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      11-15-2007, 02:43 PM   #485
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In my opinion bleeding is only good to accelerate oil flow and warm the engine.
Even if you drive normally the noise will go away, it will just take longer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i_Danny View Post
Just to clarify, if you bleed the engine every time you hear the tick, are you preventing damage?

I have 2 335i's (e90 with 13k miles, e92 with 500 miles) and both tick only when cold. The e90 ticks a bit longer. The e92 ticks for only a few seconds at start and never again until the engine cools and the oil drains i guess.
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      11-15-2007, 04:15 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
Did you notice any-thing different after head replacement (besides the lack of the irritating noise)?
The only thing different I noticed is at time when you first run the engine and it's cold it will run a little rougher for about 15 secs then it smoothes itself out, I can't remember if it was there earlier, but not a bother to me since I warm it up for a few minuts either way.
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      11-15-2007, 06:44 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
Autohaus, which one did you go to?
Town and Country
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      11-15-2007, 09:43 PM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i_Danny View Post
Just to clarify, if you bleed the engine every time you hear the tick, are you preventing damage?

I have 2 335i's (e90 with 13k miles, e92 with 500 miles) and both tick only when cold. The e90 ticks a bit longer. The e92 ticks for only a few seconds at start and never again until the engine cools and the oil drains i guess.
335's/N54 ... interesting. Before we even begin a few questions if you donít mind. Did you check your oil level and did you change it after break in? (I am asking because it helped me. I heard a somewhat close to a ticking sound with my 335 before oil change. It was certainly a lifter noise but was not exactly the same as my 325/N52.)
Did you listen to the sound clip I posted in this thread early?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=46

Does it sound the same? If you do hear metal on metal ticking sound (not a normal higher pitched sound) what you most likely have is one or more lifters that is out of spec (seems to happened often enough). This is not anywhere near as bad as ticking sound in N52 engine. It is a fairly simple repair to replace bad lifters and I would recommend to do so without waiting for too long as it can ruin the cam and etc.

And to answer your questions:
Bleeding, engine braking, spirited driving do help to keep ticking at bay for a short time but they donít fix the problem. Youíll be arriving at the same destination (damage) only slower.
For E92 -- few seconds at start I would not worry about if it is not getting worse.

Please keep us posted.

PS BTW When I heard ticking in my 335 it was more pronounced when cold but it did not totally disappear after engine was fully warmed. If you open your hood and listen carefully you might hear it too. Anyway that was my experience.
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      11-17-2007, 11:18 PM   #489
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This quote from http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish...nter_960.shtml

"The N52’s capacity-controlled oil pump works in a similar manner. By determining the engine’s actual lubrication needs based on current temperature and pressure, the pump provides only as much oil as is required by conditions. In contrast, a typical oil pump delivers a high quantity of oil and bypasses the unneeded oil back to the sump. This unneeded amount can be as much as 80% of what is pumped. The N52’s oil pump thereby consumes nearly 3 horsepower less than a conventional oil pump."

Makes me wonder if their high tech aproach is starving the engine of oil when it repeatedly does short trips. Maybe throwing a lot of oil at the valves robs power but saves the head.

Maybe that is why the recommended 3500 "idle" - get oil to parts that need it by bypassing the "capacity-control".

Just a thought
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      11-18-2007, 10:36 AM   #490
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Where does it say 3500 "idle" ?
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      11-18-2007, 03:22 PM   #491
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Sorry - the "idle" was my stab at sarcasm. Somewhere in this long post someone memtioned that their dealer had recommended revving the engine at 3500 rpm for 5 minutes before driving to elimainate the tick.
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      11-18-2007, 06:03 PM   #492
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lol.

I got similiar quote from my dealer. "I noise goes away when you rev for few minutes, it means there is no problem with it". Even my wife said it's not right and she is completely non technical and usually thinks the noises are mostly in my head.

The thing I noticed is if I drive in manual mode and keep in low gears there is no noise on the next time I start the car.
Regardless, revving the engine can't be given as a solution to any engine problem.
I was not sure whether to cry or to lauph when I heard assistant manager saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscartheclimber View Post
Sorry - the "idle" was my stab at sarcasm. Somewhere in this long post someone memtioned that their dealer had recommended revving the engine at 3500 rpm for 5 minutes before driving to elimainate the tick.
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      11-19-2007, 01:33 PM   #493
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I am not suggesting this for DIY but you might find this an interesting read.

From BMW Tech.

Ticking noise from Engine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First,I would like to recommend everyone to purchase a mechanics stethoscope.Noises generally travels and the likely source may not always be your case.By using a stethoscope and listening to suspected components or sources,wherever noise is loudest means you have found the soure.They are relatively cheap and can be used in many different applications.

*Wheel bearing noise - if a particular wheel is suspected one would simply verify this by spinning the wheel while listening with the stethoscope.
*Screeching noise when starting engine cold or all the time - you can eliminate all the possibiities by checking pulleys and everything the belt drives,the loudest would be then the culprit.
*mechanical components that switches on/off - water valves typically gets stuck and you get warm air with A/C on at center vent of passenger side for example.Without a diagnostic tester,one would simply listen for a click when snowflake button (A/C) is pushed on/off.
There are so much more applications I use mine,these listed are what came to mind.
Having said that,on to the ticking noise..........................

