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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*



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      06-13-2008, 11:57 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
It's a good thing that I took my car into the dealer before the software came out because I knew it wasn't going to work in my case.

The actuators are key to this fix.
Did you get your actuators replaced?

If yes,
Did it fix the problem? How is the car's performance after?
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      06-13-2008, 12:16 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWfan07 View Post
Did you get your actuators replaced?

If yes,
Did it fix the problem? How is the car's performance after?
Yes.
I got both actuators replaced even though the ticking only came from the rear.
The ticking sound is completely gone, and I'm completely happy.

Luckily for me, I just called my service advicor who happens to be the service manager and told him about my issues and I communicated the SIB number. He ordered the parts for me once we ended the phone call because he knows that I know what I'm talking about.
This saved me the hastle of going there just for them to tell me what I already know.

My car was there for 2.5 days and I've had no problems whatsoever.
The actuators are the problem here and I'll tell you why:

The internal workings, aka the diaphram, is failing. Since the actuators are vacuum operated, the vacuum is what is pulling the actuator rod into the diaphram.
When I was putting my OEM dowmpipes back on my car, my friend and I did a test with the rear actuator. We took the vacuum hose off of the actuator and connected a hand pump to the rear actuator. We used the pump to activate the actuator so it would close the wastegate. We did this until the actuator couldn't go any further. The actuator could not pull back the wastegate any further, so the next step was to check the wastegate. At this point the wastegate should be making a solid seal (the wastegate should be completely closed). Well, my wastegate was not closed all the way.
This is the ticking sound. The wastegate is rattling against the seal.


So think about it. Even if the dealer updated the software to tell my actuator to close my wastegate harder, then it wouldn't have happened since my actuator was already maxed out.
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      06-13-2008, 12:32 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Yes.
I got both actuators replaced even though the ticking only came from the rear.
The ticking sound is completely gone, and I'm completely happy.

Luckily for me, I just called my service advicor who happens to be the service manager and told him about my issues and I communicated the SIB number. He ordered the parts for me once we ended the phone call because he knows that I know what I'm talking about.
This saved me the hastle of going there just for them to tell me what I already know.

My car was there for 2.5 days and I've had no problems whatsoever.
The actuators are the problem here and I'll tell you why:

The internal workings, aka the diaphram, is failing. Since the actuators are vacuum operated, the vacuum is what is pulling the actuator rod into the diaphram.
When I was putting my OEM dowmpipes back on my car, my friend and I did a test with the rear actuator. We took the vacuum hose off of the actuator and connected a hand pump to the rear actuator. We used the pump to activate the actuator so it would close the wastegate. We did this until the actuator couldn't go any further. The actuator could not pull back the wastegate any further, so the next step was to check the wastegate. At this point the wastegate should be making a solid seal (the wastegate should be completely closed). Well, my wastegate was not closed all the way.
This is the ticking sound. The wastegate is rattling against the seal.
The Service manager at my dealer is just a kid, he was/is my SA. He had not heard of this problem before which did not impress me. I just when they act like, "Well, you are the only one who has reported this issue to us". Really! Well, then I told him the SIB number so he could do some reading and educate himself.

I did talk to the shop foreman at a dealership that is actually closer to my home, he told me has a 335 and it is noisier than mine. However, he said he is in no hurry to fix it because it's not affecting his engine nor performance. I disagree with him on performance, I have noticed more turbo lag, it is not my imagination.

I will likely get my actuators replaced at the dealer which is closer and the foreman knows about the problem more. However, the issue is that they wont give me a free loaner car because I did not buy this car at their dealership. I did buy a new BMW there many years ago, but they said it is their policy and of most dealers. I got a free loaner yesterday where I bought my car and they had my car all day for nothing.

I'm glad to hear you finally got a resolution to your rattle problem. I have been reading your posts and following your story for a while now. Hope my results are as good as yours. I really like my car and the thought of them tearing into the engine bay scares me.

