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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > SWS 8 upgrade with MTX amp!



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      04-20-2008, 07:12 AM   #45
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What alot of installers do here is take new feeds from the speaker level outputs, bypassing the amp completely for a full range signal, but, and this is impaortant, leaving the amp connected up via most bus and with power in the trunk so the car doesn't throw a wobbly.
This also means when the dealer tries to programme the car there isn't any error codes.

Obviously the graphic on the head unit no longer works, as this, as I am sure you know is a graphic for the amp not the head unit.
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      04-20-2008, 01:43 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkuf View Post

It would help allot if you could answer a couple of questions.
I guess your signal for your new subs are travelling from the stock amp up to the front seats and back again to the trunk into your Thunder amp? Did you think about tapping into the wires off the stock amp and using the stock wires for your new subs at all? I'm asking because that's what I'm essentially going to do, except I'm keeping the stock subs instead of replacing them. I know somebody asked a similar question earlier, but like I said, I'm new at this and I didn't quite understand... It seems to me that even if you wanted new wires for your new subs, it'd be better to keep the signal travel to minimum by keeping them within the trunk...
Just like what Technic said, the OEM amp is digital so we dont need a direct feed from the head unit. I used new speaker wires for the new subs because the stock speaker wires (which were from the snap on connecter) is connected to the stock amp, which i dont wanna use. The new speaker wires is connected to the SWS powered by the MTX amp. Dont get confused though, the speaker wires and the wires getting signal (that green and pink one) are two diff kinds of wires.
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      04-21-2008, 01:01 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
From the Crutchfield MTX description:



Not only you do not need any external LOC to connect factory speaker level outputs to this amp, you don't need a separate remote turn on signal either, as this amp has signal sensing-speaker level inputs.
Yeah, I figured that something like that would be the case, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't totally off since I just started learning about this stuff like a week ago. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by LaYzEe View Post
I used new speaker wires for the new subs because the stock speaker wires (which were from the snap on connecter) is connected to the stock amp, which i dont wanna use.
I guess I was just wondering why you decided to connect the signal wires (green and pink in the picture) from the end of the stock sub wires (which I assume ended up in the front seat area) rather than just splicing it from near the stock amp. If you splice it off the stock sub wires near the stock amp, I can imagine cutting the signal travel distance by about ten feet, not that I know what good that would do, but I heard something about the longer the wires, the more chance they pick up noise? It's really not that important, actually.

I guess with your set up, it's a whole lot cleaner and if you ever wanted to go back to the stock subs, it can be done without anyone finding out (other than the people on this forum, that is ).

Anyway, I like your set up, it seems like your set up is really clean and cool. I'm only asking so many questions because I can definitely see myself getting a similar set up one day. Thanks for kindly responding to my questions.
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      04-21-2008, 12:56 PM   #48
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OK, I had a play with these subs today, they are being driven by a Blaupunkt THA555 amp.

I first put them in without sealing them, to be honest I didn't think they were that much better than the stock subs being driven by the blaupunkt amp.
So I took them out again and sealed them properly with silicon sealer, all round the edge of the driver and then loads into the hole where the cable goes into the cabinet.


WOW!!!!

These things when sealed go seriously low, and they have so much more control, my amps gain was 2/3 of the way round to get any volume without them sealed, and now it is only 1/4 to get the same volume.

These drivers are designed for a sealed encloure, the need to be sealed, and the sills give it a fairly decent cabinet size, I would guess around .7 cuft if it goes back as far as the back seat.

This is as good a system now as in my last car which cost me £2000. Very impressed.
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      04-21-2008, 01:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkuf View Post
Anyway, I like your set up, it seems like your set up is really clean and cool. I'm only asking so many questions because I can definitely see myself getting a similar set up one day. Thanks for kindly responding to my questions.
No prob man! But yeh, I really have to thank my uncle becuase he was the brains on the project. I'm still impressed on how he was able to get the wires from the subs to meet in the middle then go thru the center console! I was like are you serious!? thats amazing! LoL

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Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post


WOW!!!!