We have a BMW motor with hydraulic lifters and a ticking noise is present.We changed the oil and filled to correct level but ticking is still present.Using your stethoscope,point it to the suspected areas.Do not exclude the chain tensioner located just above the A/C compressor then move upwards to the VANOS and the areas around it.If you find that the noise is coming from under the valve cover,BMW recommends a bleeding procedure for hydraulic lifters.

Bleeding procedure for hydraulic lifters :

Check oil level - correct if necessary.

Let engine idle at operating temperature with the hood open to verify valve train tapping / rattling noise.

If a tapping / rattling noise can be heard from the valve train, run the engine for 3 minutes without load at approximately 2,500 to 3,000 rpm (bleeding procedure).

Then with the engine at idle listen for valve train noises again.

Note: Only listen for noises when the engine has reached minimum oil pressure, i.e. after a waiting period (at idle) of approximately 15 - 30 seconds

If the tapping / rattling noises can still be heard, the bleeding procedure must be repeated (run the engine for 3 minutes at 2,500 - 3,000 rpm).If necessary, repeat this procedure up to five times.

If the tapping / rattling noises can still be heard, the bleeding procedure must be performed one final time for approximately 15 minutes.

****WAIT***** BEFORE YOU CARRY OUT THIS PART************
Using the stethoscope,figure out what cylinder(s) are most likely the source.Point the stethoscope around where the intake manifold is bolted for intake valves,and at the exhaust area.Point at every cylinder and then follow the next steps.

If the noise is still coming from an individual HVA element after performing the above Hydraulic Lifters (HVA) Bleeding Procedure the suspected element(s) can be isolated as follows:

Allow engine to cool.

Remove valve cover.

Do what is neccessary to gain access to the main engine pulley to turn the motor manually.

Turn the engine over (normal direction of rotation/clockwise) until the camshaft lobe of the hydraulic lifter element to be checked is pointing away from the HVA element. (engine valve completely closed).

Apply a small force to the lifter to see if it can be pushed down.Use soft/non damaging tool to push down on it.Wood/wedge/plastic materials preferred.

If it seems like it was spring loaded,you have already eliminated the possibility of air being trapped by performing the bleeding procedure.The lifter(s) are obviously bad and needs replacing.

A binding hydraulic lifter typically creates misfire faults during "warm up" phase.I would not change the viscosity of the oil.Whatever the owners manual suggests,stick to it.Changing it now may cause more harm/damage or contamination.

****THIS POST may very well be applicable to MISFIRE faults during warm up phase.

If still inconclusive,I would perform a CYLINDER LEAKDOWN/leakage test.That way I would be able to tell wether a valve is slightly bent/not properly seated/worn guides/etc...

I HOPE THESE STEPS HELPS EVERYONE WITH AN ISSUE SUCH AS THIS.I HOPE FOR NOTHING MAJOR SUCH AS REQUIRING REPLACEMENT OF VANOS OR ANY LIFTERS.IT IS NOT A DO IT YOURSELF REPAIR,FOR IT REQUIRES SPECIAL TOOLS.
setting engine/cam timing tools
VANOS timing tools
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      11-19-2007, 02:22 PM   #494
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I have a simple fix - running engine between 2500 - 3000 rpm 24x7 365 days a year.
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      11-19-2007, 05:09 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
I have a simple fix - running engine between 2500 - 3000 rpm 24x7 365 days a year.
Can you make a DIY?
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      11-19-2007, 06:01 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
I have a simple fix - running engine between 2500 - 3000 rpm 24x7 365 days a year.
let me guess ... brain surgeon?
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      11-19-2007, 09:28 PM   #497
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No, wood cutter

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Originally Posted by trickydisco View Post
let me guess ... brain surgeon?
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      11-19-2007, 10:30 PM   #498
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I have a better solution that won't strain an engine by revving it for a few minutes at a cold start - turn the radio up.

Dealers are doing quite a few head replacement these days

Mine was completed last week. This weekend I noticed a vibration in the seat while waiting at a light. Today it was much more noticeable - come to a stop at a light, a couple of seconds after stopping the vibrations start - kind of like your phone in vibrate mode. It transmits through the floor, the seat, steering, even the arm rest on the door.

My wife thought I was nuts but now she feels it too.

It also sounds like the idle is rough, but the tach doesn't move from the 700 position.

It could just be part of the break-in but seems odd to me as the car was smooth from day one. I was afraid of having them open a low mileage engine and mess with the internals.

So unless you feel lucky maybe it is better to wait for a better fix.
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      11-20-2007, 12:31 AM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscartheclimber View Post
I have a better solution that won't strain an engine by revving it for a few minutes at a cold start - turn the radio up.

