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      04-30-2008, 03:34 AM   #89
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The only place I can see a hitch in your plan is with the coding of the actual radio. At this point, is anybody certain that the region coding can infact even be changed? Meaning, is it possible that your UK hardware is physically different in some way compared to the NA stuff? Furthermore, if the programming is indeed re-writable and not a one-time-permanent-coding, can the dealer even do it?

I hate to be negative because your progress is really astounding. Perhaps a BMW Tech on these boards that has experience on the programming side can answer some of these questions. If there is legal issues with a tech posting anything of this nature, perhaps you could PM your thoughts to myself or another member who will in turn post it as from an anonymous source.
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      04-30-2008, 04:50 AM   #90
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If you have a look at the install indtuctions for retrofits, ipod, bluetooth, digital radio, cd changer etc. they all state that the radio has to be coded before it will talk to the new device.


The only thing I am not sure about is getting a European system coded for NA.

The US part number is ... 65839123092

The European part number is .... 65839123091
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      04-30-2008, 06:09 AM   #91
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Good stuff, subscribed....best project on site so far....

Been actually thinking of doing this project in a afew weeks. I might use the e87 flipup monitor display though instead of changing the whole dash.
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      04-30-2008, 09:05 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desi View Post
The only place I can see a hitch in your plan is with the coding of the actual radio. At this point, is anybody certain that the region coding can infact even be changed? Meaning, is it possible that your UK hardware is physically different in some way compared to the NA stuff? Furthermore, if the programming is indeed re-writable and not a one-time-permanent-coding, can the dealer even do it?

I hate to be negative because your progress is really astounding. Perhaps a BMW Tech on these boards that has experience on the programming side can answer some of these questions. If there is legal issues with a tech posting anything of this nature, perhaps you could PM your thoughts to myself or another member who will in turn post it as from an anonymous source.
The country/region settings for the radio is done by coding and the setting can be altered from UK to US by BMW.
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      04-30-2008, 12:51 PM   #93
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I was supposed to be getting the dash for $350...but the best I've seen for a new dash was close to $700. Where can you get a NEW one for that cheap?!?!

Why would another GPS antenna be faster? I think the OEM location is prime and is specifically designed for that CCC. I know any antenna would probably work, I just want it as close to OEM as I can get unless there really is a significant advantage..
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      04-30-2008, 06:19 PM   #94
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Antenna cable research

I measured out the distance for the antenna cable to be in the rough neighborhood of 9+ feet (running from the TCU, under the back seat, through the center console, and to the CCC with a little extra length.) Ideally, a 10 or 12 foot fakra extension (one male end, one female end) would work. It seems like a standard SMB cable would suffice, but I like the locking fakra ends. Since the center console has to be out to get the dash out, I see no harm in just running the cable to the TCU as opposed to running another little aftermarket GPS antenna hidden in the dash. I'm researching some fakra extensions now...
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      05-01-2008, 04:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
I would just buy a normal sirfIII antenna with a mini smb plug on it and it will plug straight in, it will also get full signal from through the dash.
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Why would another GPS antenna be faster?
I think gIzzE is a little confused... the sirfIII isn't an antenna, it's an entire GPS receiver with a built-in antenna. Replacing the GPS antenna with a SirfIII would be like plugging the Sirius antenna cable into the headset jack of a Sportster.
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      05-01-2008, 05:10 PM   #96
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You sure about that? Not that I know what you mean when you say "...would be like plugging the Sirius antenna cable into the headset jack of a Sportster."

The sirf III receiver/antenna is a good upgrade for older systems, plug a sirf III into the E46/E39 system and it locks onto a signal in seconds, plus you get full satellite fixes in an multi story car park, compare that with the factory antenna where you can wait up to 2 minutes for a fix and even driving through urban areas with tall buildings can be enough to loose the sat fix.