How did they replace your actuators? Did they need to remove the engine from the car to do it?
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      06-13-2008, 05:44 PM   #180
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I'm sorry to hear you having such a problem. They shouldn't be treating you like this. I have around 4 BMW dealerships that I could go to and I've chosen my dealership for service mainly because of how I'm treated.
I did not purchase my car from them, but I get free rentals and loaners from them any time I get warranty work done. Maybe it's because I've taken the last 4 BMWs that I've had to them for service.

Are you saying that they won't give you a free reantal car also? They better because I'm sure that this is BMWNA's policy. I could be wrong but I think it's weird that they won't give you a loaner of some sort. Yes, I would rather drive a BMW than a Dodge neon, but at least it's something.

To answer your last question, the rear actuator can be done from strictly taking off the OEM downpipes, but the front actuator is much harder to do since the front actuator is in between the turbo and the block. So, in order to do the front actuator they need to take off the front turbo and exchange the actuators on the bench. This is what takes the longest.

Honestly, the rear actuator was the only one that was failing and I could have done that actuator by myself, but it's good that BMW is replacing both.
I wouldn't want to attempt the front one myself. Unbolting the complete front turbo/exhaust manifold does not sound like fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWfan07 View Post
The Service manager at my dealer is just a kid, he was/is my SA. He had not heard of this problem before which did not impress me. I just when they act like, "Well, you are the only one who has reported this issue to us". Really! Well, then I told him the SIB number so he could do some reading and educate himself.

I did talk to the shop foreman at a dealership that is actually closer to my home, he told me has a 335 and it is noisier than mine. However, he said he is in no hurry to fix it because it's not affecting his engine nor performance. I disagree with him on performance, I have noticed more turbo lag, it is not my imagination.

I will likely get my actuators replaced at the dealer which is closer and the foreman knows about the problem more. However, the issue is that they wont give me a free loaner car because I did not buy this car at their dealership. I did buy a new BMW there many years ago, but they said it is their policy and of most dealers. I got a free loaner yesterday where I bought my car and they had my car all day for nothing.

I'm glad to hear you finally got a resolution to your rattle problem. I have been reading your posts and following your story for a while now. Hope my results are as good as yours. I really like my car and the thought of them tearing into the engine bay scares me.

How did they replace your actuators? Did they need to remove the engine from the car to do it?
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      06-13-2008, 10:33 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I'm sorry to hear you having such a problem. They shouldn't be treating you like this. I have around 4 BMW dealerships that I could go to and I've chosen my dealership for service mainly because of how I'm treated.
I did not purchase my car from them, but I get free rentals and loaners from them any time I get warranty work done. Maybe it's because I've taken the last 4 BMWs that I've had to them for service.

Are you saying that they won't give you a free reantal car also? They better because I'm sure that this is BMWNA's policy. I could be wrong but I think it's weird that they won't give you a loaner of some sort. Yes, I would rather drive a BMW than a Dodge neon, but at least it's something.

To answer your last question, the rear actuator can be done from strictly taking off the OEM downpipes, but the front actuator is much harder to do since the front actuator is in between the turbo and the block. So, in order to do the front actuator they need to take off the front turbo and exchange the actuators on the bench. This is what takes the longest.

Honestly, the rear actuator was the only one that was failing and I could have done that actuator by myself, but it's good that BMW is replacing both.
I wouldn't want to attempt the front one myself. Unbolting the complete front turbo/exhaust manifold does not sound like fun.
I think I need to call or e-mail BMWNA regarding the loaner car issue. The dealer that is closest to me will not give me any loaner at all, no car, BMW or otherwise. It does not seem right, you own a car that a car manufacturer knows has an issue they are aware of with their cars, you need to leave the car at a dealer for 3 days for repair, and your mode of transportation for those 3 days is your problem, unless as was stated, you bought your BMW from the dealer who is performing the repair.

In my case, I was told that the actuator for the turbo on cylinders 1 thru 3 is the one causing my rattle. I don't know if that is the front or rear turbo.
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      06-13-2008, 11:05 PM   #182
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Had the "rattling or ticking" problem for a couple months. Finally brought my car to the dealer last week. They fixed it, replaced some parts near the wastegate and reprogrammed my car. everything works fine, except the exhaust is very loud now.. It drones at low rev (2K-3K) very unpleasant to hear. Just made an appointment with my SA to bring it back in next week. Not sure if anyone here is having the same issue after fixed the rattling problem.
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      06-14-2008, 05:45 AM   #183
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wow....i wonder if this is my problem since my ticking is exact to the videos. I replaced both turbos with no warranty through bmw and the ticking was still there. SO lesson is dont listen to your dealer all the time.

