[shack]

I'm beginning to think it was a *dipstick* who thought up the engine in which you can only check the oil electronically via the BC.

With only 100 mi on the E91, BC showed below min - add 1 quart. I was suspicious because my 2002 325xiT never needed a quart in 40,000mi. I called the dealer - they said bring it in. Not wanting to drive the car below min oil level I added a quart and - you guessed it - BC still showed below min; add 1 quart. I now knew there was a sensor/BC problem, but I've got 1 quart too much oil in the engine so I take it to the dealer for them to remove the extra oil and (hopefully) fix the false reading issue.

Well the service manager says this is a known problem - in fact they had some dude come in who had added like 6 quarts and almost blew the rings out of the engine. I asked why in the Wide World of Sports they didn't tell me about the bug when I took delivery. They said sorry, they'll go back in the shop and remove excess oil and check the proper level with the "BMW Service Tech only" dipstick. Five minutes later they tell me that - in fact - there is no dipstick at all and that the only way they can check the oil is via electronic system which misreads the oil in something like 2 out of 10 E90/E91 they have delivered due to a "known" (at least to BMW) software flaw.

So, the only way they can get the right amount of oil in the engine is to drain it all out, guesstimate there is a half quart in the filter and pour back 6.5 quarts of the (old) oil. This they accomplish and thankfully the oil reading problem is intermittent and when it does work it is spot on full.

I'm guessing before they get the software debugged a number of engines are going to be ruined due to bad oil levels - mostly too high.

I'm also guessing they regret the decision to not put in a dipstick as a back-up to the (flawed) technology and they will add it back to the engine.

No clue when the software glitch will be resolved (Nov 05 build). YGBSM.... :mad:

[mwilli]

Thats not good.

[espo]

Thats not good.... Atleast it seems mine is one of the 8 out of 10 E90's that reads correct. Each time I've checked the oil it read just about full with 3500 miles on the car. Sep build.

Is there a TSB on this one?

[shack]

Yes, i'd like to hear what E90Fleet knows about thiis problem and potential TSB(s) to resolve it.

[ward]

it would be a worse problem if it didn't tell you when you were low on oil

[ben1364]

This is a strange one that, in my opinion can only indicate that BMW, like the other German car builders are gadget crazy. Surely the electronic sensor costs at least as much as a conventional dip stick; at least it seems so to me. My sensor reads high sometimes and low sometimes. As someone else said, BMW cages typically do not consume much oil. I wish the company would get over this obsession with electronics and get back to the basics. The Germans are the absolute worst at electronics in my opinion. Hey, GM and Ford are much better!

[shack]

While we're at it, my other peeve is no temp gauge. When it's 30 below here in Canada I always let my E46 temp guage come off the cold peg before I would drive it. Now it's all guesswork with E91 - currently warming up 1 min for every 10 degrees below zero.

I'd much rather have a temp gauge than that wildly swinging fuel consumption gauge which doesn't change anyone's driving habits...

[roppongicorolla]

Dipsticks aren't always accurate, especially if they aren't used correctly. Still, I wish this car had one.

I also second the call for a temp gauge, so we're not left guessing whether the engine is warm enough to gas it.

[wac77]

Something similar happened to me. At 2000 miles or so, the sensor showed MIN and said add a quart. I did. A day later, after briefly showing 1/4 above MIN, the sensor showed MIN again. I didn't add any more oil. Instead, I took the car to the dealer, they made some SW reset, and it's showing MAX ever since. I guess you cannot really trust the sensor for a couple of days after you add oil!

I was on the fence on the lack of a dipstick, but now I know it's a bad idea.

[HRC]

The temp gauge is not the temp of the engine oil, so it's not going to tell you if the engine is warm. Typically, it takes oil two to three time longer to heat up.

Danny

[shack]

Right, but seeing the water temperature at least on the rise off the peg gives you a better feeling about feeding in the RPMs than being totally clueless on warmth of the powerplant.

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by shack

While we're at it, my other peeve is no temp gauge. When it's 30 below here in Canada I always let my E46 temp guage come off the cold peg before I would drive it. Now it's all guesswork with E91 - currently warming up 1 min for every 10 degrees below zero.

I'd much rather have a temp gauge than that wildly swinging fuel consumption gauge which doesn't change anyone's driving habits...

Just to let you know, it's bad to idle the engine when it's cold. It's running rich so you can cause excessive fuel dilution to your oil in the long run and for the fact most wear & tear on an engine happens within the first ~10 mins. of driving so your only delaying the warm up. Oil warms up VERY slowly with no load on the engine and your tranny/diff aren't warming up either. It explicitly says in the owner manual to drive once the engine has been started and has said that for the last few generation 3-series'.