I think because there is a speed pulse, car makers tend to put a pretty poor oem antenna in. Maybe it is getting better now?? But the nav in my E91 was a bit slow compared to my Sony nav system, and again while the Sony works in the garage the BMW system looses its satellite fix.
So I see no reason to try and use the factory antenna myself.
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      05-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #97
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Update to the retrofit:

-I've got a service advisor friend at the local dealership researching with the shop foreman whether the CCC can be in fact coded from UK to US. (which everybody tells me it can, but I want the guy thats actually going to do it tell me he can before I drop money for labor...)

-I've ordered a Fakra extension cable (RNS-E sharkfin extension for an Audi) which should work for my purpose (its a bit questionable until I have it in my hands if it has the correct ends and is long enough - seems like it has the male/female fakra ends and I think its 5 meters long.) I'll let you all know if its correct and the source. It was less than $40 shipped too.

-My dashboard "on order" hasn't really worked out. The local place that had 5 of them has been striking out. Seems that when the passenger airbag blows, it rips the dash in half, rendering it useless. It must be entirely replaced. Of the two remaining dashes that weren't torn apart, they were cut up from smashed windshields. No bueno. If anyone knows of a good source for a used/salvage black double-scoop e90 dash, please let me know. I'm almost thinking of dropping the $670 for a new one to avoid the frustration and to know I'm getting a cherry one.

-I'm in talks to acquire some new aluminum trim so that I have the center console i-drive trim (as well as to replace one of my other "blemished" trims.)

I'll keep you all updated on my progress. I have next week off and I was hoping to put it together then, but without a dash I'm stuck in limbo...
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      05-02-2008, 06:45 PM   #98
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Tisher sells the dash for 556 but with shipping it probably comes out to around 600.
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      05-09-2008, 06:43 PM   #99
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Retrofit update

a) I got the fakra cable from Navparts.com - its seemingly long enough, but has female ends on both sides. Its likely that I will use it and go directly from the sharkfin antenna to the CCC.

b) I'm still waiting for the dealer and shop foreman to update me (I'm calling daily) to find out once I get this installed that they WILL be able to 1) recode the CCC from UK to US. (ironically, the decal on the part # on my CCC says ECE/US.) I'll buy a US CCC if I really have to but since I have this one.... and 2) convert the programming on my car from M-ASK to CCC as required to make it work. I just want to be sure that the tire pressure monitoring, PDC, etc... will ALL work when the conversion and programming is complete.

c) I've got a quote from a friend at the dealer for a new dash for around $470...good enough to sway me to buy a new one as opposed to salvage. I'm compiling a list of all the little things (center speaker grille, vent duct, etc..) so that when I make the DIY, it will be complete.

I'm really ready....just waiting on others.

Anyone else made progress??
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      05-14-2008, 03:05 AM   #100
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Retrofit update

Well, to be honest, I am stalled with this project. I'm ready to order the dash, create the small custom harness and ready to use i-drive! However....

I'm still waiting to hear from the lead tech at the dealership regarding the programming of this thing. I got impatient and visited a friend at ANOTHER bmw dealership and talked at length with one of their lead tech's...he wasn't very enthusiastic and encouraged me several times to just trade in my car for one with i-drive. He even went back to "talk to other tech's." I honestly think he was very knowledgable and I think he was somewhat impressed by my use of the CID, CCC, K-Can, etc.. bmw lingo and my understanding of the TIS and the homework I've done with the WDS. He basically told me that the programming (progman/retrofit) is based on the vehicle order which is tied to the VIN of the car, and since my car wasn't built with it, it couldn't get programmed with it. He seemed to think that BMW engineers would need to get involved and that just wasn't realistic. I'm not thoroughly convinced, but it seems plausible.

I've been doing some reading on the e60 forums where there was an actual retrofit software update for cars that had the satnav installed after the fact. Interesting, but not necessarily applicable since BMW has not programmed a retrofit for this application.

