E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > ConnectedDrive / I-Drive / Navigation Related Discussion > I-Drive Navigation Retrofit!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-12-2008, 10:09 AM   #265
UdubBadger
Banned
No_Country
348
Rep
24,716
Posts

 
Drives: '04 330i ZHP
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago Burbs

iTrader: (22)

Garage List
2004 BMW 330i ZHP  [4.75]
2011 135i  [3.73]
2008 328xi  [4.38]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
To be honest - I'm not sure I know what wire you are talking about. You are correct - I made no mention of hooking up the wire you are talking about. In doing a little research with the WDS, I think I do see what you are talking about - I see a GE/BL wire going from pin #12 of connector x13814 at the CCC which goes to the DSC (which translates from the left front wheel speed sensor.)

Interesting. I'm pretty sure that US cars don't even have a connector fitted at the CCC for x13814. (there certainly is no white or any connector on my car!) I do know that the DSC talks to the CCC, but I think it comes over the K-can bus. One WDS diagram I looked at mentioned that this was only for cars in China/Japan/Korea, so I wonder if its a JNAV thing. Although the other diagram I looked at did not specify, so I interpreted it to be for all cars. I dunno for sure - interesting...I had not seen this. Luckily, the CCC has internal dead-reckoning ability to maintain its bearing even when the GPS signal is (temporarily) non-existant. To my knowledge, I'm not getting any errors/faults since I did not hook this up - I will check again though. (I'm assuming you are referring to connector x13814 since pin 11 of connector x13812 is the K-can High wire)

Rest assured, it works fine (at least on my US car) NOT hooking this up...I took a 1500 mile road trip two weeks ago - NAV worked flawlessly.
why don't you take a 2500 mile trip out to wisconsin and while youre here you can do this retrofit for me
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #266
Wittmann
New Member
Germany
0
Rep
10
Posts

 
Drives: 3er
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: M

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
The guy who helped program my car had special software, but a cheapo cable...and it talked just find to my car. Hmmm... (he's out of the country though...and out of touch)
Vehicles manufactured from 04/2007 onwards have DCAN, and won't talk over OBD. A cheap cable won't do.
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2008, 05:39 PM   #267
Wittmann
New Member
Germany
0
Rep
10
Posts

 
Drives: 3er
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: M

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklion View Post
Awesome DIY write up. That's like a little novel right there.

I don't have the balls to do it, but am in awe that you do and went through with the project, kudos
Don't do it. The main problem is, that the main wiring harness is different in navigation-equipped cars (sized for higher power consumption). When the CCC and the CID (and everything else you hooked up there) draw too much power through the undersized plain radio wires, these will burn through, resulting in an electric fire behind your dashboard.

This retrofit is also missing the IBS, which prevents the CCC and oder ECUs from draining your battery.

Also, should you have any problems, no BMW dealer will be able to do a software update on your car. Ever.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 03:11 AM   #268
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittmann View Post
Don't do it. The main problem is, that the main wiring harness is different in navigation-equipped cars (sized for higher power consumption). When the CCC and the CID (and everything else you hooked up there) draw too much power through the undersized plain radio wires, these will burn through, resulting in an electric fire behind your dashboard.

This retrofit is also missing the IBS, which prevents the CCC and oder ECUs from draining your battery.

Also, should you have any problems, no BMW dealer will be able to do a software update on your car. Ever.
I don't agree on several points. The wiring guage sizes are the SAME for nav equipped vehicles...I've checked the WDS carefully for this. In addition, this retrofit is wired IDENTICALLY to how a navigation equipped vehicle is wired. There is a different audio harness for i-drive cars, but the only difference I can find is to accomodate for the controller wiring and additional antenna lead to the sharkfin. Power supply needs are wired directly to the JBE in OEM locations and on the individual OEM fused circuits (and thus IBS), just as if it was wired from the factory. Don't think for a minute that we just tapped the CID and controller into the wiring harness in the back of the CCC. (I only did that for original R&D/testing purposes.)

