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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*



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      04-07-2008, 08:18 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
hmm.
Thanks guys.

It sounds like I haven't found the problem then and it may be more severe than I initially thought.

If everybody has a little slack then the problem sounds to be more internal.
Mr.5, The wiggle described above is MINIMAL. On my car, wiggling at the rod gives only slight noise (NO CLICK). I can post a video of the sound but not sure how and doubt you would hear it in the video as it is so low a sound and so little slack. If I push on the teardrop and gold spacer closer to the top of the engine there is NO MOVEMENT...MAYBE 0.25mm as described above.

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Originally Posted by npb View Post

engine was warm, so i used a metal rod to see if there was slack. there is a liiittle bit, but nothing that seems too alarming. maybe 1/4 millimeter in each direction?? if that makes sense...
Again, I don't have the rattle sound, but Mr. 5, going back to your original area of concern, perhaps the rattling is not coming from the gap between the gold piece and the teardrop piece, but between the teardrop piece and the rod/connecter
THIS is what I've been trying to convey to you with all of my prior posts. Your sound is LIKELY coming from the rod/teardrop assembly and NOT the teardrop gold thingy/space assembly. I used my hand and ALOT of force in all directions today.
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      04-07-2008, 08:20 PM   #90
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We had the same ticking problem on the shop 335 coupe
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      04-07-2008, 08:41 PM   #91
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24k miles and still going strong...no ticking here. All OEM too.


I would also have to mention that the wastegates are usually held open until needed, then they are closed to bring boost up then snapped open again.

This is how BMW gets the part throttle crusing mpg without spooling the turbos...those things are so tiny that with the pressure in the exhaust manifold, they would be making boost just cruising on the highway with no load....which is why the wastegates are almost the same size, if not larger than the turbine.

putting a metal washer in there will help alleviate the problem, but has anyone disconnected the actuator rod and played with the wastegate flapper arm to see if there is play in that? Vibration in that could be leading to the actuator arm developing play, hence causing the rattle.
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      04-07-2008, 08:48 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by cbad335 View Post
Good luck w/ that.
Well, I guess you'd never done that with any dealer before, as a matter of fact, I just had a similar situation with my wife's CLK, and MB is giving us s brand new 09. Don't even have to pull out my top lawyers from the city to get the job done, cause everything is on record. If you have a strong case, I don't see why dealers or the manufacturers won't stand behind their products and honor their policies. Maybe you should spend sometime studying more about your rights than laughing.
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      04-07-2008, 08:51 PM   #93
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I hear what you guys are saying but my sound that I am having is specificaly dealing with the area that I'm concentrating on.
I know there is a pretty big gap between the rod and clip, but the ticking isn't coming from there.

When I posted the video where the ticking went away, the only thing that I did was address the part that I've been looking at all along and not the other part.

I stopped at Ace Hardware to get some C clips. Let's see if my band-aid idea will work. I'm waiting for my engine compartment to cool down first.
I will post my results afterwards but I don't know if I can get to it tonight anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain View Post
24k miles and still going strong...no ticking here. All OEM too.


I would also have to mention that the wastegates are usually held open until needed, then they are closed to bring boost up then snapped open again.

This is how BMW gets the part throttle crusing mpg without spooling the turbos...those things are so tiny that with the pressure in the exhaust manifold, they would be making boost just cruising on the highway with no load....which is why the wastegates are almost the same size, if not larger than the turbine.

putting a metal washer in there will help alleviate the problem, but has anyone disconnected the actuator rod and played with the wastegate flapper arm to see if there is play in that? Vibration in that could be leading to the actuator arm developing play, hence causing the rattle.
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      04-07-2008, 08:51 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Why?
My car is great!
The ticking is disturbing.
I guess your standard is not as high as mine.
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      04-07-2008, 09:06 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I hear what you guys are saying but my sound that I am having is specificaly dealing with the area that I'm concentrating on.
I know there is a pretty big gap between the rod and clip, but the ticking isn't coming from there.