Is there anyone out there that knows a BMW tech (or is one!) that has the knowledge to jump this hurdle? By scouring the net for any small tidbits of knowledge, I've read such things as utilizing the "ASAP process, but leaving the VIN box blank", "modifying the vehicle order to utilize the retrofit path", "Retrofit EBA instruction for CCC", and "need to code to update M-ASK to CCC." These terms mean little to me other than HOPE in finding the right person to have the knowledge to make this project work on the software side. I'm also under the impression that my UK CCC can work in the US by "flashing the part number of the CCC", utilizing a "CCC program disk to restore the CCC to factory state", that the radio tuner can be adapted to US by "modifying the vehicle order", and "utilizing retrofit path and remove radio region code."

So here I am...a little depressed due to the lack of progress. I'm not gonna quit (just yet) and I doubt I'm going to trade in my car (just yet)...but I have a few more dealership resources I have yet to exhaust.

Anyone got any suggestions, knowledge, or good buddies that are BMW software geniuses?
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      05-24-2008, 02:30 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steaman View Post
The retrofit set, upgrading from Business Navi to Professional Navi has some of these parts, It might be possible to buy parts of the set as single items instead of making your own harness?


Retrofit kit navigation professional
Part number: 65 90 0 415 350 Set

http://bmwfans.info/part-65900415350/
I went back and looked at this post - you are absolutely right! Some of these little parts could be purchased separately (ie. the fan harness is less than $7 ready to go!) The fakra antenna cable is not part of this since its an upgrade from business to professional navigation (and it is assumed you already have the antenna cable in place and working.)

In looking at the instructions for this retrofit kit (65 90 0 415 350) it appears a microphone is part of this install. Can we assume that cars equipped with voice command/bluetooth already are equipped? I probably need to pull down the overhead console and make sure two microphones are present.

I still have a local dealer trying to contact BMW NA engineering to see if they will be able to supply a software package to program the car. I suggested using the software package that goes with this retrofit kit, but I'm sure I don't know enough on the software side to make it work. (adding to the complication is my UK CCC.)

...still in limbo waiting...
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      05-26-2008, 10:28 AM   #102
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Booster4075,

I have been following your progress so far and your dedication to getting this working is fantastic. I wanted to do this retro fit on my E90 here in the UK but did not have a clue where to start, i think i was also looking at the same equipment you brought on ebay.

With the knoledge that you have posted here, I feel more confident to proceed with this project.

I have just the Pro Radio fitted with just standard sound, no amp (i think). I have had the ipod connector installed and know that the info from the ipod is delivered to the PRO radio via the fibre optic cable. When i fitted a Parrot 3100lcd i had to move the fiber connectors into the parrot loom so it still worked. When the fibre was not connected, no ipod control.

I have a 318d SE 2007 UK. I dont wave any extras like assist or OEM bluetooth. I also do not have a sharkfin.

I am happy to a non OEM receiver/antenna.

I have a couple of questions you may be able to help with, or anyone else.

1.Do you think an istall in my car with no extras would be easier in regards of programming? (no assist or bluetooth ect)

2. Would i need to recode my ipod interface (OEM MOST) to the CCC, or is it programmed into the car.

3. When you hooked this unit up you had no sound, because of the amp needing programming. As i just have a standard PRO radio with stereo sound, would the CCC just output the audio directly to the speakers as my existing unit does. I dont think i have an amp in the car.

If i can get this information i will try and source the equipmet on ebay.

Booster, i really wish you the best of luck getting the unit recoded for the US. If however this turns out to be impossible or just too expensive, give me a shout, if i havent already found some kit, i would be happy to take this of your hands.

