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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*



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      04-08-2008, 05:47 PM   #111
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Thanks for doing all this Mr. 5. I can't understand why people are giving you a hard time, you obviously know what you are doing so where's the harm in that? Best of luck getting that noise fixed, keep us posted on your findings please!
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      04-08-2008, 06:02 PM   #112
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It is great to see you take some initiative on this Mr. 5. Please keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by billspreston View Post
Thanks for doing all this Mr. 5. I can't understand why people are giving you a hard time, you obviously know what you are doing so where's the harm in that? Best of luck getting that noise fixed, keep us posted on your findings please!
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      04-08-2008, 10:37 PM   #113
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Mr. 5 and AU is the ticking very constant and ALWAYS ONLY on engine decel or does it occur during other times as well. Either my DPs are hitting against a heat shield or my car has developed the same issue. I'm guess DPs though since I just installed them a few days ago.
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      04-08-2008, 11:08 PM   #114
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Only at idle and decel.
For me, the ticking never happens at acceleration.
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      04-09-2008, 03:28 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Only at idle and decel.
For me, the ticking never happens at acceleration.
How about idel when in gear? All your vids seem to be in Park and the TSB mentions the sound only when no gear is engaged.
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      04-09-2008, 03:33 AM   #116
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I have that ticking noise on start up and idle. But never when in gear. I push my car quite hard and its already 8 months into ownsership. The ticking noise is most apparent on cold starts. But once in D, its never there. Well at least for me. I aint have no DPs as well for now.
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      04-09-2008, 03:58 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by elmariachi View Post
I have that ticking noise on start up and idle. But never when in gear. I push my car quite hard and its already 8 months into ownsership. The ticking noise is most apparent on cold starts. But once in D, its never there. Well at least for me. I aint have no DPs as well for now.

Just to make sure everyone knows, it is normal for our cars to "tick" and it is especially loud at could start up or with the hood up and standing in front of the car since you will her the DIer's clicking. I am not suggesting that is what you are hearing elmariachi but there was a post by someone a page back or so that sounded like what he was describing was the normal DI clicking sound.

But anyway, if the clicking from the wastegates is only present when the car is not in gear then that kind of blows the whole "clicking from loose wastegate actuator rod" theory doesn't it?

Mr 5 how about a video of your car idling in P then place it in D and lets see if the sound changes. BMW says the sound is from the flap not seating completely and that sounds very likely to me from listening to the cars with this problem, but it is still a little confusing as to why it doesn't make the sound when actually driving the car (if it in fact doesn't). The only thing I can think of is that under load there is enough pressure inside exhaust side of the turbo to force the flap tight so even though the rod isn't able to pull it shut tight on its own it doesn't matter when it is being slammed shut when it is in the closed position.
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      04-09-2008, 07:30 AM   #118
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Out of curiosity and I apologize if it was mentioned previously. But have you had someone else in the car and revved it up while observing the actuator rod. I am curios if you can see movement along the length of the rod or perpendicular to it.
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      04-09-2008, 09:01 AM   #119
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In my car, it wouldn't matter since I have a manual.
So, it does happen when in gear with the clutch in.

This is not the normal ticking sound at startup.
Pretend that you hear the normal ticking sound and then it only get's louder after startup.

Here's when the ticking is very present:

Downshift into second gear, and let the eninge wind down while in gear. The ticking is loud just like the deceleration when reving.

Notice that the ticking doesn't happen while the engine is winding up.
It only happens when the engine is winding down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
Just to make sure everyone knows, it is normal for our cars to "tick" and it is especially loud at could start up or with the hood up and standing in front of the car since you will her the DIer's clicking. I am not suggesting that is what you are hearing elmariachi but there was a post by someone a page back or so that sounded like what he was describing was the normal DI clicking sound.

But anyway, if the clicking from the wastegates is only present when the car is not in gear then that kind of blows the whole "clicking from loose wastegate actuator rod" theory doesn't it?

