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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu PROcede evo X



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      04-02-2008, 12:05 PM   #45
hotrod2448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335lvr View Post
LOL, hope you're joking, right? How old are you?
There are some days I share his sentiment. It wasn't a nice way to say it for sure though. Coming from the Evo community most of those guys are gear heads who know a good bit about their car and work on it themselves and don't consider tint a mod.

It does get a little tiring reading some of these posts from people who have no idea what goes into making a part for a car but, saying how it should be done and what it should cost or some of the "problems" that are completely self inflicted or how ridiculously fast their V2, JB, Dinan, etc.. car is.

The Evo community is just different then the BMW community.

Example: Within the first 2 weeks of delivery of the X several shops already had exhausts out, vishnu had a tune in progress, AMS had the freaking head off in preparation for port and polishing along with IC upgrades and piping and one of the NJ shops had already burned the clutch out of theirs at the drag strip. Just a different mentality.
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      04-02-2008, 12:14 PM   #46
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EDIT ***I thought Dustin's response was insulting, but Shiv's was fair. You don't know where I come from or anything about me, don't assume I'm an idiot. All I said was see the price compared to the 335i's, I didn't rant or rave in that post.***

I don't want to derail the thread, I was just pointing out the price difference. I won't go into my exact thoughts on it, but...

I work with computers and have worked with tuning Mustangs in the past. I also have a bachelor's in Bussiness, which I have analyzed products from creation to death a million times over. I understand more R&D equals more cost. If I'm not mistaken it is the same procede in both cars, so that equipment cost is the same. I do understand the purchase of a 335i is more than an EVO. I do understand that if the EVO is easier to tune than the BMW, that the cost will be lower. I do know what I am talking about, but also understand you can do whatever you want with your business.

I also know that the longer a product is out the less it costs to make and as you spend less R&D on a product as the product matures, aka not spending nearly the time tuning the car than at the beginging. Your arguement of that it was 2 years for the BMW and seems to be a couple months or so for the EVO, means the EVO procede should be about $200. Since there is so much less time spent on it. I guess my base point is, at what point does the procede for BMW start dropping in price. No I don't expect it to be free, nor do I expect you to lose money.

I'm not here to piss off Vishnu, since I do like their product and research from what I have seen on this forum. I am thinking about getting the procede when I get my new car.

BTW, congratulations on the EVO article and nice work on the tuning.

Last edited by Elijaih; 04-02-2008 at 12:24 PM. Reason: adding information...
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      04-02-2008, 12:23 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijaih View Post
I don't want to derail the thread, I was just pointing out the price difference. I won't go into my exact thoughts on it, but...

I work with computers and have worked with tuning Mustangs in the past. I also have a bachelor's in Bussiness, which I have analyzed products from creation to death a million times over. I understand more R&D equals more cost. If I'm not mistaken it is the same procede in both cars, so that equipment cost is the same. I do understand the purchase of a 335i is more than an EVO. I do understand that if the EVO is easier to tune than the BMW, that the cost will be lower. I do know what I am talking about, but also understand you can do whatever you want with your business.

I also know that the longer a product is out the less it costs to make and as you spend less R&D on a product as the product matures, aka not spending nearly the time tuning the car than at the beginging. Your arguement of that it was 2 years for the BMW and seems to be a couple months or so for the EVO, means the EVO procede should be about $200. Since there is so much less time spent on it. I guess my base point is, at what point does the procede for BMW start dropping in price. No I don't expect it to be free, nor do I expect you to lose money.

I'm not here to piss off Vishnu, since I do like their product and research from what I have seen on this forum. I am thinking about getting the procede when I get my new car.

BTW, congratulations on the EVO article and nice work on the tuning.
Well, the price for the 335 Procede has come down if you factor in V2 being included when it was a cost item for those of us who bought early.
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      04-02-2008, 12:25 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
Well, the price for the 335 Procede has come down if you factor in V2 being included when it was a cost item for those of us who bought early.
Yeah I didn't say that, but I do know that. I added some info to my 2nd post.


EDIT ***I generally try not to post, because I don't want to join or start arguements, and that is not what I am trying to do here. I only want to post to ask questions or provide helpful information***

Last edited by Elijaih; 04-02-2008 at 12:35 PM. Reason: don't want to argue
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      04-02-2008, 12:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrevo View Post
So Basically what was said is..........

The Evo has a lower inital investment cost,,, ie it cost less than the bmw.

So of course it has to come with a lower cost for the upgrade.

Of which they have been working on for 2 yrs now,,, just trying to get it right.

Well you got one thing correct........

You can and do charge more for the BMW cause it has a Greater investment cost,,,,,,,ie, They can handle the extra cost cause they can afford a Bimmer. No biggie,.

Along with the years and years of on going developemnt time. Ie Beta testers!

Well played guys,, well played.
This is what I got out of it…

1) The 335 is a more complex to work with than the EVO.
2) Tuning a 335 requires more work because of this complexity.
3) The cost of this work is known as research and development, or R&D for short.
4) The cost of a unit is a function of R&D, cost of materials, and labor.
5) Any additional cost that the buyer pays is known as profit.

In regards to initial investment cost, for a market to be viable for a tuning company the cost of R&D has to work into this equation where the price the company can charge allows for profit. In other words, if Shiv could create a tune for a Kia Spectra that cost $1000, he probably wouldn’t do it since very few people would pay at much considering the cost of the KIA.

To summarize, the initial investment cost of an EVO and 335 are not the driving factors of price. However, what the initial investment cost does provide is an indicator to whether or not a market is worth the R&D (and by worth I mean that once the cost of R&D is factored in, the company can still make a profit and sell units).

As an online community we sit at our computers and give advice freely, and sometimes meet up in person to help a fellow community member out – free of charge. Do we expect someone to charge us for the education they have gone through to be able to help us out? Of course not. I think what some people fail to realize is that the people in green are vendors and while they are part of the community, they are here to promote their business. Therefore, when you buy a product from them that they spent the time to research and create, you are going to pay that R&D cost.

If this is something you don’t like, then I would say find some fellow local enthusiasts, spend the time to do your own R&D and make your own tune. While you are at it, you may want to consider building your own car, computer and other items that you are going to have to pay R&D costs for also…

p.s. while that last paragraph was a little sarcastic, it has been done. And if you do it, I’ll be the first in line to try the product out…. As long as I am not charge for the R&D!
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      04-02-2008, 12:43 PM   #50
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Nice article by Edmunds! I think it's cool that Vishnu can get a review published. Great testament to the company and product.

Makes me wish I just graduated from college again and shopping for my first car. I would so get the Evo X w/ PROcede.
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