Cheers
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      05-26-2008, 03:07 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by djdaveyg View Post

1.Do you think an istall in my car with no extras would be easier in regards of programming? (no assist or bluetooth ect)

2. Would i need to recode my ipod interface (OEM MOST) to the CCC, or is it programmed into the car.

3. When you hooked this unit up you had no sound, because of the amp needing programming. As i just have a standard PRO radio with stereo sound, would the CCC just output the audio directly to the speakers as my existing unit does. I dont think i have an amp in the car.
Hmm....interesting questions. Clearly, I'm no expert in this matter but learning as I go! I'm under the assumption that you have to have "Top HiFi" to have a CCC (its standard for vehicles with navigation.) I'm not sure how that will work since you don't have Logic 7. Since you don't have bluetooth/assist, you might find some of the parts you need in the "Professional Nav system retrofit kit" http://bmwfans.info/part-65900415350/ <-- this is a kit to retrofit cars from business nav to professional nav. You can find the wiring for the microphone, etc... here. (I'm also hoping this will be a workable factory upgrade retrofit path for me to get my system coded/programmed!)

Yes, you will need to recode your CCC to work with your IPOD adapter. The CCC is the main controller for the MOST bus and maintains a registration file and device order for all MOST devices. If you swap out radios (from RAD2 to CCC), it won't know your Ipod adapter is there.

I am under the impression that you DO have an amp in the car, even though it isn't the Logic 7 ("Top HiFi") unit. If you have just the "HiFi" system (not Logic 7), I think the amp receives analog signals from the radio, not over the MOST bus, so audio might actually work. I would spend time serious time looking over the WDS for the "HiFi" system and tracing where everything goes to see if you'll get basic audio. I would say all bets are off for everything else to work with the idrive(PDC if you have it, climate control, etc...) without reprogramming. You'll need to get a GPS antenna of some sort (even if its not the sharkfin) - hide it in the dash.

I know, I know...a lot more questions than answers. I'm still experimenting. I would encourage you too also! At some point (soon!), we'll figure out a streamlined upgrade path that will work for everyone.
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      05-27-2008, 11:29 AM   #104
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OK,

I dont have the HIFI option in my car, i just have basic option which is 6 speakers. The HIFI option has 10 speakers and has a 40w amp. The next option is logic7.

I went to BMW web site (UK) to configure a new car. The pro nav is apart of the professional media package. This includes bluetooth pre wire, assist, voice control and the navigation system. 2000 option for my car!

When i select that package, it does not include an audio upgrade. When i complete my order the HIFI option and HIFI PRO option still remail un selected.

This may mean that the CCC can work with a basic audio system, outputting directly to the speakers.

The unit you have has come from a UK car, prehaps with only the basic audio option and thats why you didnt get any audio from the thing.

What are the connections on the back of the CCC?

When you hook it up again could you plug a speaker directly into one of the speaker outputs and see if you get any audio?

Im not intersted in getting the voice contro working ect, i just want the navigation, audio and maybe climate control.

my WDS is on its way to take a closer look.
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      05-27-2008, 10:45 PM   #105
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Hmm...I didn't realize there was a third audio option (with no amp.) I took a look at the WDS - there is in fact a diagram for a RAD2 radio as well as CCC with outputs going directly to speakers (connector x13812.) It seems it should work for audio purposes! (unless those outputs are turned off via coding, but I don't see why they would be.)

Its gonna be a few days (likely more) until I'm screwing around with my dash again - I'll let you know if there is audio out through that connector.
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      05-29-2008, 06:02 AM   #106
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pm me if you have a firmware for this idrive current gen (E90) i want to take a look see
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      05-29-2008, 10:48 AM   #107
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The 000 code thing was from my old car not a BMW, just thought that the same logic may apply.



I phonesd my local dealer today and he said that coding should take about 1.5 hours. He was the service manager. I also phoned an indipendant BMW garage and thier master tech was unsure about the coding?????



I guess the only way to see if it can be coded is to take it to them.


I will keep my eye out or some equipment.



Let me know how things go.
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      05-30-2008, 03:23 AM   #108
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If the ccc or m-audio controller has come from a car with the same spec as you then it won't need coding, but I would guess you will always need to code it as the chances of finding a unit that has come from an exactly specced car is pretty slim.

My dealer has said if I get my system in they will code it for me, the only slight snag to that is if the ccc/m-audio unit has come from a car that has an amp and mine hasn't they may not be able to as when they enter my vin number it may say changing this option is not possible, or rather the option to change it is not even there.
However, adding bluetooth, usb etc. etc. can be done as it is under the retrofit list of coding options.