When I posted the video where the ticking went away, the only thing that I did was address the part that I've been looking at all along and not the other part.

I stopped at Ace Hardware to get some C clips. Let's see if my band-aid idea will work. I'm waiting for my engine compartment to cool down first.
I will post my results afterwards but I don't know if I can get to it tonight anyway.
You may have just transferred the pressure to that part with your putty knife and done the same thing to the rod/teardrop assembly without actually putting the putty knife in the "right" place so to speak. FWIW I still heard it in the video just not as loud as without the putty knife. Try the "putty knife mod" in the rod/teardrop assembly where you have a big gap and see if it goes away. I bet it will. I'll bet you a beer,...
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      04-07-2008, 09:14 PM   #96
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Ticking noise has just started a couple of days ago. I have late 07 build and the car has 6K on it. The noise is very annoying. There is a slight gap from the rod attachment next to the gold piece, its like 3-4mm but thats not the source of the noise. Sometimes you think the noise is coming from the engine head like a valve knocking but i'm not sure. The noise can be very misleading, being that it's not to loud and noticeable for right now.
Lets see what happens in a couple of week. My guess it will get louder and the noise can be traced easily.
Also, the noise used to happen on the regular on cold start but now it does not go away. Changed the oil and noise is still there.

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      04-07-2008, 11:46 PM   #97
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Sooooooo....

Instead of posting a million posts in a forum, has anyone taken these pics and actually gone to a dealership? Wrote BMW NA? Anything other than post more here?

If proof's in the puddin' I'd say that we're going to get fat from it all.
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      04-08-2008, 08:34 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Sooooooo....

Instead of posting a million posts in a forum, has anyone taken these pics and actually gone to a dealership? Wrote BMW NA? Anything other than post more here?

If proof's in the puddin' I'd say that we're going to get fat from it all.
I'm sorry if my thread isn't pleasing you by the way it's being handled, but it's sure helping me a lot with learning what the problem is or might be.
Going to BMW is one thing. Learning and trying to understand the problem is another.
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      04-08-2008, 09:07 AM   #99
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wow i think its good... thanks Mr. 5

some people r truely bwm driver and thats all they r...
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      04-08-2008, 12:12 PM   #100
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Mine just started to rattle at 4500 miles. But, mine only does it upon start up when hot for a second or two. I can grab the rod that I can see from the top and rattle it by hand. BTW, don't try this when hot! I burned my finger on the manifold even after only running for 30 seconds!
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      04-08-2008, 12:49 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Mine just started to rattle at 4500 miles. But, mine only does it upon start up when hot for a second or two. I can grab the rod that I can see from the top and rattle it by hand. BTW, don't try this when hot! I burned my finger on the manifold even after only running for 30 seconds!
Ya man, be careful!
The exhaust manifold there gets extremely hot. (I believe above 1000 degrees)
I actually have a couple scars on my thumb from touching it 30-45 minutes after my car turned off.
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      04-08-2008, 02:41 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I'm sorry if my thread isn't pleasing you by the way it's being handled, but it's sure helping me a lot with learning what the problem is or might be.
Going to BMW is one thing. Learning and trying to understand the problem is another.
You missed the point. What I was getting at is it's getting to the kicking dead horse point. It seems that the issue has been identified, but we're trying to come up with a solution. That seems like an inefficient use of time since BMW should be the ones doing that. The point is that do they KNOW this yet? Instead of yet another turbo assembly replacement, how about pointing to the real issue.

I understand the problem. Many do now too and that's all fine and great, but where's a real solution?
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      04-08-2008, 02:47 PM   #103
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^^^ I think I agree with a lot of that.

Shouldn't BMW be the ones fixing this? I know it may sound odd coming from me since I don't let anyone touch any of my car's, but this is truly their problem and their manufacturing or design screw up.