Dealers are doing quite a few head replacement these days

Mine was completed last week. This weekend I noticed a vibration in the seat while waiting at a light. Today it was much more noticeable - come to a stop at a light, a couple of seconds after stopping the vibrations start - kind of like your phone in vibrate mode. It transmits through the floor, the seat, steering, even the arm rest on the door.

My wife thought I was nuts but now she feels it too.

It also sounds like the idle is rough, but the tach doesn't move from the 700 position.

It could just be part of the break-in but seems odd to me as the car was smooth from day one. I was afraid of having them open a low mileage engine and mess with the internals.

So unless you feel lucky maybe it is better to wait for a better fix.
Sure, the radio works for us inside the car, but when I'm driving around campus, 24,000 students can hear my car. Not really the solution I'm looking for.

I assume you're planning on taking your car back to the dealer for the vibration? That can't be good.
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      11-20-2007, 06:19 AM   #500
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a bmw REP yesterday said this is normal for a magnesuim engine.
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      11-20-2007, 09:00 AM   #501
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Ask him to explain people getting cylinder head replaced. Is that a standard procedure for normal fully functional engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe View Post
a bmw REP yesterday said this is normal for a magnesuim engine.
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      11-20-2007, 11:32 AM   #502
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a bmw REP yesterday said this is normal for a magnesuim engine.
Thats rediculous. Its almost like they know something's wrong, but they don't know how to fix it, so they try to pass it off as 'normal.' Any tard can tell its not a normal sound.
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      11-20-2007, 04:12 PM   #503
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started my e92 335i tonight (after 5 days of it sitting outside in cold weather) as my friend was getting in the car he said "why does it sound like one of your lifters is ticking" it was a really faint noise very similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faVCDsPKXlo I could not hear it from inside the cabin, only when I put the window down. The noise went away quickly though and has yet to come back tonight. I have tried starting my a second time after letting it cool for several hours and have not heard the noise again. My car is brand new and only has 85 miles on it! Have we come to a conclusion about it being normal to tick when cold?
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      11-20-2007, 04:19 PM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamando View Post
started my e92 335i tonight (after 5 days of it sitting outside in cold weather) as my friend was getting in the car he said "why does it sound like one of your lifters is ticking" it was a really faint noise very similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faVCDsPKXlo I could not hear it from inside the cabin, only when I put the window down. The noise went away quickly though and has yet to come back tonight. I have tried starting my a second time after letting it cool for several hours and have not heard the noise again. My car is brand new and only has 85 miles on it! Have we come to a conclusion about it being normal to tick when cold?
My car has 1k miles on it now and it still there but very very very faint
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      11-20-2007, 07:36 PM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
Sure, the radio works for us inside the car, but when I'm driving around campus, 24,000 students can hear my car. Not really the solution I'm looking for.
I know it isn't the solution you're looking for but try one of those mega steroes where the bass is so strong that everything within 100' vibrates. That should do it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
I assume you're planning on taking your car back to the dealer for the vibration? That can't be good.
BMWNA will schedule an appointment with their service rep next week, but since the vibration is intermittent and I have yet to find a pattern I doubt it will be present when he checks the car out. Or he'll just use the standard "it's normal" answer.

I have to say that since this problem appears to be so widespread BMW stands to piss off a lot of customers. Profits are up with the E90 release, but they could pay a log term price if they fail to adequately take care of the issue. I don't see it resolving itself.

I'm guessing that a lot of the first E90 will be coming off 36 month leases starting next year (leasing is big in S. Florida). How will the dealers sell these still TICKING previously owned vehicles. As a used car buyer I wouldn't accept the "its normal" answer b/c a used car salesman tells me so. Will our resale values drop as a result?
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      11-21-2007, 12:57 AM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamando View Post
started my e92 335i tonight (after 5 days of it sitting outside in cold weather) as my friend was getting in the car he said "why does it sound like one of your lifters is ticking" it was a really faint noise very similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faVCDsPKXlo I could not hear it from inside the cabin, only when I put the window down. The noise went away quickly though and has yet to come back tonight. I have tried starting my a second time after letting it cool for several hours and have not heard the noise again. My car is brand new and only has 85 miles on it! Have we come to a conclusion about it being normal to tick when cold?
You call this "Faint"? But if the noise disappeared completely and not coming back you probably have nothing to worry about. Oil was drained out after 5 days therefore the lifter noise. On another hand according to BMW engine is designed to keep oil from draining so it should not be happening, yet according to BMW dealer they will tell you "it is normal" -- go figure. Also, keep in mind it is at the very beginning of braking in process and most likely it will disappear once break in is over. Anyway if it is not getting worse I would not worry about it. You can try the following and see if it helps. Let the car warm up (over 200), go into manual mode 2nd or 3rd gear, accelerate fairly quickly from 2200-2500RPM to 3500-3700RPM than quickly drop back (engine brake) to 2000RPM. You can repeat this several times. Let the car cool down and you can do it again. This will help to get oil cycled properly and help to settle parts inside your engine.

You've got a beautiful fully loaded car with a brand new smell still there go and enjoy it. And even if it is a bad lifter it is not such a big deal to fix it.
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