Software update? It can (and must) be done at any time by any dealer or person with a SSS. This is not an issue! BTW - That's the only way this whole thing can come on-line and work properly - with coding. I'm looking forward to getting rid of 29.2 just like the rest of the 335 owners.. I'm getting an update (again) next week. Once the vehicle order is changed, Progman sees it as the car "as it is equipped" and programs all modules accordingly. Let me say the only "issue" I have with programming at this time is regarding the voice control/recognition, but I think I have that figured out (and should know in the next week or two), with authentication files issued from BMWNA (possibly at no charge!)

Please don't make judgements about this retrofit until you read this thread thoroughly, see where it is wired, and know what we have all been working for...a seamless transition.
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 03:14 AM   #269
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UdubBadger View Post
why don't you take a 2500 mile trip out to wisconsin and while youre here you can do this retrofit for me
Yo Badger...you can do it! If you have moderate car-skills, this is not hard. Again, know your limitations (if you don't think you can, then don't attempt it and f-up your ride!)

...and if you can't do it, the local guy you find to program your car will certainly be able to do it with my "guide."
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 05:31 AM   #270
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

Hi Booster4075, I have been reading this thread for 2 weeks, now try to start it on my E92, I am in New Zealand, but the car was imported from Japan. At moment, I am having trouble to locate a CCC and other Nav related parts. Well, I can see some of them in Ebay, but I remember you were saying you had trouble to get your UK CCC working on your car, so I worried that if I could run into the same situation you had before. Can you tell me why was that UK one does not work with your car? is that only because that CCC not compatible with your other MOST devices?
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 06:30 AM   #271
FrankoQ
Deny everything
FrankoQ's Avatar
United_States
134
Rep
11,293
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Laurel, MD

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to FrankoQ
Amazing!
__________________

I need a drink

Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 08:46 PM   #272
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by song8062 View Post
Hi Booster4075, I have been reading this thread for 2 weeks, now try to start it on my E92, I am in New Zealand, but the car was imported from Japan. At moment, I am having trouble to locate a CCC and other Nav related parts. Well, I can see some of them in Ebay, but I remember you were saying you had trouble to get your UK CCC working on your car, so I worried that if I could run into the same situation you had before. Can you tell me why was that UK one does not work with your car? is that only because that CCC not compatible with your other MOST devices?
Hmmm.....so you have a Japan region car, but its located in New Zealand?! Weird.

I believe the issues I was having was due to the region of the car being US, and the CCC being UK. Now, I'm not quite clear if my US car would have had the same problem if my car was physically located in the UK and being programmed there (I suspect that it would though.) The actual problem is that PROGMAN would not program the car because it thought I had the wrong part numbers for the CCC and controller installed. It wouldn't even try to program until they were replaced with specified part numbers. So, I'm not so sure if it was the US region PROGMAN fighting with the UK parts or the UK parts fighting with the US regioned car. I think it was the former.

You may have an interesting situation though, since Japan region cars have JNAV....and PROGMAN may not agree that you have a Japan region car and non-Japan region navigation (other than JNAV.) You may be installing JNAV instead for your retrofit! (your suspicions may be correct...or worse than you think)

Congrats - you are now also a Guinea pig. Please let us know your results!

BTW -Ultimately, I was able to use the CCC and controller after installing the wiring, but could only get 90% functionality. AND (very importantly) - my car could not be updated or programmed until those part number issues were corrected. FYI - all MOST devices worked fine even before coding (in my situation) - that was not an issue.