The correct thing here is that BMW needs to address this issue. Things of this nature do not occur from downpipes or basic modifications like 99% of the people on this board. (In my opinion downpipes, PROcedes and everything I have seen around here are basic modifications)
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      04-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
You missed the point. What I was getting at is it's getting to the kicking dead horse point. It seems that the issue has been identified, but we're trying to come up with a solution. That seems like an inefficient use of time since BMW should be the ones doing that. The point is that do they KNOW this yet? Instead of yet another turbo assembly replacement, how about pointing to the real issue.

I understand the problem. Many do now too and that's all fine and great, but where's a real solution?
OK, I understand, but I'm not going to bring this up to BMW. Somebody else can. Since I have stuff done to my car, they would most likely laugh--no matter how convincing my argument would be.
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      04-08-2008, 03:33 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post

I wonder what was changed with post January 17th builds....that they aren't included in this TSB
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      04-08-2008, 03:50 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
OK, I understand, but I'm not going to bring this up to BMW. Somebody else can. Since I have stuff done to my car, they would most likely laugh--no matter how convincing my argument would be.
Ill bring it up to BMW / dealership when i take it in later this week. I mentioned it to my SA over the phone yesterday, but ill remind him when i drop it off.
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      04-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
OK, I understand, but I'm not going to bring this up to BMW. Somebody else can. Since I have stuff done to my car, they would most likely laugh--no matter how convincing my argument would be.
And that is what is not right and why BMW should fix issues that are due to their faulty manufacturing, parts and/or engineering/design and not use the "mods" as a lame excuse to limit their liability. You should be able to drive into a dealership, modded, and have them fix this issue.

Thanks for your tinkering here-it adds greatly to overall knowledge, though I confess I am still confused as to what the real problem is and what the real solution is. My guess is BMW doesn't yet have it figured out yet either.
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      04-08-2008, 05:12 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by E30M3Driver View Post
Thanks for your tinkering here-it adds greatly to overall knowledge, though I confess I am still confused as to what the real problem is and what the real solution is. My guess is BMW doesn't yet have it figured out yet either.
I appreciate the remarks. I'm constantly thinking about this and I'm thinking about different things to do all the time.
I went to Home Depot today and picked up some more C clips since the others were to thick, but I'm a little hesitant with installing them only because there seems like there is something else that I'm overlooking.

This is what I'm thinking today:
What if BMW is correct about the wastegates not closing correctly.

What if the wastegate rod loosened making the rod longer. If this were to happen then the pressure by the wastegates on the hole inside the exhaust pipe wouldn't be as strong (as when i first bought the car) and therefore the ticking could be happening by the wastegates clicking against the hole.
If this is the case then all I need to do is adjust the rod by making the rod shorter. This would make the pressure on the wastegate hole greater and would minimize the ticking (if the ticking is really coming from there).

Like I said, I'm constantly thinking about this and it sucks that I have to go to work because I want to get started on this ASAP, but the reality is that I do have a job and a family so it looks lilke I won't get started on all of my thoughts until this weekend.
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      04-08-2008, 05:31 PM   #109
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If BMW still does not have a solution to your ticking problem and you really want to fix it, there's only one way to do it, which is take out both turbos, disassemble them, replace the factory rod with a shorter piece. I know our turbos are not particularly easy ones to disassemble since the exhaust manifolds and the turbines are one piece, but I always believe if someone can put them together, there's a way to seperate them. You can not bring this to a off the street shop, but a professional because as I said before, everything has to be spot on.
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      04-08-2008, 05:42 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPDFAN View Post
If BMW still does not have a solution to your ticking problem and you really want to fix it, there's only one way to do it, which is take out both turbos, disassemble them, replace the factory rod with a shorter piece. I know our turbos are not particularly easy ones to disassemble since the exhaust manifolds and the turbines are one piece, but I always believe if someone can put them together, there's a way to seperate them. You can not bring this to a off the street shop, but a professional because as I said before, everything has to be spot on.
You have to be confused about another piece.
The rod is adjustable.
See the threads on the rod?
Also, give me some credit man. You're making me sound like I'm some kind of idiot or something.
I guess I'm just the optimist here and you're the pessimist.


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