They told me the ticking noise i had was the wastegate and that my modifications were cooking the wastegate and only repair is to replace both turbos...well 7 thousand dollars later and the ticking remains unchanged. going to take this thread to my performance shop to have them check it out. I kept both core turbos thats the dealer replaced and the wastegates look fine. expensive mess i know
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      06-14-2008, 01:39 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lablueboy View Post
Had the "rattling or ticking" problem for a couple months. Finally brought my car to the dealer last week. They fixed it, replaced some parts near the wastegate and reprogrammed my car. everything works fine, except the exhaust is very loud now.. It drones at low rev (2K-3K) very unpleasant to hear. Just made an appointment with my SA to bring it back in next week. Not sure if anyone here is having the same issue after fixed the rattling problem.
I never had a problem with teh droning but remember that my software did not get updated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supramano View Post
wow....i wonder if this is my problem since my ticking is exact to the videos. I replaced both turbos with no warranty through bmw and the ticking was still there. SO lesson is dont listen to your dealer all the time.

They told me the ticking noise i had was the wastegate and that my modifications were cooking the wastegate and only repair is to replace both turbos...well 7 thousand dollars later and the ticking remains unchanged. going to take this thread to my performance shop to have them check it out. I kept both core turbos thats the dealer replaced and the wastegates look fine. expensive mess i know
This is why hanving the knowledge of the SIB is important. BMW would not have an SIB for the wastegate issue if modifications were the cause of the problem. It's too bad you paid for nothing.
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      06-15-2008, 09:32 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lablueboy View Post
Had the "rattling or ticking" problem for a couple months. Finally brought my car to the dealer last week. They fixed it, replaced some parts near the wastegate and reprogrammed my car. everything works fine, except the exhaust is very loud now.. It drones at low rev (2K-3K) very unpleasant to hear. Just made an appointment with my SA to bring it back in next week. Not sure if anyone here is having the same issue after fixed the rattling problem.
Please report what they tell you is causing the drone and louder exhaust. I had the software update and it did not make the rattling go away completely.

However, it does seem to rattle less often. My rattle was more noticeable, but now after the software update, it does seem to rattle more when the engine is cold. After I drive the car pretty hard, it rattles little or not at all. Not sure why, anybody have an idea why that might happen??

My dealer wants to order the waste gate actuators, but I am not sure I want to replace the parts right away.

I am really worried about my car running bad after the dealer messes with it. I was frustrated after I picked my car up after the software update, all the shortcuts on the i-drive were erased, all the settings on the stereo equalizer were back to default, logic 7 was off, and they moved my seats and mirrors. Now my driver's seat makes a creaking sound when I accelerate. Uggh!!
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      06-17-2008, 11:30 AM   #186
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I have this ticking or rattling noise as the engine decelerates.

When I took mine in for an oil change last week on Thursday, I mentioned to them to look that over and gave them a copy of the SIB. Later that day after looking everything over they came back with the opinion that the software update or an actuator replacement wouldn't resolve this and instead decided on a plan to replace both turbos as per the discussion they had with BMW.

I looked at the removed turbos which has the shaft sticking out which moves the wastegate. This shaft is loose in all directions and when you shake it, produces the noise I was hearing. It appears to have as much as 2mm of play in all directions.

The new turbos apparently have a new part number and the one they had seems to have heavier hardware connecting the actuator rod to the wastegate shaft and lever. I'm not sure if there are any other diffences between the new and the old part numbers. There is play in this shaft as well but axially confined and no more than 1 mm in and out.

They're waiting on the 2nd turbo to arrive so they can put everything back together again.

I can see how taking the play out between the actuator arm and the wastegate shaft lever might reduce the noise coming from the shaft, but in my case, the noise really appears to come entirely from the wastegate shaft itself which suffers from an excessive amount of play.