These things when sealed go seriously low, and they have so much more control, my amps gain was 2/3 of the way round to get any volume without them sealed, and now it is only 1/4 to get the same volume.

These drivers are designed for a sealed encloure, the need to be sealed, and the sills give it a fairly decent cabinet size, I would guess around .7 cuft if it goes back as far as the back seat.

This is as good a system now as in my last car which cost me £2000. Very impressed.
Yeh when we first connected the amp to the battery we tested one sub out, it was alright i guess. I did notice it was much better than the stock subs tho. But when we placed both of the SWS' back in the enclosure and sealed it OMG Big ass diff!
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      04-21-2008, 07:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
OK, I had a play with these subs today, they are being driven by a Blaupunkt THA555 amp.

I first put them in without sealing them, to be honest I didn't think they were that much better than the stock subs being driven by the blaupunkt amp.
So I took them out again and sealed them properly with silicon sealer, all round the edge of the driver and then loads into the hole where the cable goes into the cabinet.


WOW!!!!

These things when sealed go seriously low, and they have so much more control, my amps gain was 2/3 of the way round to get any volume without them sealed, and now it is only 1/4 to get the same volume.

These drivers are designed for a sealed encloure, the need to be sealed, and the sills give it a fairly decent cabinet size, I would guess around .7 cuft if it goes back as far as the back seat.

This is as good a system now as in my last car which cost me £2000. Very impressed.
Hmm... I wonder if sealing the stock subs would yield a big improvement. Might be a nice stage 0.1 upgrade that you can do quickly while you are waiting to order your new equipment.
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      04-22-2008, 03:23 AM   #51
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The stock subs are sealed, that is the point.

By sealing I am talking about sealing the driver at the top, not the port that attches to the door sills.

BMW have designed the best thing for car audio since car manufacturing started, they have designed a sealed subwoofer enclosure, in the fornt of the cabin!!
This intergrates the bass with the front sound stage and negates the need for time alignment to get the bass/beats up on the dash board and in front of you, it is already there!! It also means you can cross your subs over at as high as 150hz so you get real mid range punch, and take away stress from the front speakers. Try doing that with a sub in the boot and it sounds awful, it is obvious the bass is coming from the trunk. Even when crossed over at say 60hz with a 12db slope I still have to have time alignment, I hate that 'beat behind you' sound'. Hear a system with time alignment pulling the speakers all together and it sounds so, so much better.
You could if you wanted stop all bass below 35hz going to these subs and add a 10 or 12" sub in the boot as well, below 35" direction starts to become less important. This would give you a serious system that would go really low when required but also be very musical too.

So when fitting these drivers buy a tube of sealent and makes sure the driver is completely sealed so all air is pushed into the sills as it was designed, if you leave a gap up top, no matter how small you will loose serious volume.
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      04-22-2008, 10:47 AM   #52
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What's the minimum wattage needed to power those SWS-8s and get a decent sound improvement? Would 50wpc (from an aftermarket amp) do the job? Could I keep the stock wiring or do they need bigger wires? Yow! This is a must-do!
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      04-22-2008, 11:44 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supr7 View Post
What's the minimum wattage needed to power those SWS-8s and get a decent sound improvement? Would 50wpc (from an aftermarket amp) do the job? Could I keep the stock wiring or do they need bigger wires? Yow! This is a must-do!
You will need at least 100W RMS to really move them...
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      04-22-2008, 01:55 PM   #54
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Good Write up,

You convinced me, just ordered a pair from Fleabay
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      04-22-2008, 10:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
The stock subs are sealed, that is the point.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
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      04-23-2008, 12:44 AM   #56
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I got these subs a little over a year ago and pretty much forgot bout them after I moved. Thanks to this thread Im finally going to get it done. How were you able to get the subs to sit perfectly in the enclosure using only dynamat? According to their website the Dynamat Original is only .070" thick and .067" for Extreme.