Does it have to be the professional nav system? I have the M-Audio system (business nav) complete with screen, controller and cables spare. I was going to fit it all but think I may be getting something else car wise that I will concentrate on. It owes me around 550, it is coded for a car with no audio upgrade and the sound and tuning etc. works fine in my car which is the same. All parts tested in a car with nav and working fine, would be looking for 300 including a 1 aeries flip up screen. Bought that as I considered fitting that instead, if it didn't look right I would have put the 3 series dash/screen in.
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      05-30-2008, 04:17 PM   #109
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Im going to try and fit the Pro navigation, seem a shame to make the effort without getting the full sysrem.

Booster, Can you give me the part number of the idrive controller, im unsure why some have 1 button, some have 2. For me im not worried about voice control so just the menu button will do me me.


Ive also been looking at the wds. My radio uses fuse f14 10A to the X13815 connector.(as of 2007_09) The CCC usesfuse f56 20A to the same X13815 (Main stereo connector). I think i could just change the fuse from a 10A to a 20A rather than a rewire. Anyone see an issues with this. The only thing that may be an issue with a device drawing more current will be the cable gauge, im sure its the same wire used.

Also have you thought about the cooling pipes?
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      05-31-2008, 01:45 AM   #110
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Retrofit Update

Well, today I got the dealer I've been working with to allow me to hook the system up (literally on the passenger side floor) to see if they will be able to program it. In doing this, I don't have to risk changing the dash or anything permanent to my pristine car to see if it can be coded/programmed. The shop foreman seems fairly confident that the CCC will work utilizing the existing business-to-professional nav system retrofit software, however, he thinks there'll be a hitch since my CCC is from the UK with a strange part number according to their catalog. (however, the CCC says ECE/US right on it.) People that I have been talking to on the net say that progman will decide if it'll fly or not based on part number. Only progman knows! At least its hope! - Tuesday is the day and I will update on my success or failure of this mission. If it works, I'll order up a dash and completely do it!

Cooling pipes - yes, I have thought of that. There is a small pipe that goes with CCC equipped cars (p/n: 64 11 6 928 875) - I'm not sure what it does (force cool air onto the CCC fan?), but I'm going to order it along with the dash and other parts when its time. I want to make this as close to an OEM install as possible. I'm sure there's a reason for it - a lot of the documentation I've been reading say MOST devices can and will get hot.

Controller - my one-button controller doesn't seem to have a part number on it. The business-to-professional satnav retrofit controller (high) p/n is : 65 82 9 122 027. However, I don't know for sure if this is a one or two button controller - I'm guessing its a two button based on the sketch in the retrofit instructions. I will gladly sell my one-button controller so that I can obtain a two button(!) anyone??

djdaveyg - On Monday when I tear this all apart and hook it all up (for pretend..LOL), I'll try the speaker outputs on the CCC to see what happens. I have no idea if the car my CCC came from was audio-amp equipped though.

As for the RAD2/CCC power supply - Is your car newer than 9/07? Is the "plain" stereo considered "N9"? The way I'm reading the schematic, the power actually comes over connector x13812 to all types of radios. (Beware, I'm reading x13815 as the MOST bus connector.) Although, it is confusing! I'm reading four different fuse locations F11, F14, F31, and F40 depending on equipment and build date. Some RAD2 radios also use 20a fuses. Weird. I am not finding that F56 goes to any radio or related equipment though. Maybe your WDS is newer than mine. Somewhat reassuring, though, is that on all of the diagrams (whether 10A or 20A fuse is shown), all of the power supply lead wiring to pin 15 of x13812 show as "2.5"(mm?) as wire diameter size (regardless of fuse size.) Seems like a safe bet to use either fuse as long as its proper for the application. On a side note, the CID gets its power from fuse F61 (10A) in all applications/build dates.
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