I may know as early as today if the turbo replacement plan was successful or not.

Currently, I have about 46,000 km on it. No problems until this came up.
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      06-17-2008, 11:41 AM   #187
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Interesting about the new turbo you're getting...wonder if they've already started putting these into their production cars...when was your produced? Any chance you could find out from the dealer if they've started getting new cars with this turbo in them?
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      06-17-2008, 11:48 AM   #188
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Are you absolutely positively sure that they are reaplacing the complete turbo?
If so then your dealer did not read that SIB correctly.
All they need to do is replace the actuators and the problem is solved.
I understand that your linkage is very loose but so was mine.
Once the correctly operating acutaors are in place then the linkage will not be loose anymore since the actuators are doing their job by making everything tight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weiher View Post
I have this ticking or rattling noise as the engine decelerates.

When I took mine in for an oil change last week on Thursday, I mentioned to them to look that over and gave them a copy of the SIB. Later that day after looking everything over they came back with the opinion that the software update or an actuator replacement wouldn't resolve this and instead decided on a plan to replace both turbos as per the discussion they had with BMW.

I looked at the removed turbos which has the shaft sticking out which moves the wastegate. This shaft is loose in all directions and when you shake it, produces the noise I was hearing. It appears to have as much as 2mm of play in all directions.

The new turbos apparently have a new part number and the one they had seems to have heavier hardware connecting the actuator rod to the wastegate shaft and lever. I'm not sure if there are any other diffences between the new and the old part numbers. There is play in this shaft as well but axially confined and no more than 1 mm in and out.

They're waiting on the 2nd turbo to arrive so they can put everything back together again.

I can see how taking the play out between the actuator arm and the wastegate shaft lever might reduce the noise coming from the shaft, but in my case, the noise really appears to come entirely from the wastegate shaft itself which suffers from an excessive amount of play.

I may know as early as today if the turbo replacement plan was successful or not.

Currently, I have about 46,000 km on it. No problems until this came up.
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      06-19-2008, 12:57 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Are you absolutely positively sure that they are reaplacing the complete turbo?
If so then your dealer did not read that SIB correctly.
All they need to do is replace the actuators and the problem is solved.
I understand that your linkage is very loose but so was mine.
Once the correctly operating acutaors are in place then the linkage will not be loose anymore since the actuators are doing their job by making everything tight.
Thats weird too. I had BOTH my actuators replaced and the noise is still there. My dealership has ordered for me a pair of new turbos and I am sending the car in on Monday to get it fixed. I can confirm if the new turbos actually solve my problem. BTW, they inspected my car and stated the turbos were fine but the wastegate actuator linkage is severely loose. Even after changing the actuators, I still have the sound. Recently, i got a CEL upon accelerating and I dont know if it could be the wastegate. Hopefully the new turbos solve everything. My car is stock except for my exhuast.
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      06-19-2008, 01:19 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWfan07 View Post
Please report what they tell you is causing the drone and louder exhaust. I had the software update and it did not make the rattling go away completely.

However, it does seem to rattle less often. My rattle was more noticeable, but now after the software update, it does seem to rattle more when the engine is cold. After I drive the car pretty hard, it rattles little or not at all. Not sure why, anybody have an idea why that might happen??

My dealer wants to order the waste gate actuators, but I am not sure I want to replace the parts right away.

I am really worried about my car running bad after the dealer messes with it. I was frustrated after I picked my car up after the software update, all the shortcuts on the i-drive were erased, all the settings on the stereo equalizer were back to default, logic 7 was off, and they moved my seats and mirrors. Now my driver's seat makes a creaking sound when I accelerate. Uggh!!
Looks like they reprogrammed your car too. Yeah my navi presets were reset. I got the car back two days ago. They found the rattling were still there. To "fix" it, the paperwork says "Removed Catalystic converter", "remove wastegate actuator", "adjust lash to 0".. not sure what the last item is. The car seems to work fine now. no more rattling or droning.
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      06-19-2008, 02:03 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Are you absolutely positively sure that they are reaplacing the complete turbo?
If so then your dealer did not read that SIB correctly.
All they need to do is replace the actuators and the problem is solved.
I understand that your linkage is very loose but so was mine.
Once the correctly operating acutaors are in place then the linkage will not be loose anymore since the actuators are doing their job by making everything tight.