Mr 5 how about a video of your car idling in P then place it in D and lets see if the sound changes. BMW says the sound is from the flap not seating completely and that sounds very likely to me from listening to the cars with this problem, but it is still a little confusing as to why it doesn't make the sound when actually driving the car (if it in fact doesn't). The only thing I can think of is that under load there is enough pressure inside exhaust side of the turbo to force the flap tight so even though the rod isn't able to pull it shut tight on its own it doesn't matter when it is being slammed shut when it is in the closed position.
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      04-09-2008, 09:05 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Out of curiosity and I apologize if it was mentioned previously. But have you had someone else in the car and revved it up while observing the actuator rod. I am curios if you can see movement along the length of the rod or perpendicular to it.
I have. The rod is not moving under quick blips, but the rod does move the length of the rod after a good rev.
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      04-09-2008, 09:16 AM   #121
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I have the procede installed now.
I wanted to test out bypassing the solenoid to see if the rear solinoid is working correctly.
There could be a possibility that the rear solenoid isn't allowing enough vacuum into the actuator creating the rattling sound of the wastegate.

If I do this, what will happen?
I guess I cas always go back to the juice box to check it out.
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      04-09-2008, 10:06 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
Just to make sure everyone knows, it is normal for our cars to "tick" and it is especially loud at could start up or with the hood up and standing in front of the car since you will her the DIer's clicking. I am not suggesting that is what you are hearing elmariachi but there was a post by someone a page back or so that sounded like what he was describing was the normal DI clicking sound.

But anyway, if the clicking from the wastegates is only present when the car is not in gear then that kind of blows the whole "clicking from loose wastegate actuator rod" theory doesn't it?

Mr 5 how about a video of your car idling in P then place it in D and lets see if the sound changes. BMW says the sound is from the flap not seating completely and that sounds very likely to me from listening to the cars with this problem, but it is still a little confusing as to why it doesn't make the sound when actually driving the car (if it in fact doesn't). The only thing I can think of is that under load there is enough pressure inside exhaust side of the turbo to force the flap tight so even though the rod isn't able to pull it shut tight on its own it doesn't matter when it is being slammed shut when it is in the closed position.
Correct, this is not the DI sound. This is a card in the bike spokes kind of sound. I had someone start mine (6 spd)while I loosley held the rod and felt it vibrate until vacum was applied and tension placed on the rod. I would think the fix is to take the slop out of the linkage are maybe BMW needs to increase vacum to keep tension on the assembly. A bushing would probably do the trick to.
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      04-09-2008, 11:50 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Only at idle and decel.
For me, the ticking never happens at acceleration.
OK, so let's think about this for a moment. Correct me if I'm wrong but the wastegate is fully open at idle. When you accelerate you need boost. So the vacuum pulls the wastegate shut instantly when you accelerate. Then you let off or decelerate, there is no more need for boost. So the vaccum is released & the wastegates go back to fully open. Also when you idle there is no need for boost & they are open. The problem seems to be when they are in this position. Maybe the wastegate "door" is rattling against something. But I'm just thinking out loud here.
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      04-09-2008, 11:58 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Correct, this is not the DI sound. This is a card in the bike spokes kind of sound. I had someone start mine (6 spd)while I loosley held the rod and felt it vibrate until vacum was applied and tension placed on the rod. I would think the fix is to take the slop out of the linkage are maybe BMW needs to increase vacum to keep tension on the assembly. A bushing would probably do the trick to.
I realize Mr 5's ticking isn't the DI, but a couple of folks who chimed in with "I hear a ticking sound when my car is cold and I first start it up" might just be hearing the regular DI noise.

Also as others and even Mr 5 has pointed out, just because putting a lateral force on that rod decreases the sound, that doesn't prove it isn't coming from inside the turbo. BMW says it is the wastegate flap rattling on its orifice and some folks who have had the accuators replaced have had the problem fixed. In the video, to me at least, it sounds a lot more like the flap not closing tight rather than what I would expect from just that rod connector jingling around but who knows
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      04-09-2008, 12:10 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
OK, so let's think about this for a moment. Correct me if I'm wrong but the wastegate is fully open at idle. When you accelerate you need boost. So the vacuum pulls the wastegate shut instantly when you accelerate. Then you let off or decelerate, there is no more need for boost. So the vaccum is released & the wastegates go back to fully open. Also when you idle there is no need for boost & they are open. The problem seems to be when they are in this position. Maybe the wastegate "door" is rattling against something. But I'm just thinking out loud here.
Actually, suposedly the door is closed or partly closed at least at idle to improve emissions. But as far as it being the wastegate door rattling, that's not exactly a new concept since that is common knowledge and exactly what BMW already told us it is in the TSB linked in this thread The theory being discussed here is that it is not in fact the door rattling but rather the loose actuator arm mechanism.
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      04-09-2008, 12:29 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Should be:

Closed at idle

Open with the car off
Scalbert said this earlier in the thread, and I believe he is correct.
The wastegate is open when the car is off.
When you start the car, the electronicaly controled solenoid uses vacuum to close the wastegate. Hence, making the wastegate closed at idle.

The wastegate is closed at idle and during deceleration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
OK, so let's think about this for a moment. Correct me if I'm wrong but the wastegate is fully open at idle. When you accelerate you need boost. So the vacuum pulls the wastegate shut instantly when you accelerate. Then you let off or decelerate, there is no more need for boost. So the vaccum is released & the wastegates go back to fully open. Also when you idle there is no need for boost & they are open. The problem seems to be when they are in this position. Maybe the wastegate "door" is rattling against something. But I'm just thinking out loud here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
Actually, suposedly the door is closed or partly closed at least at idle to improve emissions. But as far as it being the wastegate door rattling, that's not exactly a new concept since that is common knowledge and exactly what BMW already told us it is in the TSB linked in this thread The theory being discussed here is that it is not in fact the door rattling but rather the loose actuator arm mechanism.
I really hope it is the wastegate dooor rattling, but I don't think it is.
I'll rule out this for sure this Friday.
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      04-09-2008, 02:08 PM   #127
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Quote:
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Mr 5, I have a brand new 135i (600 miles), and if I grab the actuator rod and move it around, I can wiggle the teardrop shaped piece about 1-1.5mm, with a rattling noise. I do not have the issue that I heard in your video though.

Apologies if that confuses things, but that's what my car does...

The actuator rod "head" is black on my car, but it looks identical to npb's pics.
That's like mine, but it does rattle for a second when I start the car hot.
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      04-09-2008, 02:23 PM   #128
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Update

I just bypassed the rear solenoid and the problem is still there, so obviously the rear solenoid is working fine.
I'm just going to stick the washer in there and see how it goes.
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      04-10-2008, 10:13 AM   #129
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I purchased a couple C clip washers the other day.
I picked the washer that looked like it was the best fit, but I had to sand down the washer a bit to make the width of the washer the same as the gap that I have.

I then stuck the C clip in place.
I made sure that the wastegates were still able to function (move back and forth) correctly.

I started up my car and the ticking has disappeared.
I revved up the engine and no ticking. (I previously did this with a putty knife, but the c clip is going to take the permanent approach for now)

I understand that this is a band aid and not the real fix.
I'll see if the ticking reappears. If it comes back and the C clip is still there then there is something that is becoming looser and looser inside the exhaust part of the turbo.

I'll take videos tomorrow so you can hear how the ticking has finally stopped.
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      04-10-2008, 10:21 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I'll take videos tomorrow so you can hear how the ticking has finally stopped.

Tenacious engineering! Nice man ... let us know what size of the c clip you picked up, some of us may keep those in our gloveboxes!
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      04-10-2008, 11:02 AM   #131
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This is great news and hopefully it is a fix. Thank you for keeping us in the loop. Do you need two washers, one for each wastegate?
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      04-10-2008, 11:20 AM   #132
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This is great news and hopefully it is a fix. Thank you for keeping us in the loop. Do you need two washers, one for each wastegate?
For me, it was only the linkage of the rear wastegate that was loose, so I only needed one washer.

Remember though that for right now I am calling this a temporary fix.
If the linkage never becomes any looser in the future then this will be a permanent fix until I decide if I ever want this matter addressed by BMW.

If I would have gone into BMW when I first heard this problem, they would have replaced my wastegate actuators, but based on what I found, new wastegate actuators would not have fixed the problem.

They need to replace the exhaust portion of the turbo that includes the actual wastegate.
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