[Thavash]

My oil reading experience - at about 16 000kms the warning light would go off and the oil reader would show +1. Then sometimes when I checked it would show that it was still fine , sometimes a quarter and sometimes even half on the "bar" reading. So I suspected that the sensor was not getting an accurate reading , and I just kept on driving the car. Eventually , a few weeks later , it would constantly show "+1" and I then decided to go to the dealer - they added a litre for free - covered under motorplan

[DozyDriver]

Similar with me. The car is now at 15,000km and the warning sometimes comes up. When I interrogate the system it advises to add one litre. Especially in the mornings when it is cool outside.

Later in the day - when the weather and engine are warmer - the gauge can read 1/4 above min or even 1/2 above min. So I'm not taking any action.....yet.

[canuck2]

It is scary to have to rely on electronics for the oil level given BMW's history with "sensors". Sure would be nice to have an old fashion way of checking it as a back-up..........hope this doesn't turn out to be the achilles heel.......

so when will they be coming out with the dipstick retro fit Did someone already post that in the DIY section

[obLu]

If I remember right, Porsche started the electronic oil read way back in the 964. Because they've always had a very specific routine you have to follow to correctly read the oil level in a porsche engine. But they always had a dipstick so that you could do the procedure manually. I'm sure BMW is just copying technology so they can look cool ... Germans love gadgets and Hasslehoff.

The new motors aren't dry sump are they? Then I could see a dipstick being confusing for the general public.

[Hitman999]

I have 4000 miles on my car now and the oil level is showing Max. My worry is that if there is a bug and it keeps saying Max when its not!

[Compos Mentis]

Originally Posted by wac77

Something similar happened to me. At 2000 miles or so, the sensor showed MIN and said add a quart. I did. A day later, after briefly showing 1/4 above MIN, the sensor showed MIN again. I didn't add any more oil. Instead, I took the car to the dealer, they made some SW reset, and it's showing MAX ever since. I guess you cannot really trust the sensor for a couple of days after you add oil!

I was on the fence on the lack of a dipstick, but now I know it's a bad idea.

I have about 2000 miles and the low oil alarm just came on. I was tempted to just go get some oil, rather than drive all the way to the dealer. I'll make an appointment.

It could be convenient to just look at the electronic oil level reading, but now that it's unreliable, I'm stuck, without a dipstick.

I read somewhere that BMWs used to have a vacuum guage or some such. BMW apparently got so many complaints from people comparing notes and getting different readings that they decided to eliminate it. Maybe it's the same with the temp guage - and maybe now they think that people can't reliably read a dipstick?

[will1z]

Originally Posted by shack

I'm beginning to think it was a *dipstick* who thought up the engine in which you can only check the oil electronically via the BC. YGBSM.... :mad:

Who cares.

If the car says it wants oil, give it oil.

If it is wrong and something bad happens, oh well, they will fix it.

Next.

Will

[e90driver]

I've added 1.5 quarts in 13k miles and mine is at MAX. I never added more than a 1/2 quart at a time, then I would drive for a day to see if it came up to max, it did every time. It never indicated MAX until at least 20-30 miles of driving- I had been told by my SA to add oil in this manner. Also, my SA has provided me with BMW oil whenever I asked.

[billgti]

Originally Posted by shack

While we're at it, my other peeve is no temp gauge. When it's 30 below here in Canada I always let my E46 temp guage come off the cold peg before I would drive it. Now it's all guesswork with E91 - currently warming up 1 min for every 10 degrees below zero.

I'd much rather have a temp gauge than that wildly swinging fuel consumption gauge which doesn't change anyone's driving habits...

u are subjecting your engine to much more wear and tear by "warming it up". oil only warms up when the engine is under load, i.e. driving it slowly. i don't know of any new car today that still needs a "warm up" before driving.

[ward]

Originally Posted by obLu

If I remember right, Porsche started the electronic oil read way back in the 964. Because they've always had a very specific routine you have to follow to correctly read the oil level in a porsche engine. But they always had a dipstick so that you could do the procedure manually. I'm sure BMW is just copying technology so they can look cool ... Germans love gadgets and Hasslehoff.

The new motors aren't dry sump are they? Then I could see a dipstick being confusing for the general public.

wet sump on these guys

I think the M5 motor is dry sump though.

Porsche is killing the dipstick too, boxsters cayman and 911 don't have dipsticks anymore either, darn that david hasslehoff