I had to use a 1/2" MDF spacer so that there was absolutely no movement. Some said 1/4" would work but it was still too thin for me. Still need to seal the edges and run the wires.


Last edited by M335i; 04-23-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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      04-23-2008, 12:44 AM   #57
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Oh does anyone have an extra grill they dont need? I think I lost mine during the move.
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      04-23-2008, 01:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackb View Post
Good Write up,

You convinced me, just ordered a pair from Fleabay
glad that you like this set up

Quote:
Originally Posted by M335i View Post
How were you able to get the subs to sit perfectly in the enclosure using only dynamat? According to their website the Dynamat Original is only .070" thick and .067" for Extreme.

I had to use a 1/2" MDF spacer so that there was absolutely no movement. Some said 1/4" would work but it was still too thin for me.
Since the SWS were slighty taller, I also had to make my own 1/2" spacers. Then I covered the ring, the edges and corners with dynamat to get enough seal so nothing can leak out from it.
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      04-23-2008, 03:33 PM   #59
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Deleted , out of context

Last edited by jackb; 04-24-2008 at 06:42 AM.
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      04-23-2008, 03:36 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M335i View Post
I got these subs a little over a year ago and pretty much forgot bout them after I moved. Thanks to this thread Im finally going to get it done. How were you able to get the subs to sit perfectly in the enclosure using only dynamat? According to their website the Dynamat Original is only .070" thick and .067" for Extreme.

I had to use a 1/2" MDF spacer so that there was absolutely no movement. Some said 1/4" would work but it was still too thin for me. Still need to seal the edges and run the wires.

Did you keep a copy of the templates you did for the spacers?
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      04-23-2008, 03:37 PM   #61
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That looks perfect mate.. for those that don't want to make a spacer you don't have to if you use a quick drying silicone sealer, put a bead round the edge of the cabinet and let it dry. This will seal any gaps.
The basket of the SWS-8 can touch the bottom of the cabinet, it is a tough basket.
There is also some ridges that stick up about 7mm on the inside on the bottom of the cabinet, use some pliers to snap these off, this gives you enough room.
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      04-23-2008, 03:57 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackb View Post
Did you keep a copy of the templates you did for the spacers?
Just the 1/4" MDF I orignally made, think i tossed the paper ones.

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Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
There is also some ridges that stick up about 7mm on the inside on the bottom of the cabinet, use some pliers to snap these off, this gives you enough room.
Can you point out which ridges your talking about? As you can see in my pics I tried sanding down some areas but still did not provide enough clearance. I rather not have the sub touch the enclosure at all.
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      04-23-2008, 04:05 PM   #63
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The ones in this pic that run all over the bottom, just snap them off with pliers.

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      04-23-2008, 06:22 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Ok you never mentioned spacers in your original post ( that's an important info )

what did you use as spacers?
To be fair, I think he actually did.

"BUT the SWS are a little bit taller for the enclosure so u have to find a way to make some sort of bracket so it doesn’t touch the bottom part. I placed dynamat all around and placed spacers around each holes as my way."

It's easy to miss though with all the pictures just demanding more attention...
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      04-23-2008, 10:20 PM   #65
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^^^hehe, thanks hkkuf, I was about to quote my first paragraph too but it looks like u beat me to it. I actually used a pen, cut it into four 1/2 inch pieces and used that as my spacers...hehehe then used longer screws and it was good to go! lol. Even when we were testing the subs in the sealed enclosure, no rattling, vibrations, leaks noted.

M335i, thats a nice ass bracket u made! nice job!
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      04-24-2008, 01:53 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
The ones in this pic that run all over the bottom, just snap them off with pliers.
Strange.. I snapped off the bottom ones today and the sub still doesnt sit completely flat... looks as if I need to remove the top ones too. Oh well i got spacers anyways.

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Originally Posted by LaYzEe View Post
M335i, thats a nice ass bracket u made! nice job!
Thanks.. I just finished the second one today so hopefully I have time to install em over the weekend. Just gotta figure out where to mount the amp... kinda hesitant to drill holes in the back seat.
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