Best of luck!
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2008, 09:27 PM   #273
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

Well, I can't install JNAV on my car, if I do install it, then I will not be able to use GPS in NZ.
searched CCC /CD part via realoem by using my VIN, and I could not see any thing related to JNAV in this part list, it only shows the country version of Korean and China.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...57&hg=65&fg=45
only the one had MD which does says the nation version = Japan
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...58&hg=65&fg=45

Does that mean I only can install the one with MD and CD?
would the "nation version" makes the progman to identify compatible parts? (eg, if nation version = Japan then , progman only search for CCC with JNAV or the one with the MD?)
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2008, 05:24 PM   #274
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

I think the reason why progman could not talk to the UK CCC on that US spec car is because the mean different part number between ECE and US:
As I can see from the online ETK, there are only two different region of the parts: ECE and US.
There is no other region category which is embedded into VIN (if you search the part by using your VIN you can only see two region category - ECE and US), so I think if I can get any parts that in Europe region then pragman will recognize it and program it, if this is true then I will not too worry about this anymore.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 12:09 AM   #275
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by song8062 View Post
I think the reason why progman could not talk to the UK CCC on that US spec car is because the mean different part number between ECE and US:
As I can see from the online ETK, there are only two different region of the parts: ECE and US.
There is no other region category which is embedded into VIN (if you search the part by using your VIN you can only see two region category - ECE and US), so I think if I can get any parts that in Europe region then pragman will recognize it and program it, if this is true then I will not too worry about this anymore.
I believe what you are saying. What frustrated me is that my CCC from the UK actually had a decal with the p/n on it, and it also said "ECE/US". It just could not be programmed on a US car located in the US.


SONG8062 - I see your need for traditional i-drive as opposed to JNAV. So I guess the question is whether or not you shop for US or ECE parts, and if either (or both) will work. I would think that you would need the CD version (then again, I'm not so sure.)
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 12:36 AM   #276
DT_
New Member
0
Rep
18
Posts

 
Drives: 540
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittmann View Post
Don't do it. The main problem is, that the main wiring harness is different in navigation-equipped cars (sized for higher power consumption). When the CCC and the CID (and everything else you hooked up there) draw too much power through the undersized plain radio wires, these will burn through, resulting in an electric fire behind your dashboard.

This retrofit is also missing the IBS, which prevents the CCC and oder ECUs from draining your battery.

Also, should you have any problems, no BMW dealer will be able to do a software update on your car. Ever.
um ... sorry to say but i think you should research and get your facts straight before posting.

1) the wires are the same guage... look at a schematic.

2) by adding SA609 to the VO and then coding/programming all modules the JBE and DME now know that the vehicle is equipped with navigation and behave accordingly when it comes to power management.

3) Why cant he get updates from the dealer? This is a BMW part which comes in the same body style cars of this model year from the factory, all he did was add it after the fact. theres absolutely no reason why the car can't be updated at the dealer.

Seriously, why do people make claims about things that they do not understand?
__________________
With best Regards,
DT

Last edited by DT_; 09-23-2008 at 01:16 AM.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 01:37 AM   #277
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
I believe what you are saying. What frustrated me is that my CCC from the UK actually had a decal with the p/n on it, and it also said "ECE/US". It just could not be programmed on a US car located in the US.


SONG8062 - I see your need for traditional i-drive as opposed to JNAV. So I guess the question is whether or not you shop for US or ECE parts, and if either (or both) will work. I would think that you would need the CD version (then again, I'm not so sure.)
So when you replaced the US CCC later, was that CCC has the same part number that you can find from ETK by using your VIN? When you buy the 2nd US CCC, do you have to make sure it has the part number that can be found in the CCC part list which is generated by using your VIN in ETK?
The reason I ask is because that I can see a lot of CCC on europen market but non of them can be found in the part list which is generated by using my VIN.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 02:19 AM   #278
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by song8062 View Post
So when you replaced the US CCC later, was that CCC has the same part number that you can find from ETK by using your VIN? When you buy the 2nd US CCC, do you have to make sure it has the part number that can be found in the CCC part list which is generated by using your VIN in ETK?
The reason I ask is because that I can see a lot of CCC on europen market but non of them can be found in the part list which is generated by using my VIN.
That is an interesting question...