Howdy Mr. 5 - good work on your part tracking down and disecting this issue - it was very helpful and insightful.

In my case, Yup - they replaced both turbos which seems to have included the actuators and connecting hardware. There's not a rattle, tap, click or anything to be heard except what's supposed to be heard. Absolutley perfect.

When they originally told me the plan, I told them to stop everything and we'd go over this SIB again but they said they had been on and off the phone all morning with BMW and this is what they collectively came up with. When I went there and actually saw how bad the wastegate shaft was - where it goes thru the turbo/wastegate housing, quite frankly I didn't want that back on the car. It was completely loose like it was ready to fall out. Of course, the valve inside keeps the shaft from falling out along with whatever retaining hardware is in there, but the point is there was so much play in the shaft that I couldn't see how it could possibly function properly. This isn't the hardware that runs between the actuator and the lever connected to the shaft, this is the actual shaft.

On the new one I looked at, like I mentioned before, there was play in the shaft but only slightly along the direction of the shaft axis. Much tighter. No sideways or angular slop.

There's currently no arguing with success - so far they seemed to have nailed it. Only time will tell.
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      06-19-2008, 02:19 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmariachi View Post
Thats weird too. I had BOTH my actuators replaced and the noise is still there. My dealership has ordered for me a pair of new turbos and I am sending the car in on Monday to get it fixed. I can confirm if the new turbos actually solve my problem. BTW, they inspected my car and stated the turbos were fine but the wastegate actuator linkage is severely loose. Even after changing the actuators, I still have the sound. Recently, i got a CEL upon accelerating and I dont know if it could be the wastegate. Hopefully the new turbos solve everything. My car is stock except for my exhuast.
After 24 hrs so far, that very repair has completely removed any tap, rattle or whatever from my car. I am absolutely delighted the way it sounds.

If your wastegate valve shaft has the amount of slop mine did, then it seems reasonable to me that you'd probably see excessive play in that linkage assembly that is attached to it.
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      06-19-2008, 07:20 PM   #193
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I got my wastegates replaced 4 months ago and now the noise is back.....not happy!!
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      06-19-2008, 11:02 PM   #194
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I got my wastegates replaced 4 months ago and now the noise is back.....not happy!!
Did you get the wastegates replaces or the actuators replaced?
If the actuators, then you most likely have to get the new software, and that will most likely suck, since many are complaining about the lag.
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      06-19-2008, 11:10 PM   #195
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Mr.5... have you ever heard about a actuator arm moving at idle.
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      06-24-2008, 02:37 PM   #196
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Someone mentioned that one way of knowing that you have 29.2 is that the main menu color on the i-drive/Nav is now silver and not brown. Well, I just had a complete reprogram of my car car 11 days ago, and the color of the main menu is still brown. They did not tell me what version number of software I have now.

They did the software update to try and rid my car of the rattle caused by the waste gate actuators, it did not work. They now want to replace both turbo waste gate actuators. My car was reprogrammed for hours at the dealer, an absolute waste of time.

I called my SA to ask him what version of software I have on my car after their failed software fix for waste gate noise. I wanted to know the PROGMAN version but he didn't know. Huh??

He said I previously had software version E89X0703516 and I now have E89X0803530. What PROGMAN version is that?? Anybody know?

There is no way in hell that I have 300 lb ft of torque at 1500 rpm!!
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      06-24-2008, 07:59 PM   #197
JonnyBoost
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so i need some advice i have had my car in and out of the shop the last 3 weeks due to the wast gate. after 2 new wastgates 1 new turbo and 3 weeks the problem is still present and now the dealer is telling me that thers nothing more they can do for me so i call bmw na and they tell me the same thing. they say the bmw techs car which is also n54
is louder then mine. so i guess that makes it ok WTF.
NEED SOME HELP THX JON
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      06-24-2008, 08:06 PM   #198
JonnyBoost
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oh ya im 100% stock
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