each his own. I respect the guts of those who did it.....My only concern is how to put it back since it sounds like you are destroying it in the removal process....just in case I get caught by a smog patrol in CA.
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      02-26-2006, 10:59 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni


What do you think chips/intakes/aftermarket exhausts do?
Can't honestly say without data. I would venture a guess that none of the items listed will improve performance (without tradeoffs or side effects) individually. In concert, and assuming they are matched to each other, this might be a different story.

Tuning is much more than adding and subtracting parts.
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      02-26-2006, 11:51 AM   #123
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Stock exhaust manifolds are often very restrictive as are non-mandrel bent exhaust piping. It would be interesting to see some performance data on the 3er or get feedback from some M3 owners. Since BMW's target market includes a niche of car enthusiasts who are interested in performance, I'm curious to know more about the baseline stock systems.

Extrude hone was a company that once would "extrude" cast aluminum runners on intake manifolds for smoother induction. This was a lot of money spent relative to neglible performance gained.

I realized that when I started having serious cylinder head modification, specialized valve work, boring and stroking motors on older cars, all this talk about adding different air filters was like telling a long distance runner to shave his legs to reduce resistance.

The compression ratio for the e90 is 10.7:1, which reminds me of some of the muscle cars of the late 60s/early 70s. In time, I'd like to see someone do some serious, but methodical and calculated modification to their e90. At the very least, the addition of quality headers with an adequate flange thickness that would reduce the need to replace the header gasket every so often, along with tuned exhaust. Yet, with the cost of BMW aftermarket mufflers already in the 1K+ range, I shudder to think what a complete system from block to tip would cost.
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      02-26-2006, 05:36 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
Agreed that there is room for performance improvement. However, there are tradeoffs. Simply removing a part or replacing a single part seldom accomplishes anything positive. Did you ever notice that the advertisements for performance farkles usually includes a statement on the order of, "up to 5% gain..." or "up to 5 hp increase?"
Yes, there are gains that can be expected just by removing parts, and adding different parts, depending on what kind of application. For example, for F/I applications, if stock exhaust piping is 2.25in, just simply replacing it to 2.5~3.0in, and adding a boost controller to raise the boost will get you ALOT of hp/tq.

I don't get your point of "advertisement". What kind of idiot go for the advertisement figure when buying tuning parts? You look at dynos to see the real gains. You talk to other people who has those parts, make sure they are satisfied and saw good enoguh power gains, etc.

You say "Tuning is much more than adding and subtracting parts.", it sounds like you don't quite understand the whole concept of tuning. Tuning is not always messing with ecu program or A&F calibration. Sometimes, simply removing restrictive stock parts for more free flow aftermarket parts that has gone through extensive R&D by a trustworthy manufacturer will give you good amount of power gains. These parts ARE tuned from the manufacturers.

No offense to you, really ben. You are a cool guy.
but also very typical. One of those "tuning is stupid" people. I suggest you stay out of this thread because it'll stress you. Some people just don't get the point and will never understand.
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      02-26-2006, 06:14 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Yes, there are gains that can be expected just by removing parts, and adding different parts, depending on what kind of application. For example, for F/I applications, if stock exhaust piping is 2.25in, just simply replacing it to 2.5~3.0in, and adding a boost controller to raise the boost will get you ALOT of hp/tq.

I don't get your point of "advertisement". What kind of idiot go for the advertisement figure when buying tuning parts? You look at dynos to see the real gains. You talk to other people who has those parts, make sure they are satisfied and saw good enoguh power gains, etc.

You say "Tuning is much more than adding and subtracting parts.", it sounds like you don't quite understand the whole concept of tuning. Tuning is not always messing with ecu program or A&F calibration. Sometimes, simply removing restrictive stock parts for more free flow aftermarket parts that has gone through extensive R&D by a trustworthy manufacturer will give you good amount of power gains. These parts ARE tuned from the manufacturers.

No offense to you, really ben. You are a cool guy.
but also very typical. One of those "tuning is stupid" people. I suggest you stay out of this thread because it'll stress you. Some people just don't get the point and will never understand.
You are correct. I know nothing about tuning. As a matter of fact, I know nothing about automobiles in general. From now on, I shall believe everything I read. I will go buy a set of Split Fire Spark plugs, and a K & N drop in air filter element along with Whalen Shift Machine to take advantage of the massive 1.1 HP increase from the plugs and oil wetted filter element. BTW, are you intending to dyno your vehicle before and after adding aftermarket parts, on the same dyno, on the same day, under the same atmospheric pressures?

Last edited by ben1364; 02-26-2006 at 06:16 PM. Reason: addition
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      02-26-2006, 07:15 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
You are correct. I know nothing about tuning. As a matter of fact, I know nothing about automobiles in general. From now on, I shall believe everything I read. I will go buy a set of Split Fire Spark plugs, and a K & N drop in air filter element along with Whalen Shift Machine to take advantage of the massive 1.1 HP increase from the plugs and oil wetted filter element. BTW, are you intending to dyno your vehicle before and after adding aftermarket parts, on the same dyno, on the same day, under the same atmospheric pressures?
I tried to be nice, but obviously your sarcasm indicates that you are offended.

You go ahead and spend some on spark plugs and drop in air filter and enjoy 1.1hp. Thats a very WISE decision.
If you think "tuning" is replacing spark plugs and dropping in a air filter, go ahead. whatever floats your boat.

I can clearly tell all your cars will be stock for rest of your life. nothing wrong with that.
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      02-26-2006, 08:12 PM   #127
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While I appreciate the above debate, I have two relevant questions that will help me decide on this mod:

1. Given the European 330's do not have this charcoal filter, do they have a different ECU part number and/or different mapping than US bound 330's?

2. If not, are there any other relevant differences between Euro 330's without filter vs US 330's
with filter?

If the answer is no to both questions, then I'm doing this mod. Can anybody address this? Not looking for speculation, just factual, knowlegeable, answers. Thanks!

Edit: By the way I'm not necessarily concerned abut the "extra" horespower this may or may not yield. I'm looking for better throttle response. To me that would be the real benefit of this mod (ification...fyi)

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      02-26-2006, 08:18 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
I tried to be nice, but obviously your sarcasm indicates that you are offended.

You go ahead and spend some on spark plugs and drop in air filter and enjoy 1.1hp. Thats a very WISE decision.
If you think "tuning" is replacing spark plugs and dropping in a air filter, go ahead. whatever floats your boat.

I can clearly tell all your cars will be stock for rest of your life. nothing wrong with that.
Before I install miracle plugs and an antique (technology) air filter element, me, I'm a gonna rip the charcoal filter outa my Bee M Dubya. Then I'm gona drive down to the beer joint and regale the boys with how much horsepower I gained from my "mods". After impreessing the 'boys', I'm gonna donate all my tools to charity. Don't need 'em since learnin that Y don't know anything abour cars. Thanks for the hep, lux.
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      02-26-2006, 11:39 PM   #129
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no problem ben. as long as people learn.
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      02-27-2006, 02:09 AM   #130
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sorry to stir up so much debate, but no one has answered how to properly removed the charcoal filter. do i slice out filter with a knife at the edges or can i remove the filter without destroying it. help please, thanks!
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      02-27-2006, 02:46 AM   #131
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Whoa lux, buddy. Are you intending to be offensive? I can see ben's point, and I can see yours. There's no need for the snideness.
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      02-27-2006, 04:30 AM   #132
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Whoa lux, buddy. Are you intending to be offensive? I can see ben's point, and I can see yours. There's no need for the snideness.
Not really, if you take it offensively, you are being way too personal.
After all, he did start the sarcasm saying tuning involves replacing spark plugs and dropping in an air filter.
Im sure he knew thats not what I meant. I've seen his posts before, and he is a very smart guy, well informed about cars.

Attitudes are attitudes, this is internet. No reason to be so serious about it.
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