After the UK parts mess, I located US parts (a CCC & Controller) from a build date close my US car. The controller part number was the same (as requested by Progman, but the CCC was not (but they were procured from the same car.) I was told by knowledgeable sources that you want to obtain parts that are no more than 2-3 supercessions away from the part number that your car needs/wants/requires. This information is kind of vague. If you look at the CCC part numbers, there are a number of supercessions of the same part number - Progman accounts for this and reprograms the CCC to get it updated with your car. I have heard of problems (but have not experienced personally) with cars that are completely programmed up to date with the newest software, but having "old" CCC's (of the correct vintage for the car), but their programming being behind too many revisions to work properly. I know...confusing. I just located a CCC and controller from a car with a build date very close to my car...and it all worked. There is a major parts change in/around 4/07, so be careful.

To answer your question, I would locate the correct part number for your VIN on your vehicle (per ETK) or a close supercession of that part number (also listed in the ETK.) Ask for the part number before you buy! There are a lot of CCC part numbers out there... Even though the first CCC I bought said "US" on it...it didn't work for me. I'd stay away from the parts not listed in the ETK for your VIN or you may have the same issues I had - 90% functionality instead of 100%. Your situation is a little less clear already with it being a Japan region car.

Ultimately, it didn't really hurt me buying the wrong parts...I just re-Ebayed them back to Europe (for an appropriate application) so I lost a little money trying to experiment and on the shipping, but it was worth the gamble to see if I could even get it going, which I did.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 04:12 AM   #279
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
That is an interesting question...

After the UK parts mess, I located US parts (a CCC & Controller) from a build date close my US car. The controller part number was the same (as requested by Progman, but the CCC was not (but they were procured from the same car.) I was told by knowledgeable sources that you want to obtain parts that are no more than 2-3 supercessions away from the part number that your car needs/wants/requires. This information is kind of vague. If you look at the CCC part numbers, there are a number of supercessions of the same part number - Progman accounts for this and reprograms the CCC to get it updated with your car. I have heard of problems (but have not experienced personally) with cars that are completely programmed up to date with the newest software, but having "old" CCC's (of the correct vintage for the car), but their programming being behind too many revisions to work properly. I know...confusing. I just located a CCC and controller from a car with a build date very close to my car...and it all worked. There is a major parts change in/around 4/07, so be careful.

To answer your question, I would locate the correct part number for your VIN on your vehicle (per ETK) or a close supercession of that part number (also listed in the ETK.) Ask for the part number before you buy! There are a lot of CCC part numbers out there... Even though the first CCC I bought said "US" on it...it didn't work for me. I'd stay away from the parts not listed in the ETK for your VIN or you may have the same issues I had - 90% functionality instead of 100%. Your situation is a little less clear already with it being a Japan region car.

Ultimately, it didn't really hurt me buying the wrong parts...I just re-Ebayed them back to Europe (for an appropriate application) so I lost a little money trying to experiment and on the shipping, but it was worth the gamble to see if I could even get it going, which I did.

Thanks for your info Booster4075, I have spoken to the tech several time today, he said Autologic can do alot of thing that SSS can't, he said even in your situation (UK CCC on US car), he can probably crack it with autologic (not sure if that is true). I can't buy CCC which listed in ETK for my VIN as it is really hard to find a 2nd hand and new one is extremely expensive. (1500euro). My carís manufacture data is 04/2007, I guess I need to get one of those with 8 buttons on it and 2 buttons on the remote. I guess I just have to gamble a 2nd hand one as well and hope the tech can crack it somehow.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 04:33 AM   #280
gIzzE
Major General
gIzzE's Avatar
United Kingdom
71
Rep
5,178
Posts

 
Drives: Mercedes ML, F25 X3 and 2.8i Z
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norfolk, UK.

iTrader: (2)

What do you need???

I have a UK CCC that is coded for regular sound output, and a car with aux input and bluetooth if you have that. It is not the 8 button version, but it works extremely well in my Efficeint Dymnamics October 2007 car no problem.

Also have the 8.8" monitor, idrive controller and the trim in matte black (ala new M3) so it matches any interior, hoses, fan in fact the lot, trim round climate and round the CCC.
Plus I have a harness made up so you just need to hook it in.

All tested and working 100%.


Yeah Autologic can do it, it is not set in stone like the BMW SSS.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 06:18 PM   #281
srcstc
Major
United_States
27
Rep
1,323
Posts

 
Drives: 09 TiAg E92 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ

iTrader: (8)

Great thread! I love big DIYs.

Last edited by srcstc; 10-15-2009 at 08:39 AM.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2008, 06:56 PM   #282
song8062
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: e92 320i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland NZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
What do you need???

I have a UK CCC that is coded for regular sound output, and a car with aux input and bluetooth if you have that. It is not the 8 button version, but it works extremely well in my Efficeint Dymnamics October 2007 car no problem.

Also have the 8.8" monitor, idrive controller and the trim in matte black (ala new M3) so it matches any interior, hoses, fan in fact the lot, trim round climate and round the CCC.
Plus I have a harness made up so you just need to hook it in.

All tested and working 100%.


Yeah Autologic can do it, it is not set in stone like the BMW SSS.

What is the production date of your CCC? if you put this older one (without 8 buttons) into your 10/2007 car, how did you program it? via Autologic? (so you mean that tech I was talking to was right? autologic can even program older CCC on new car?)
Can you give me the part number of your CCC as well?
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2008, 12:54 AM   #283
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by srcstc View Post
Great thread! I love big DIYs.
If anyone's done this or is going to and has a non-NAV single hump dashboard they don't need, email or PM me. I need one.

Rich@mybimmer.net
I had trouble selling mine for a while, but finally ebay'd it for pretty cheap cause I wanted the giant box out of my garage. At first, I called Bavarian Auto Recycling to see if they wanted it (as they were having trouble getting me the double hump dash out of a wrecked car.) - they said they had a surplus of the single hump dashes, so I suspect you could get one for a good deal...
http://www.bmrparts.com/ (but I'd call them)
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2008, 02:04 AM   #284
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

For those who haven't read the last 15 pages, I just posted an updated version of the retrofit PDF here:

http://home.comcast.net/~Booster/idr...e_retrofit.pdf

Also - anyone doing this retrofit, please take a few pix and forward them to me (I'd love to have better and clearer pictures of the JBE and harnesses for this PDF.)
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2008, 02:23 PM   #285
srcstc
Major
United_States
27
Rep
1,323
Posts

 
Drives: 09 TiAg E92 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
I had trouble selling mine for a while, but finally ebay'd it for pretty cheap cause I wanted the giant box out of my garage. At first, I called Bavarian Auto Recycling to see if they wanted it (as they were having trouble getting me the double hump dash out of a wrecked car.) - they said they had a surplus of the single hump dashes, so I suspect you could get one for a good deal...
http://www.bmrparts.com/ (but I'd call them)

Thanks I'll give them a call!
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2008, 12:40 AM   #286
Booster4075
First Lieutenant
Booster4075's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: E90, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Navigation Retrofit 100% Complete

While I know there is talk of the "new" i-drive (CIC) retrofit, I just wanted to let everyone know that my (CCC) i-drive retrofit is now 100% complete. As of today, I have full functionality, including voice control, traffic info and no faults whatsoever. The full retrofit is now complete.

As such, I have updated my retrofit document (PDF) for anyone interested in the process. This will likely be my last update to it unless someone sends me some pictures to add from their retrofit. It can be found here:

http://home.comcast.net/~Booster/idr...e_retrofit.pdf

Thanks for everyone's help and enthusiasm (well, at least some of you were enthusiastic!) Just goes to show...where there's a will, there's a way!

Its almost winter time....I'm on to my heated seat retrofit!.....
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST